As Americans, we need to change our perspective (MXoN)

roninho
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10/1/2019 3:19pm
thepelican wrote:
300.000$ the cost of sending team usa to the MXON
https://mxvice.com/118776/insight-roger-decoster
roninho wrote:
I would think team gbr, team Nl and team belgium combined spend less then 300.000 when they beat the us at red bud
thepelican wrote:
They didn't spend 2 weeks training
Look It's clear that a race on another continent costs a lot of money, and i can also see why its hard to raise 300k.
Thing is it is not necessary to spend anything close to 300k to be competitive.
A bunch of euro teams went to the US, spend like a 5th of this 300k budget and finished in the top 5 beating.
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10/1/2019 5:33pm
Magiora Italy is back on the GP schedule next year. Hope the MXoN is back there in 2021. Im good if the MXoN never returns to the usa. We dont deserve it with all the hate towards the event and focus on SX. We have the mec and rbsr for the us fans lol
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RCMXracing
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10/1/2019 9:00pm
RCMXracing wrote:
This race should be held every 2 years. Trick is to not leave money on the table for promoters by skipping a year. Make it a...
This race should be held every 2 years. Trick is to not leave money on the table for promoters by skipping a year. Make it a longer weekend, have an all star amateur day, women's, former pro Vets, etc.
Racing the event every single year seems forced.
IMHO every 2 years would make it more special as the OP points out. (Good post BTW)

Edit: If the countries wanted to make changes they absolutely could. They hold the power. Suspect they would all rather race every other year.
roninho wrote:
And what makes you think "all would rather race every other year"? The GP riders are very very keen to race this event.
I said I suspected it. Do they really want to do this race every year? I KNOW that’s what all the riders say during interviews, even US riders where it’s well documented recently that they DON’T wish to be obligated to do this race. Some riders and teams. That is simply a fact.

Please inform us all how super pumped the GP riders are for this race... they pine away for this race every year? Yes it’s an honor (honour) to be chosen but it’s also an obligation.

I honestly want to know if you can back this up? Maybe there’s a whole different positive for an individual GP rider or team I’m not aware of? Sponsors? Money? Not being a dick here, I would really like to know if you have background info. Please share if you do.
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jemcee
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10/1/2019 11:32pm
RCMXracing wrote:
I said I suspected it. Do they really want to do this race every year? I KNOW that’s what all the riders say during interviews, even...
I said I suspected it. Do they really want to do this race every year? I KNOW that’s what all the riders say during interviews, even US riders where it’s well documented recently that they DON’T wish to be obligated to do this race. Some riders and teams. That is simply a fact.

Please inform us all how super pumped the GP riders are for this race... they pine away for this race every year? Yes it’s an honor (honour) to be chosen but it’s also an obligation.

I honestly want to know if you can back this up? Maybe there’s a whole different positive for an individual GP rider or team I’m not aware of? Sponsors? Money? Not being a dick here, I would really like to know if you have background info. Please share if you do.
"It's well documented recently that they DON'T wish to be obligated to do this race. Some riders and teams. That is simply a fact"
Dunno about that. What I hear is they'd absolutely love to do it it's just held at an awkward time for the US based riders!
Jason Anderson obviously really wanted to go, Zach Osborne obviously really wanted to go (and wants to go next year) Justin Cooper obviously wanted to go
I'm not sure how he can back it up considering you don't accept what they say in interviews..

Watch any video of the riders after the race to see what it means to them
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The Shop

Crossup
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10/2/2019 12:29am
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested based on those costs alone not to mention the distraction from their schedules.

I was thinking that they could take Osborne, Anderson, Cooper effort a step further.
1. Go through the selection of the 2020 US MXdN team now.

2. Start a fundraiser through Supercross and the Nationals events to pay for program.

3. The US Team could then prepare, strategize, and practice through the year and be more prepared for the event.

They could also get support from gear manufacturers by developing the US MXdN team gear early along with tshirts, hats, etc to sell to support the fans and the promote the overall program.
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OtotheB178
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10/2/2019 12:42am
Crossup wrote:
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested...
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested based on those costs alone not to mention the distraction from their schedules.

I was thinking that they could take Osborne, Anderson, Cooper effort a step further.
1. Go through the selection of the 2020 US MXdN team now.

2. Start a fundraiser through Supercross and the Nationals events to pay for program.

3. The US Team could then prepare, strategize, and practice through the year and be more prepared for the event.

They could also get support from gear manufacturers by developing the US MXdN team gear early along with tshirts, hats, etc to sell to support the fans and the promote the overall program.
That's a good idea if not for injuries, but as a whole why don't more countries do this?
Get replica kit with a percentage going to fund the team, casual wear etc.
I also think if it was pushed throughout the year the hype would be bigger as well. All good things!
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Fraser
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10/2/2019 12:59am
Crossup wrote:
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested...
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested based on those costs alone not to mention the distraction from their schedules.

I was thinking that they could take Osborne, Anderson, Cooper effort a step further.
1. Go through the selection of the 2020 US MXdN team now.

2. Start a fundraiser through Supercross and the Nationals events to pay for program.

3. The US Team could then prepare, strategize, and practice through the year and be more prepared for the event.

They could also get support from gear manufacturers by developing the US MXdN team gear early along with tshirts, hats, etc to sell to support the fans and the promote the overall program.
But they chose to spend $300k, its not a requirement of entry. Some of the team spent a month in Europe preparing for this, and the prep wasn't much help. The US team should consider a smarter, cheaper approach maybe in future?
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Crossup
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10/2/2019 1:23am
Fraser wrote:
But they chose to spend $300k, its not a requirement of entry. Some of the team spent a month in Europe preparing for this, and the...
But they chose to spend $300k, its not a requirement of entry. Some of the team spent a month in Europe preparing for this, and the prep wasn't much help. The US team should consider a smarter, cheaper approach maybe in future?
I think he was talking in round numbers regardless of what team goes.
dbk#2
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10/2/2019 1:45am
track was gnarly last weekend
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chump6784
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10/2/2019 2:08am
The US complaining about cost is ridiculous. Countries like Australia and New Zealand go every year and they are tiny compared to the US. Then the whole "they should pay is to go" bullshit, it's like the US think they are bigger than the event and are the major draw. No wonder its the US vs the world, everyone wants to stick it to the big mouth yanks
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Motofinne
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10/2/2019 2:26am Edited Date/Time 10/2/2019 2:40am
What a brilliant post from OP!
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10/2/2019 3:07am
Would be interesting to see the breakdown of the costs from the US team and say Team Brazil.
Both will have had to ship race bikes, riders and crew from across the Atlantic.
Essentially they should only need to send bikes, spares, 3 riders, 3 mechanics and a team manager.
The US will always be a team full of factory guys, so will have access to suspension and tyre and engine techs as it seemed Wilvo helped Cooper this year and the Euro Husky teams were obviously helping out Anderson and Osbourne.
Family and hangers on should/could be paid for from their own/riders pockets if they MUST go and if the federation can't budget for it. Hey, they could always stay at home for the weekend?
Did Monster pay for the month Team Fried spent on a months working holiday in Belgium or did Roger foot the costs from the federation? Pretty sure no other team have ever done a months specific training for this race, so although it was nice for them and good prep, it certainly wasn't 'essential' as long as the riders and fans didn't have unrealistic expectations that it would mean a win (it might of, but even if it was a hard pack track, a month dialling everything is never gonna guarantee anything results wise).
Just seems that because the US team and fans expect to win or at least challenge for it, that the prospect of just turning up and racing like all the other fly away countries, or rocking up on a lower budget with a smaller entourage yet still having better bikes and support than 90% of the smaller European countries doesn't seem an option...and certainly not an option for big name factory riders.
Would also be interested in the budget and scale of the bigger European teams that made the trip to Red Bud and how that compared to the US team last weekend.
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Ray_MXS
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10/2/2019 3:17am
Surely someone must have made a budget for this trip and when (or if) the presented the 300k number, why didnt people like "hell no" that and figured out a better way.

I mean yeah, they are factory riders but I´m pretty sure that IceOne Husqvarna could provide Jason and Zach bikes for the event and they could bring their own suspension if necessary and so could Kemea Yamaha for Cooper. They are all riders under the same manufacturers and if I was at Husqvarna HQ and had the option of either shipping bikes from the US to this event (who actually got shipped the other way in the first place) OR providing bikes that are already in area, I know what I would choose.

I know Sweden did something like this last year when all our three riders (Bengtsson, Gole and Östlund) all were on Yamahas, they made a deal with the Cycle Trader team to provide them with bikes, trailer and the whole shebang for the RedBud event. Pretty much every rider but the factory teams did something similar last year. Remember Searle picking up a stock Kawi at a local US dealer and racing the event with it?

It sure as hell didnt have to cost 300k
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RG1
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10/2/2019 4:01am
Crossup wrote:
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested...
Decoster said in the MXVice podcast that the MXdN costs the US contingent $300,000 for that one event. You cant have a lot of teams interested based on those costs alone not to mention the distraction from their schedules.

I was thinking that they could take Osborne, Anderson, Cooper effort a step further.
1. Go through the selection of the 2020 US MXdN team now.

2. Start a fundraiser through Supercross and the Nationals events to pay for program.

3. The US Team could then prepare, strategize, and practice through the year and be more prepared for the event.

They could also get support from gear manufacturers by developing the US MXdN team gear early along with tshirts, hats, etc to sell to support the fans and the promote the overall program.
Spending over a quarter of a million for 3 riders to compete in one event is absolutely ridiculous.
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Fraser
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10/2/2019 4:27am
TexasVet wrote:
Well, here's how I see it: Our "best riders' were not there because money is more important than anything else. And while your perspective is laudable...
Well, here's how I see it: Our "best riders' were not there because money is more important than anything else.

And while your perspective is laudable and credible, nothing could be further from reality. Every rider/country/

team relished putting the wood to the Americans. And always will. I look forward to the day we can repay in kind.
Fraser wrote:
" Every rider/country/team relished putting the wood to the Americans" A few years ago maybe. Not sure this view is that correct any more. I'm sure...
" Every rider/country/team relished putting the wood to the Americans"

A few years ago maybe. Not sure this view is that correct any more. I'm sure most countries were far more focused on trying to do the best they possibly could, trying to beat France and Holland. USA were realistically never a favourite for the win this year. The rubbish track and horrible conditions meant it was even more of a lottery than usual and luck played a big part.

USA need to send their best team and get back to winning before they're going to be the team everyone wants to beat once again. Right now the pressure and focus is off them (as far as the other teams anyway). Ideal time for a big comeback.

Also in one of the many other MXDN threads it was said that US riders can't ride sand tracks, but seeing how well they did in the most recent US MXGPs shows they're still as good as Europe's best. Well hang on, aren't Jacksonville and Glen Helen both sand tracks?
Glen Helen is far from a sand track, even Southwick. This is the mistake you made in Lommell and why Decoster got them over early. Look...
Glen Helen is far from a sand track, even Southwick. This is the mistake you made in Lommell and why Decoster got them over early. Look at Vallkenswaard, to the Dutch this is not far from a normal loam track. Definitely not what is known as sand in Europe.
Oh yeah, its FAR from a sand track..



Apart from all the sand obviously
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philG
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10/2/2019 4:28am
Its all the hangers on.. he said they needed 60 tickets... 60 people for a 3 rider team... . Unreal.
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10/2/2019 4:45am
Fraser wrote:
" Every rider/country/team relished putting the wood to the Americans" A few years ago maybe. Not sure this view is that correct any more. I'm sure...
" Every rider/country/team relished putting the wood to the Americans"

A few years ago maybe. Not sure this view is that correct any more. I'm sure most countries were far more focused on trying to do the best they possibly could, trying to beat France and Holland. USA were realistically never a favourite for the win this year. The rubbish track and horrible conditions meant it was even more of a lottery than usual and luck played a big part.

USA need to send their best team and get back to winning before they're going to be the team everyone wants to beat once again. Right now the pressure and focus is off them (as far as the other teams anyway). Ideal time for a big comeback.

Also in one of the many other MXDN threads it was said that US riders can't ride sand tracks, but seeing how well they did in the most recent US MXGPs shows they're still as good as Europe's best. Well hang on, aren't Jacksonville and Glen Helen both sand tracks?
Glen Helen is far from a sand track, even Southwick. This is the mistake you made in Lommell and why Decoster got them over early. Look...
Glen Helen is far from a sand track, even Southwick. This is the mistake you made in Lommell and why Decoster got them over early. Look at Vallkenswaard, to the Dutch this is not far from a normal loam track. Definitely not what is known as sand in Europe.
Fraser wrote:
Oh yeah, its FAR from a sand track.. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/02/377150/s1200_glen_helen.jpg[/img] Apart from all the sand obviously
Oh yeah, its FAR from a sand track..



Apart from all the sand obviously
I said compared to what the Dutch call sand and my statement is correct. Valkenswaard is far worse and still not a real sand to them. You sent sand riders to Lommel and they all got lapped including 2 national champions and it wasn't wet. Just saying.
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Fraser
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10/2/2019 9:43am
I said compared to what the Dutch call sand and my statement is correct. Valkenswaard is far worse and still not a real sand to them...
I said compared to what the Dutch call sand and my statement is correct. Valkenswaard is far worse and still not a real sand to them. You sent sand riders to Lommel and they all got lapped including 2 national champions and it wasn't wet. Just saying.
Not me- I sent Shaun, Nathan and Adam.

I'm questioning a post that said US riders cant do sand, but were better than the MXGP riders at the last two MXGPs. Not sure who you're arguing with? Wink
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roninho
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10/2/2019 10:51am
Would be interesting to see the breakdown of the costs from the US team and say Team Brazil. Both will have had to ship race bikes...
Would be interesting to see the breakdown of the costs from the US team and say Team Brazil.
Both will have had to ship race bikes, riders and crew from across the Atlantic.
Essentially they should only need to send bikes, spares, 3 riders, 3 mechanics and a team manager.
The US will always be a team full of factory guys, so will have access to suspension and tyre and engine techs as it seemed Wilvo helped Cooper this year and the Euro Husky teams were obviously helping out Anderson and Osbourne.
Family and hangers on should/could be paid for from their own/riders pockets if they MUST go and if the federation can't budget for it. Hey, they could always stay at home for the weekend?
Did Monster pay for the month Team Fried spent on a months working holiday in Belgium or did Roger foot the costs from the federation? Pretty sure no other team have ever done a months specific training for this race, so although it was nice for them and good prep, it certainly wasn't 'essential' as long as the riders and fans didn't have unrealistic expectations that it would mean a win (it might of, but even if it was a hard pack track, a month dialling everything is never gonna guarantee anything results wise).
Just seems that because the US team and fans expect to win or at least challenge for it, that the prospect of just turning up and racing like all the other fly away countries, or rocking up on a lower budget with a smaller entourage yet still having better bikes and support than 90% of the smaller European countries doesn't seem an option...and certainly not an option for big name factory riders.
Would also be interested in the budget and scale of the bigger European teams that made the trip to Red Bud and how that compared to the US team last weekend.
One of the brazilian riders rode a bike from a dutch amateur rider who rides the dutch masters and lives like 15 minutes from assen.
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roninho
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10/2/2019 11:02am
RCMXracing wrote:
This race should be held every 2 years. Trick is to not leave money on the table for promoters by skipping a year. Make it a...
This race should be held every 2 years. Trick is to not leave money on the table for promoters by skipping a year. Make it a longer weekend, have an all star amateur day, women's, former pro Vets, etc.
Racing the event every single year seems forced.
IMHO every 2 years would make it more special as the OP points out. (Good post BTW)

Edit: If the countries wanted to make changes they absolutely could. They hold the power. Suspect they would all rather race every other year.
roninho wrote:
And what makes you think "all would rather race every other year"? The GP riders are very very keen to race this event.
RCMXracing wrote:
I said I suspected it. Do they really want to do this race every year? I KNOW that’s what all the riders say during interviews, even...
I said I suspected it. Do they really want to do this race every year? I KNOW that’s what all the riders say during interviews, even US riders where it’s well documented recently that they DON’T wish to be obligated to do this race. Some riders and teams. That is simply a fact.

Please inform us all how super pumped the GP riders are for this race... they pine away for this race every year? Yes it’s an honor (honour) to be chosen but it’s also an obligation.

I honestly want to know if you can back this up? Maybe there’s a whole different positive for an individual GP rider or team I’m not aware of? Sponsors? Money? Not being a dick here, I would really like to know if you have background info. Please share if you do.
Shaun simpson changed his training programm to peak at lommel to increase his odds to be selected. Anstie eason had ended due to injury but he still tried to get into shape for the mxon. Vlaanderen is south african and had to fight roan to get into teamnl but he sure wanted to, gajser has nothing to win and no obligation but he is at the mxon, and i cant remember when a gp rider declined to race.

I am certain that eu federations would hate goin overseas every year due to costs, but as long as most events are in europe the gp riders seem to be in for the event
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10/2/2019 12:46pm
motogrady wrote:
I say melt down that big trophy. Make a bunch of small ones. Everyone gets a trophy, every year. No scoring. The riders get dressed up...
I say melt down that big trophy.
Make a bunch of small ones.
Everyone gets a trophy, every year.

No scoring. The riders get dressed up in their latest gear and kinda ride around for 30 minutes, 3 times.

Any rider, or team member, that vocally hurts the feelings of another rider, or team member, is banned for a period of time. Duration of penalty determined by WADA.

The winner will be determined by the largest number of women on their team, riders included.

Ties will be determined by which country provides the best day care at the track.

You guys gotta agree, that's a winning formula right there.
And we'll call it sarcastabike, and drink each others creamy goo, right?
TexasVet
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10/3/2019 6:11pm
Ray_MXS wrote:
Surely someone must have made a budget for this trip and when (or if) the presented the 300k number, why didnt people like "hell no" that...
Surely someone must have made a budget for this trip and when (or if) the presented the 300k number, why didnt people like "hell no" that and figured out a better way.

I mean yeah, they are factory riders but I´m pretty sure that IceOne Husqvarna could provide Jason and Zach bikes for the event and they could bring their own suspension if necessary and so could Kemea Yamaha for Cooper. They are all riders under the same manufacturers and if I was at Husqvarna HQ and had the option of either shipping bikes from the US to this event (who actually got shipped the other way in the first place) OR providing bikes that are already in area, I know what I would choose.

I know Sweden did something like this last year when all our three riders (Bengtsson, Gole and Östlund) all were on Yamahas, they made a deal with the Cycle Trader team to provide them with bikes, trailer and the whole shebang for the RedBud event. Pretty much every rider but the factory teams did something similar last year. Remember Searle picking up a stock Kawi at a local US dealer and racing the event with it?

It sure as hell didnt have to cost 300k
Yep.

Have Husky and Yamaha provide stock demos or(whatever) and have the riders carry their suspension. Even with first class airline tickets, you could do this for waayy less than $300k. $20k?

And for all you thumbs down guys....

The results would be about the same.

Flame on!
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Dropbear
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10/3/2019 8:20pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2019 8:20pm
I always wanted the US to be there. I’m from Oz and even bought the US fund raising t shirts in the early days when you hadn’t won a cracker. I wasn’t the only one, just wanted to see all the best guys on the track at the same time.
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kkawboy14
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10/4/2019 5:29am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2019 5:31am
6th place? Really?

It may have been a working vacation but I’ll bet that all 3 of those guys now think they made a bad business decision!
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newmann
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10/4/2019 6:41am
What cracks me up the most is that now, all of a sudden, the Vitard Brain Trust considers $300,000.00 a lot of money. Any other day of the week that number gets thrown around like pocket change in here as if it every rider wearing a set of goggles from whoever should be fetching that as a minimum. Too funny. Does the American Team fund the 87 hanger ons and man friends that seem to make the trek or has that line up diminished since we quit winning on a regular basis? Seems like there were a few times where there are 300k worth of Team USA jackets up on the podium. Laughing
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newmann
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10/4/2019 6:45am
philG wrote:
Its all the hangers on.. he said they needed 60 tickets... 60 people for a 3 rider team... . Unreal.
I see someone else mentioned all the hanger ons! LaughingLaughing that’s a whole lot of ego strokers
Thor34103
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10/4/2019 10:29am
Can’t be cheap for Team USA with 24 plus in Team USA jackets while other countries send 4 to 6. Assen has held a MXGP round the last two or three years and it doesn’t look much different from Lommel. The Charlotte MXGP’s weather on Friday killed the crowd and it was a miracle they even had a race from what a friend of mine said that was there on Friday and Saturday. It was a high speed under the lights MXGP race which was not the usual. Sad to hear the sore loser track comments come up yet again while funny to read about MXGP racers MXoN motivation supposedly lacking. Gautier Paulin puts in his best rides at MXoN, Max Anstie, Ken Roczen and Glenn Coldenhoff did the same on and off home turf.

My favorite line in this thread is MXoN really needs to be held at the greatest, established tracks around the world IMO. Great point. Hopefully MXoN will come to Red Bud some year and we will show them how it’s done!

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Drtbykr
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10/4/2019 10:55am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2019 3:56pm
Never say never, but I think it will be very hard for Americans to beat Europeans in soft conditions.

Frame flex, frame geometry can be modified over there I believe.

All the bikes probably feel like a steel frame.

At least u sent a team. Martha Martha

I can see why some don’t go from the US. MX is gnarly and your career can be over in a sniff.

And Johnny O beating Thorpe is tied with Magoo. A 125 massacre happened that day.

Maybe RV too.

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