Attempting to identify the helmets used in the Fly Formula test

Juck
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Juck
Edited Date/Time 10/25/2021 4:01pm
So a few months ago I got really interested in helmet safety and after doing some research I wanted to try and figure out the results of the Fly Formula study. I got around to doing it and it was a lot harder than I thought it would be, this took me a while and I’m not very confident in a few answers, but this is the best that I could come up with. For this I am assuming the helmets are all the Snell versions (if applicable), as they appear to be too heavy to all be ECE and there wouldn’t be much point listing the weights if they are a mix of the Snell and ECE versions. The results are also assuming all the helmets are a size medium, as JT said in a thread a couple of years ago, he was almost positive all the helmets were size mediums.



There’s probably a lot wrong with this list but this is the best I could come up with based on the listed weights of the helmets, a lot of which are very hard to get correct info on. I also spent too much time on this just to delete it lol.

For the helmet weights if the manufacturer listed the weight themselves and I could find it then that is the weight I went with, if not then I looked up the weight from as many sources as I could find and either went with the most reliable one, the most frequent answer or the average answer depending on the sources, frequency of answers and range of answers.

There are probably even some helmets in here that weren’t even used in the test, also it wasn’t possible to come across a reliable answer as to what the weight of the Fox helmet is but I put it in anyway because surely they would’ve tested the Fox helmet. I also struggle to believe that the Bell Moto 9 Flex scored that low, but with all the weights of the helmets that’s really the only spot it fit in. They also may have tested the 6D ATR-1, but I couldn’t find a spot for it, except for where I put the Bell but then there wouldn’t be a spot for the Bell and I figured it was more likely they tested Bell’s and 6D’s premium options rather than just both of 6D’s helmets, JT also said in the same thread mentioned earlier that everyone’s newest helmet was used so that would suggest that only the latest model helmet from each manufacturer was used. Anyway this test was done 2 years ago and it’s not the end all be all of helmet tests but if anyone still cares about this test then if you have suggestions as to what I got wrong then let me know.

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aeffertz
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aeffertz 10/23/2021 6:20pm
10/23/2021 6:20pm
Shame they don’t just provide the results for us. Makes me wonder if the testing was made to favor their helmet and they’re afraid of legal action.

Disclaimer: I think the new Fly helmet is one of the best moto helmets on the market right now but the lack of transparency in the results leaves room for speculation.
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Juck
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Juck 10/23/2021 6:35pm
10/23/2021 6:35pm
aeffertz wrote:
Shame they don’t just provide the results for us. Makes me wonder if the testing was made to favor their helmet and they’re afraid of legal...
Shame they don’t just provide the results for us. Makes me wonder if the testing was made to favor their helmet and they’re afraid of legal action.

Disclaimer: I think the new Fly helmet is one of the best moto helmets on the market right now but the lack of transparency in the results leaves room for speculation.
I really wish they would just release the data or at least just say why they won't. Could be because the testing could be favoured towards them, could be they're concerned about facing legal action, but I think the most likely answer is they just don't want to stir up any controversy, maybe mixed with the possibility they did favour the testing towards themselves with the drop speeds.

That said if someone asked me what I thought the most protective mx helmet is I would probably say the Formula, and I would own one already if it fit my head shape.
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wrc777
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wrc777 10/24/2021 7:22am
10/24/2021 7:22am
I thought they tested the Alpinestars.
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Juck
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Juck 10/24/2021 8:31am
10/24/2021 8:31am
wrc777 wrote:
I thought they tested the Alpinestars.
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen that it weighs 1240g for the ECE version and 1340g for the DOT version. So it's probably in here somewhere. Guess I'll just start again lol

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tek14
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tek14 10/24/2021 8:39am
10/24/2021 8:39am
wrc777 wrote:
I thought they tested the Alpinestars.
Juck wrote:
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen...
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen that it weighs 1240g for the ECE version and 1340g for the DOT version. So it's probably in here somewhere. Guess I'll just start again lol
Its probably on left side of Formula on chart.
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Juck
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Juck 10/24/2021 9:51am
10/24/2021 9:51am
wrc777 wrote:
I thought they tested the Alpinestars.
Juck wrote:
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen...
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen that it weighs 1240g for the ECE version and 1340g for the DOT version. So it's probably in here somewhere. Guess I'll just start again lol
tek14 wrote:
Its probably on left side of Formula on chart.
What?
vansnxtweek489 10/24/2021 10:10am
10/24/2021 10:10am
Juck wrote:
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen...
That's what I initially thought but I thought it weighed 1280g so it would've been too light, however I've just gone on Alpinestars' website and seen that it weighs 1240g for the ECE version and 1340g for the DOT version. So it's probably in here somewhere. Guess I'll just start again lol
tek14 wrote:
Its probably on left side of Formula on chart.
Juck wrote:
What?
I think he's saying it would have beat out the Fly so that's why its not listed, haha. Just my guess.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 10/24/2021 11:08am
10/24/2021 11:08am
If this test was not done completely independently by a third party - throw it all out
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mx510
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mx510 10/24/2021 5:33pm
10/24/2021 5:33pm
gt80rider wrote:
If this test was not done completely independently by a third party - throw it all out
Do you think Fly racing has the testing capabilities to test these on their own?
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soggy 10/24/2021 6:09pm
10/24/2021 6:09pm
gt80rider wrote:
If this test was not done completely independently by a third party - throw it all out
mx510 wrote:
Do you think Fly racing has the testing capabilities to test these on their own?
Keywords here are “completely independent”
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Sjacobs83 10/24/2021 8:34pm
10/24/2021 8:34pm
I know Ping mentioned a few times on different episodes of the WTS that TLD had purchased all the helmets and sent them all for independent testing and he said he was going to share the results but never did. I'd really like to see those results myself but I remember him saying numerous times that many of the top brands that people consider to be the safest were way down the list which could explain the Shoei, Arai and Bell results on this test also.
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Juck
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Juck 10/25/2021 12:13am
10/25/2021 12:13am
Sjacobs83 wrote:
I know Ping mentioned a few times on different episodes of the WTS that TLD had purchased all the helmets and sent them all for independent...
I know Ping mentioned a few times on different episodes of the WTS that TLD had purchased all the helmets and sent them all for independent testing and he said he was going to share the results but never did. I'd really like to see those results myself but I remember him saying numerous times that many of the top brands that people consider to be the safest were way down the list which could explain the Shoei, Arai and Bell results on this test also.
I'm not 100% sure but I think he said something about the TLD, Bell and Fox helmets all being close to each other at the top, and I think he might've actually been alluding to 6D being one that scored poor, along with likely the Shoei and Arai. However without the results being released we can't be sure.

I've read conflicting things about the 6D helmets and out of all the helmets the 6D is the one I'd like to know the results for the most. This test possibly shows that the 6D scored well but we can't know for sure as the helmets aren't and can only make educated guesses. Same goes for what Ping has been saying about the TLD tests and to me it sounds like he's been alluding to the 6D not scoring well. I read a study comparing to 6D technology to MIPS in bicycle helmets that I can't find at the moment but the study showed that MIPS was better, however 6D also won that grant from the NFL and you'd think the NFL would be the best indicator of quality with all the money they can afford to throw around, but the technology may not translate the same to motocross as it does to football. Who knows. Too much confusion surrounding helmet safety as it seems like there's lots of people doing tests but no one wants to release their results. Except for this one: https://crash.org.au/ratings.php

Which doesn't seem perfect as the testing criteria is designed for road helmets and most of the helmets are outdated but afaik this is the best data available. Plus it's actually independent.
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Crash217
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Crash217 10/25/2021 5:36am
10/25/2021 5:36am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2021 5:40am
One big thing I took away from my years in the journalism program in college was that you can make any data say just about anything you want it to say. In fact, that was the first thing out of my professors mouth on the first day in a 4000 level statistics class I had to take. (stat4 is the devil btw)

If a company advertises a huge improvement over the competition, start looking for independent research data to verify their claim.

I'm not saying FLY/WPS is lying. In fact, I think their helmets have been consistently great in their price point range for many years. But, they are in the business of selling you product, so a little research can go a long way towards getting a bigger picture of the information being presented, to help you make decisions. (And that last sentence goes for everything in this weird world we live in, not just advertising).

There are some helmets, in that weight class, missing from this list...

Edit, typos.
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Juck 10/25/2021 7:19am
10/25/2021 7:19am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2021 7:24am
Crash217 wrote:
One big thing I took away from my years in the journalism program in college was that you can make any data say just about anything...
One big thing I took away from my years in the journalism program in college was that you can make any data say just about anything you want it to say. In fact, that was the first thing out of my professors mouth on the first day in a 4000 level statistics class I had to take. (stat4 is the devil btw)

If a company advertises a huge improvement over the competition, start looking for independent research data to verify their claim.

I'm not saying FLY/WPS is lying. In fact, I think their helmets have been consistently great in their price point range for many years. But, they are in the business of selling you product, so a little research can go a long way towards getting a bigger picture of the information being presented, to help you make decisions. (And that last sentence goes for everything in this weird world we live in, not just advertising).

There are some helmets, in that weight class, missing from this list...

Edit, typos.
Yeah I'm not treating this test as gospel, I just really want to know the results. I'll add though that I doubt Fly, or any company in the moto industry really that isn't owned by a bigger soulless company just looking for profits are really trying that hard to sell products that they would egregiously manipulate data on a safety equipment test just for profit. You can think that's a naive take and it very well may be, but in my opinion moto is not an industry you go into if you want to make money, it's one you enter out of passion. Apparently Fly spent over $1,000,000 developing the Formula helmet and they probably aren't going to make that money back, they just did it because they wanted to have the safest helmet possible.

As for the missing helmets, I would guess they didn't include the Airoh as as far as I'm aware it's not very available in the US. As for the Astars, it might be in there, if it's not then I don't know why it isn't as for the Leatt and any possible others I can't think of right now, I have no idea why they weren't included
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Wilson116
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Wilson116 10/25/2021 10:14am
10/25/2021 10:14am
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
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ML512
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ML512 10/25/2021 10:21am
10/25/2021 10:21am
Wilson116 wrote:
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual...
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
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soggy
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soggy 10/25/2021 10:24am
10/25/2021 10:24am
Wilson116 wrote:
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual...
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
100%. I would love to see but you’ll never see a magazine or entity go out on that limb and risk alienating a relationship with ad advertiser. The industry is just too much of a bro show. Wish moto had something like blister gear review has for skiing. Keefer I think is trying but it’s not quite there.
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Timo 10/25/2021 10:24am
10/25/2021 10:24am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2021 10:25am
Wilson116 wrote:
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual...
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
ML512 wrote:
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do...
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
You'd think the companies would supply the helmets. I mean, Suzuki still gives everyone a test bike even though they know they're coming in last...
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Sjacobs83 10/25/2021 10:27am
10/25/2021 10:27am
Juck wrote:
I'm not 100% sure but I think he said something about the TLD, Bell and Fox helmets all being close to each other at the top...
I'm not 100% sure but I think he said something about the TLD, Bell and Fox helmets all being close to each other at the top, and I think he might've actually been alluding to 6D being one that scored poor, along with likely the Shoei and Arai. However without the results being released we can't be sure.

I've read conflicting things about the 6D helmets and out of all the helmets the 6D is the one I'd like to know the results for the most. This test possibly shows that the 6D scored well but we can't know for sure as the helmets aren't and can only make educated guesses. Same goes for what Ping has been saying about the TLD tests and to me it sounds like he's been alluding to the 6D not scoring well. I read a study comparing to 6D technology to MIPS in bicycle helmets that I can't find at the moment but the study showed that MIPS was better, however 6D also won that grant from the NFL and you'd think the NFL would be the best indicator of quality with all the money they can afford to throw around, but the technology may not translate the same to motocross as it does to football. Who knows. Too much confusion surrounding helmet safety as it seems like there's lots of people doing tests but no one wants to release their results. Except for this one: https://crash.org.au/ratings.php

Which doesn't seem perfect as the testing criteria is designed for road helmets and most of the helmets are outdated but afaik this is the best data available. Plus it's actually independent.
I believe it was the show with Doc Bodnar there was some comments made about Alpinestars also being one of the best and safest helmets available. I was originally looking at a Bell Moto 9 Flex but ended up with an Astars S-M8 and I'm extremely happy with it. Fortunately haven't had to test it out yet though.
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Wilson116
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Wilson116 10/25/2021 10:34am
10/25/2021 10:34am
Wilson116 wrote:
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual...
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
ML512 wrote:
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do...
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it is to get real info on helmets. For example are any of the TLD Helmets better then the $189 Leatt? I would love to see them compared.
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ML512
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ML512 10/25/2021 10:35am
10/25/2021 10:35am
Wilson116 wrote:
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual...
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
ML512 wrote:
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do...
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
Timo wrote:
You'd think the companies would supply the helmets. I mean, Suzuki still gives everyone a test bike even though they know they're coming in last...
No way they will. And I think we’d need something like 5 of each for the test? And Suzuki quit giving test bikes out for Shootout this year.
ML512
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ML512 10/25/2021 10:44am
10/25/2021 10:44am
Wilson116 wrote:
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual...
We get yet another 450 shootout with a bunch of bikes that are the same as last years but cant get a helmet shootout with actual test and rankings. I would have much rather seen a helmet shootout.
ML512 wrote:
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do...
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
Wilson116 wrote:
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it...
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it is to get real info on helmets. For example are any of the TLD Helmets better then the $189 Leatt? I would love to see them compared.
I’d enjoy to do it as well. I just don’t know how I can justify spending something upwards of $35,000 on one feature. It’s. Something I’m always pondering
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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 10/25/2021 10:47am
10/25/2021 10:47am
Thanks for your efforts in trying to match helmets to the ratings. Wish there was more transparency, but this is where we are today. From a marketing perspective, its kind of like in cycling where Trek/Bontrager obtained exclusive licensing for the wavecell technology, claiming game changing performance. Looking at Virginia Tech bike helmet data, it does well, but isn't even ranked higher than a Bontrager helmet with MIPS. I think one thing that can be concluded from VT's testing is that you cannot be highly ranked without some form of anti-rotation tech.

https://helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html
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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 10/25/2021 10:51am
10/25/2021 10:51am
ML512 wrote:
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do...
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
Wilson116 wrote:
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it...
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it is to get real info on helmets. For example are any of the TLD Helmets better then the $189 Leatt? I would love to see them compared.
ML512 wrote:
I’d enjoy to do it as well. I just don’t know how I can justify spending something upwards of $35,000 on one feature. It’s. Something I’m...
I’d enjoy to do it as well. I just don’t know how I can justify spending something upwards of $35,000 on one feature. It’s. Something I’m always pondering
Would be interesting to try and crowd-source funding or find some type of partnership/sponsorship. For example, NFL contributes funding towards helmet research, would the AMA, Feld, MXSports, etc. contribute? Caselli foundation?
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wrc777
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wrc777 10/25/2021 11:12am
10/25/2021 11:12am
Sjacobs83 wrote:
I believe it was the show with Doc Bodnar there was some comments made about Alpinestars also being one of the best and safest helmets available...
I believe it was the show with Doc Bodnar there was some comments made about Alpinestars also being one of the best and safest helmets available. I was originally looking at a Bell Moto 9 Flex but ended up with an Astars S-M8 and I'm extremely happy with it. Fortunately haven't had to test it out yet though.
What’s interesting about the Astars is it has mips, multi density foam, and size specific shells. On paper it is pretty basic compared to the 6d and fly. I have the m10 and the formula cc. I am not sure I like one more than the other but the fly is harder to get a drink tube in and out of while riding as the chin bar is really close to my mouth. My face stays a little cleaner in the fly and it fits a little better. However I am getting rust on the rivets (or whatever holds the straps in) on a 6 month old fly and the 18 month old astars doesn’t have that problem. They look like they may have come from the same factory too.
msp332
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msp332 10/25/2021 12:13pm
10/25/2021 12:13pm
Show the medical implications of finishing 2nd vs 7th in any given test. Without that, this is just advertising.

The new ECE 22.06 certification makes all this outdated. The certifications have the medical direction.
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ron727
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ron727 10/25/2021 12:28pm
10/25/2021 12:28pm
Sjacobs83 wrote:
I believe it was the show with Doc Bodnar there was some comments made about Alpinestars also being one of the best and safest helmets available...
I believe it was the show with Doc Bodnar there was some comments made about Alpinestars also being one of the best and safest helmets available. I was originally looking at a Bell Moto 9 Flex but ended up with an Astars S-M8 and I'm extremely happy with it. Fortunately haven't had to test it out yet though.
Oh, Doc Bodnar of the Alpinestars Mobile Medical Unit said that?
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Sjacobs83 10/25/2021 12:59pm
10/25/2021 12:59pm
ron727 wrote:
Oh, Doc Bodnar of the Alpinestars Mobile Medical Unit said that?
No that's not what I said, it's been a while and it might not have even been that show but whatever episode it was at least got me looking into those helmets. I ended up choosing the Astars helmet for a few reasons actually after doing my own research and honestly just trying on every helmet I could find in a 50 mile radius.
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cablecable 10/25/2021 1:42pm
10/25/2021 1:42pm
ML512 wrote:
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do...
I’d have to do more research into it but based off some rough discussions, getting the testing lab time and enough of each helmet to do all the tests would cost a pretty penny.
Wilson116 wrote:
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it...
And I did enjoy your shootout this year. But would still take a helmet shootout over a bike shootout at this point. Amazing how hard it is to get real info on helmets. For example are any of the TLD Helmets better then the $189 Leatt? I would love to see them compared.
ML512 wrote:
I’d enjoy to do it as well. I just don’t know how I can justify spending something upwards of $35,000 on one feature. It’s. Something I’m...
I’d enjoy to do it as well. I just don’t know how I can justify spending something upwards of $35,000 on one feature. It’s. Something I’m always pondering
Have you reached out to the Helmet Manufacturers and asked if they would give you 5 for a independent test? would show who backs there products and who doesn't. If half of them agreed would be a good start budget wise
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jordand20 10/25/2021 2:14pm
10/25/2021 2:14pm
Klim has F5 that's ECE only. It's significantly lighter than Formula. I think all mid-to-high end Leatt helmets are lighter, too. Airoh is lighter. Their choice of competition is carefully selected. Though, Fox helmets are boat anchors. Not sure why Fly has excluded them.

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