Are the best racers in the world training wrong?

Related:
Create New Tag

4/14/2021 11:35 AM

I'm not saying the racers of today aren't fit because they are absolute beasts.

Here is my hypothesis: I watched AC's video announcing that he was out for the rest of SX and a thought started gnawing at me. The fact is the dude looks frail. I know he's in better shape than I have ever been in and I'm not dogging him because I like him and want him to win a ton and become the face of the sport. I think the era of building pure cardio beasts has possibly gone past its prime and is now harming these guys.

The undeniable fact is modern 450's are going faster than dirt bikes have ever gone causing exceedingly violent crashes. I don't believe one single guy on a SX line would lose any measurable performance of their 450 by putting on 15 pounds or so.

It is possible to still retain flexibility and cardio but add a substantial amount of muscle. If some of these guys had more musculature they would be far less susceptible to injuries. I'm well aware that you don't need ultimate strength to race a dirt bike but muscles aren't just about strength, they do protect your vital organs and bones. MMA fighters take a beating and yet are still very flexible and have great cardio.

What I'm suggesting goes against just about everything the establishment trainers preach and I'm sure some will call me an idiot (especially with my bait headline haha) but I think it's a worthy discussion.

|

4/14/2021 12:47 PM

I think its been said that Larocco could bench press about 400lbs. And Steward Baylor is killing it this year with weight training and increasing flexibility.

|

4/14/2021 1:00 PM

The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft tissue resilience from weight training either. That is basically his natural size and it's fast. The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.

|

4 stroke de-evolution! With the right handicap even I could beat Tiger Woods.

4/14/2021 1:07 PM

Motocross is not an upper body sport.

Rick Johnson told me he has "String bean arms".

none of the worlds fastest motocross riders have upper body bulk it is not needed when you ride a bike with your legs.

|

4/14/2021 1:14 PM

Brent wrote:

Motocross is not an upper body sport.

Rick Johnson told me he has "String bean arms".

none of the worlds fastest motocross ...more

You completely missed my point. I'm not talking about an aid to riding the bike, I'm talking adding musculature to prevent injury.

|

4/14/2021 1:16 PM

curmudgeon wrote:

The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain ...more

It's not just this collarbone, the has a history of injuries in the shoulder area. Build some mass and things are a bit easier to hold together.

|

4/14/2021 1:18 PM

curmudgeon wrote:

The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain ...more

McG194 wrote:

It's not just this collarbone, the has a history of injuries in the shoulder area. Build some mass and things are a bit easier ...more

Things hold together when you dont crash too. Plenty of people bigger and stronger than AC break their collarbones

|

4/14/2021 1:21 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2021 1:22 PM

All I know is I couldn't hold on for a full 16 minute moto until I added weight training to my weekly regimen. I know everyone is different, but I believe taller guys like AC would benefit from some additional muscle. The extra weight shouldn't negatively impact starts on a 450 either... Could even have a positive effect.

No question that additional muscle would also help with injury prevention.

|

James

4/14/2021 1:25 PM

Best thing I ever did for my riding was pick up some weights and go from 160 to 180ish, Im 5'10. No noticeable loss in cardio and its so much easier for me to handle a bike now. Im not going to sit here and pretend I know more than the pros because that obviously isn't the case, just saying that it did help me out a lot.

|

4/14/2021 1:28 PM

McG194 wrote:

You completely missed my point. I'm not talking about an aid to riding the bike, I'm talking adding musculature to prevent ...more

Maybe, but think about this:

For example: If Cam McAdoo had 20 more Lbs of upper body muscle, his upper body would be more weighted, and that extra weight would act like a pendulum and could have thrown him over the bars in his crazy crash last night. But if he had extra upper body strength would he been able to avoid the crash in the first place? who knows.

I made the mistake of hitting the weights hard and bulking up in my upper body and neglecting my legs years ago, and now it is a hindrance for motos with a lot of jumps and rapid acceleration out of the corners. To have to throw extra muscles around during jumping and acceleration isn't easy for me over a long moto as it is some skinny kid with strong legs.

So would the extra muscles help control an out of control dirt bike? maybe. but I see a lot of national pros at least once a week at the track, and they have the body of a surfer or road cyclist, so it is working for them.

|

4/14/2021 1:37 PM

Its all about performance.

Less pounds = Better start.

|

4/14/2021 1:40 PM

Nick bare (YouTube guy) is like 5’10 200lbs yoked, and recently ran a sub 3 hr marathon.

Having muscle has been scientifically proven in numerous studies to aid in the prevention of injuries (yes we know guys, it won’t prevent every injury).

Studies show increasing muscle mass also increases bone density and tendon strength.

I wonder how the increased muscle mass may affect balance though.

|

4/14/2021 1:50 PM

More muscle means it needs more oxygen, meaning you get winded faster. Facts.

|

4/14/2021 2:27 PM

Raikzz wrote:

More muscle means it needs more oxygen, meaning you get winded faster. Facts.

I think MMA or Crossfit athletes are a good example that both are possible.

|

4/14/2021 3:07 PM

With Hunter Lawrence's current results I have to agree with this thread.

After changing his diet and putting on muscle (his words) he doesn't look like the crystal doll he was the last two seasons.

|

4/14/2021 4:09 PM

You’re overthinking it. No certain gym exercise is going to make you faster. Nothing can really help you throw around a 450 except throwing around a 450. Plus, If you’re relying on muscle to ride the bike, you’re really doing it wrong.

|

4/14/2021 4:28 PM

sandtrack315 wrote:

You’re overthinking it. No certain gym exercise is going to make you faster. Nothing can really help you throw around a 450 ...more

You don’t understand the topic at all

|

4/14/2021 4:33 PM

navalseabee wrote:

I think MMA or Crossfit athletes are a good example that both are possible.

They're not even in the same league when it comes to cardio. MMA and MX are two very different kinds of fitness, there's a reason pro riders look more like cyclists or marathon runners than fighters or rugby players. They need full aerobic capacity pinned at near-max HR for 20-30mins, there's no other sport I can think of that requires that.

Now I certainly think that modern riders could use a few extra kg, I'm not a fan of how many are now vegetarian and looking very lean. A Webb type build seems pretty ideal from a strength/conditioning view, and his bulldog performances seem to back that up. But I understand that there is a limit to how much bulk they could add before negatively impacting cardio fitness which is crucial in the last 5-10 minutes of a race.

|

4/14/2021 5:28 PM

Anyone notice how fit (non homo) sipes looked when they showed him at the medic trailer. Dude has some upper body strength. And he’s 36

|

4/14/2021 6:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2021 6:08 PM

curmudgeon wrote:

The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain ...more

I'll disagree, and I'm being serious here. First off, you don't need the needle to add bulk in a reasonable manner. Increased calories from proper diet will give you an easy increase in muscle mass combined with weight training. If you have muscle built over your upper chest/shoulders/trapezius from doing incline bench press, shoulder press, and shrugs there will be muscle to absorb impacts instead of just skin and bones up there. I like this thread. If these guys would just add 1 day of muscle maintenance during the race season, and a "bulk" phase during the off season they might be less injured. I've bounced off the earth pretty hard at times, and I like to think that the weight lifting I do has helped mitigate serious injuries at times.

|

United States of America

4/14/2021 6:06 PM

and, broken collarbones happen when you stick you arm out to cushion the fall.

What muscle group would prevent that?

|

4/14/2021 7:21 PM

Maybe some guys just have, not so great, bone density. I've definitely grew up with kids that it seems like the dumbest, simplest fall or slip and they break a bone.

|

4/14/2021 7:25 PM

Riders have gotten a lot more lean compared to the past.
look at Ricky's build when he was in his prime, same with McGrath. And Reed. They all where thicker built and could take a hit when they crashed.

Riders who battle the most injuries seem to always be the more lean built type.
Not that i know anything. just outside looking in haha


|

4/14/2021 7:28 PM

sandtrack315 wrote:

You’re overthinking it. No certain gym exercise is going to make you faster. Nothing can really help you throw around a 450 ...more

Can you point to anywhere that I suggested that being jacked would make you faster on a dirt bike?

The only suggestion that I'm making in this thread is that we have possibly taken the leanness too far and that a racer with more muscle may get injured less. I'm in no way suggesting that having beach muscles will help cut lap times. Quite the contrary, I think bikes today are fast enough that they can compensate for hauling a few extra pounds around.

|

4/14/2021 7:37 PM

Crash217 wrote:

I think its been said that Larocco could bench press about 400lbs. And Steward Baylor is killing it this year with weight ...more

Not a chance in hell Larocco could bench 400

|

4/14/2021 8:51 PM

Brent wrote:

and, broken collarbones happen when you stick you arm out to cushion the fall.

What muscle group would prevent that?

Triceps might help a rider catch themselves a bit, reducing the impact to the bone.

|

4/15/2021 2:45 AM

Raikzz wrote:

More muscle means it needs more oxygen, meaning you get winded faster. Facts.

navalseabee wrote:

I think MMA or Crossfit athletes are a good example that both are possible.

MMA is not comparable to motocross, you have 5 minute rounds and most of that time you are just waiting for your opportunity, you are not constantly near your max HR 20min straight.
Good example is track running - 100m and 200m runners are with big muscles but 400m and onwards they are getting skinnier and skinnier.

|

4/15/2021 3:03 AM

I’m sure there’s some riders who may benefit from some extra muscle, but not all.
Bodies are not created equal; there’s genetics which dictate our builds, and if you look at history, success and injury susceptibility are not even close to being linked to body type, despite RC’s “long legs” comments.
In fact i think muscle mass would have a threshold where it would become a liability.

|

4/15/2021 3:13 AM

What type of injuries are you referring to that muscle helps prevent?

|

4/15/2021 3:24 AM

Reading comprehension is at an all time low in this one....

|