Arm pump: a predominant issue for MotoGP™ riders

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5/6/2021 11:31 PM

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5/6/2021 11:58 PM

I know I wouldn’t have the arms to hang on to one of those motoGP steeds under full braking, that’s for sure.

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5/7/2021 12:31 AM

Those bikes are just getting faster and faster now so guys will have issues.

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5/7/2021 12:55 AM

tek14 wrote:

Those bikes are just getting faster and faster now so guys will have issues.

Petrucci mentioned that his Pramac Ducati is making 280 hp a few years ago. And what do they weigh 150-160kg??

I would be holding on for dear life too! shocked w00t

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5/7/2021 1:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/7/2021 1:30 AM

tek14 wrote:

Those bikes are just getting faster and faster now so guys will have issues.

VET176 wrote:

Petrucci mentioned that his Pramac Ducati is making 280 hp a few years ago. And what do they weigh 150-160kg??

I would be ...more

Zarco put in the record top speed at Qatar this year. 363 kph (225 mph) on the long straight, that is just mental.

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
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- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
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5/7/2021 1:48 AM

let's say that slightly holding rear brake (to anti-wheelie the bike) while accelerating out of corners isn't unheard practice in MotoGP...in conclusion there are some "herspers" hidden under the fairing.

I personally do get armpump watching the MotoGP races. Some of those guys are pretty decent on MX-bike also.Not MXGP level... but would be able to qualify for a local national championship given few months of proper practice.

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the ultimate MX renegade from the east shore of the big cold pond

5/7/2021 2:17 AM

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5/7/2021 2:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/7/2021 2:38 AM

Given that some people seems to get it really bad and others just don't I'm inclined to look towards genetic variability as the main contributor rather than just a technique issue. I personally dealt with diagnosed Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome in both my arms and legs and feel like I have a reasonable handle on the issue. During all my research I was left with the distinct impression that fascia release surgery never works in the long term, at best you might get a couple of years relief before issues flare up again. On top of that it is quite a risky surgery unless you get a surgeon who has performed it many times, there is a lot of precision required and any mistake can cost you feeling or control of your foot or hand.

I wanted a more permanent result so researched many other avenues. One that showed potential was a Dr in the US that was trialing a method of stretching the muscle fascia by injecting botox underneath the fascia. I was intrigued but the cost of flying to the states and undergoing that treatment long term was just too much, but I thought the idea of stretching the fascia was interesting. I dove down the rabbit hole again and found some interesting research by Camilla Nordin among others which indicated that it should be possible to increase fascia elasticity through supplementation of Methylsulfonylmethane, Collagen, and vitamin C. Although it's not directly stretching the fascia it should have a similar effect under muscle expansion conditions.

I started taking those supplements in high doses (among others) and committed to regular foam rolling, stretching etc. It's been a pretty remarkable turnaround, I spent 7+ years not able to do any of the sport I used to, and now I'm back. I'm not perfect, but I've gone from having rock solid calves and numb feet after walking a few hundred meters to now running 15kms. I had to ride small displacement bikes for years and eventually sold them because I couldn't do more than a minute of riding before I had no arm control, I recently borrowed a 450 and did a 50km ride at a pretty good pace and I didn't have to stop even once. Such a massive difference I almost can't believe it. Anyway, over the last 18 months as I've been going through this change I've wondered many times if this could help motocross riders who suffer badly from arm pump.

Edit: This turned into a longer more rambly post than I intended, but hey, maybe someone will find some value in it.

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5/7/2021 2:56 AM

limepandanz wrote:

Given that some people seems to get it really bad and others just don't I'm inclined to look towards genetic variability as ...more

So where do you get Methylsulfonylmethane supplements?

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5/7/2021 4:08 AM

luke11 wrote:

So where do you get Methylsulfonylmethane supplements?

I mostly buy a bulk powder from a local company, but I've also used Dr's Best brand pills from iherb which I think is available in most countries.

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5/7/2021 4:22 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/7/2021 4:22 AM

Compartment syndrome.

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5/7/2021 8:07 AM

tobz wrote:

I know I wouldn’t have the arms to hang on to one of those motoGP steeds under full braking, that’s for sure.

Yes you would. Remember, they sit up out of the air pocket behind the windscreen while braking. The force of the wind would blow them right off the back of the machine if it weren't for the massive momentum trying to throw them over the bars. It's a delicate balance!

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Braaapin' aint easy.

5/7/2021 8:52 AM

limepandanz wrote:

Given that some people seems to get it really bad and others just don't I'm inclined to look towards genetic variability as ...more

Interesting info! Thanks for sharing it. My spouse suffered from undiagnosed compartment syndrome in her legs and didn't get it figured out until she went to med school and self diagnosed it. Surgery worked for her, although I don't know if it was 100% resolution. That said, she still suffers from muscle tightness and has sometimes used botox to relieve it. I recently suggested that perhaps there was some chemical or mineral imbalance and now come across your post. I'll be passing this info along and hoping she gives it a try.

Has arm pump always been an issue in MotoGP or is it increasing due to the bikes being faster, better brakes, etc? I don't recall the article answering that.

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5/7/2021 9:46 AM

westeast wrote:

Interesting info! Thanks for sharing it. My spouse suffered from undiagnosed compartment syndrome in her legs and didn't get ...more

I think it became a big issue around 2015 https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/motogp-bike-changes-causing-arm-issues-suggest-marquez-and-rossi-5005505/5005505/

They are absolutely rapid nowadays

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5/7/2021 9:51 AM

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Twitter: @ftemoto
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5/7/2021 11:11 AM

You're so ignorant if you think riding MX is harder than riding a GP bikelaughing

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5/7/2021 12:22 PM

skeef wrote:

You're so ignorant if you think riding MX is harder than riding a GP bikelaughing

SO Less arm pump on a rough and sandy mx track...gotcha.

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5/7/2021 1:43 PM

skeef wrote:

You're so ignorant if you think riding MX is harder than riding a GP bikelaughing

MyBobbym wrote:

SO Less arm pump on a rough and sandy mx track...gotcha.

Yup...

You know one thing you really dont do much on an MX bike.... is brake hard, because the limit of braking is dictated by the grip you have, , which is fuck all in comparison. .

Thats why MX bikes have piss poor brakes, , and Supermoto bikes, use 320mm 4 or even 6 potters, becasue you have grip.. i can stoppy on slicks on dry clean dirt easily under normal conditions, and i can tell you that going from flat out to a 2nd gear turn takes a lot more out of my arms in 15mins, than MX does.

Then treble the speeds and quadruple the horse power, with carbon brakes and see how that works out.

MX is a different type of body usage, and for sure you couldnt ride some of the injuries road racers do, the shock load is less , but the constant G forces on the arms is a killer.

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5/7/2021 8:52 PM

Well you may be right... Or not.
But this
Photo
Isn't this
Photo


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5/7/2021 9:57 PM

It's always funny stuff reading MX people talking down the physical aspect of riding a MotoGP bike. It's our version of the average Joe on the street that doesn't understand MX at all and asks if it isn't just about sitting down and turning the throttle?

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- KTM SX 250 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- Canyon Spectral:ON 7.0 2019 EMTB
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel

5/7/2021 11:39 PM

I never talked down or belittled motogp in any way. Maybe yer talking about another moto brother.
Motogp is tits sir IMHO.

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5/7/2021 11:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/8/2021 12:26 AM

I'm pretty sue I first saw the facia release surgery way back in the 90s, and, being done on Road Racers (predominantly the 500 class) before I saw it being done by MXers.

I'd get more arm pump on Road Track days, than I did on my Dirt Bikes. Just one of those things. The worst arm pump I ever got though, was at the Mont Sainte-Anne 98 World DH Championships in practice, until my nerves settled.

Hey, maybe these blokes need to try that thing that Baker was spruiking a while ago......... ? w00t whistling .

All jokes aside, arm pump truly sucks, when it strikes, especially when you have to run a LHRB as well as the clutch with the one hand.

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5/8/2021 6:07 AM

Aluminum frames.

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5/8/2021 9:27 AM

Yeah sorry, braking from 320+km/h on the straights 25 times in a race is very different from a rough MX track.

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


5/8/2021 9:44 AM

MyBobbym wrote:

I never talked down or belittled motogp in any way. Maybe yer talking about another moto brother.
Motogp is tits sir IMHO.

You're wrong though, it's ok. Fact is MotoGP is the pinnacle of all motorcycle racing in the world.

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5/8/2021 10:52 AM

MyBobbym wrote:

I never talked down or belittled motogp in any way. Maybe yer talking about another moto brother.
Motogp is tits sir IMHO.

skeef wrote:

You're wrong though, it's ok. Fact is MotoGP is the pinnacle of all motorcycle racing in the world.

No doubt and is the most rewarding. I love MotoGP.

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5/8/2021 11:04 AM

MyBobbym wrote:

Well you may be right... Or not.
But this
Photo
Isn't this
Photo


No it isnt.

Its funny how when the MX guys come and do the Supermoto in Belgium, they get arm pump they dont get in MX...

Even Clement Desalle , who is a beast, said he struggled badly with arm pump, because you spend so much time on the brakes..

Unless you have done it, you cant possibly know.

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5/8/2021 5:23 PM

Reached a reasonably high level in mx and have done numerous track days on a 1000, I can say that, I can’t imagine the forces (particularly braking) those guys (MotoGP) deal with on a lap to lap basis. I wouldn’t put it above or below mxgp but different.

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5/9/2021 2:10 PM

SX-Andy wrote:

Reached a reasonably high level in mx and have done numerous track days on a 1000, I can say that, I can’t imagine the forces ...more

The diiference between a trackday nobber ( and i am one of those too) , and MotoGP is night day.. read what Mat Oxley said about the first time he rode with carbon brakes, he is a bloody top level endurance racer, and knows how to ride, and he said the power is unreal

We ran BrakeTech Carbon Discs on our SM bike in 2010, and they were a halfway house carbon/non carbon set up. which meant you didnt need to get them hot to work, Brembo MXGP brakes have to be pretty much red hot to work, and to do that , you have to work them hard. ..

I have done some time in WRC cars , and even in gravel trim , the brakes are enough to give you whiplash... full tarmac spec is a step change again... i did 25 mins in the car non stop, and i ached more than i did after any MX race.

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