Are dealer “freight” fees legit?

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2/2/2021 9:23 PM

Or are they just junk fees?

Meaning, does the manufacturer really charge the dealer a set fee for every bike they get in the dealer...or is that just another fee (like a document prep fee) that dealers charge, because they can?

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2/2/2021 9:53 PM

Well last year i bought a 19 ktm 350sxf left over otd in march, and it was $7000.00 otd they waived the prep, (cause i had it shipped to me) and they said the doc fee was included in the 7k.

This year i call around to find new Ktm 350sxf and not one dealer is under 11,200 otd

So instead i went to ATV’s and MOR and bought a 2021 KTM250SX for 8k otd, they waived prep fee!

Just doc fee! $220.00

Im cool with paying that this time around cause i know dealers that are selling 2020 left over 250sx bikes for 8699.00

Since thats the case that means i can pay 8200 for my 2021 and next year sell it for the same amount if not $200.00 and it only will cost me $200.00-$400.00 to own the bike and ride it for a whole year!


So, to recapp, find a dealer you are capable to work with and get in good with salesman and let them let you know when the rebates come alive and TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT.

Remember sometimes the doc fee could be their commission so dont bitch about paying it, if your returning to that dealer in future.

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2/2/2021 10:03 PM

So 2021 YZ450FX...$9700 MSRP...$11,500 out the door, including $771 in taxes and $110 registration fee. So there is about $1000 in dealer fees (freight was like $450, doc prep of $250 and another fee I can’t remember).

Seems like the dealer fees are just junk fees...but I don’t know that for sure.

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2/2/2021 10:11 PM

Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.

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2/2/2021 10:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/2/2021 10:40 PM

As an aside, margins on bikes are complete shit. Like 10%. Dealers make money on the ad on’s, fees, DMV fees, and financing.

Regardless, you should support your local dealer. It is a really challenging business, margins are thin and customers can be hard as heck. Find someone that treats you well and return the favor to them.

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2/2/2021 10:28 PM

I think you need to worry less about a "fee" and more about total OTD cost and the service the dealer provides. Legit support of the local scene? Good inventory? Knowledgable employees and technicians? Clean facility?

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2/2/2021 10:40 PM

mxnick wrote:

Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.

I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/2/2021 11:08 PM

mxnick wrote:

Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.

You need to consider the total profit on a new bike sold at full retail and then decide if it is outrageous. What do you do for a living?

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2/2/2021 11:14 PM

I think my cars had a freight fee too lately.

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2/2/2021 11:38 PM

Freight fees are about 250 normally. Anything over that dealer is making money.

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2/3/2021 12:42 AM

mb60 wrote:

Freight fees are about 250 normally. Anything over that dealer is making money.

And we cant have dealers making money,can we.

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2/3/2021 4:00 AM

Titan1. wrote:

Or are they just junk fees?

Meaning, does the manufacturer really charge the dealer a set fee for every bike they get in the dealer...or is that just another fee (like a document prep fee) that dealers charge, because they can?

Yes, dealers pay freight to the manufacturer. The freight is usually the same whether the bike is shipped 100 miles or 3000 miles, as they ‘average’ it out and charge all dealers the same. That’s the general rule and there could be some exceptions, obviously.

There is usually a difference between MSRP and dealer invoice for the machine, but I’m pretty sure that the freight is still a ‘pass through’ cost without dealer margins or discount.

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2/3/2021 4:27 AM

Yes. We pay freight. And if you check any manufacturers site you can also find that applicable fee.
As well if you check any window sticker on any new car, destination fee is always built in to the msrp.

Please support your local bike shop and don’t nickel and dime them over every fee. We’re not slick back used car salesman trying to get one over on you. We’re enthusiasts of the sport and sincerely want to offer the best value and experience for our customers.

Also “set up” fees - yes. Bikes arrive in a wooden box or metal crate. Sounds simple but still a task and does cost the dealership x to orchestrate and complete.

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2/3/2021 4:27 AM

I love how my post is the most legitimate post in here i straight told the new bike float your money method to everyone and it gets downvoted, love this site!

Just goto the dealer buy the bike and pay em an extra thousand for selling it to you! And quit bitching about 250.00 fee ontop of a immature purchase you just attempted to spend 8thousand dollars on.!!!


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2/3/2021 4:29 AM

ferg722 wrote:

Yes. We pay freight. And if you check any manufacturers site you can also find that applicable fee.
As well if you check any window sticker on any new car, destination fee is always built in to the msrp.

Please support your local bike shop and don’t nickel and dime them over every fee. We’re not slick back used car salesman trying to get one over on you. We’re enthusiasts of the sport and sincerely want to offer the best value and experience for our customers.

Also “set up” fees - yes. Bikes arrive in a wooden box or metal crate. Sounds simple but still a task and does cost the dealership x to orchestrate and complete.

Photo
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Damn sure dont pay 9 thou for that yellow bike i know dealers selling 2020 modes for 64 otd!!!

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2/3/2021 4:37 AM

Oh btw when your charged for freight on ktm, you are paying for the crate too! Its a good thing to have around if you plan on shipping bikes across the country through sales or riding, also the dealer gyps you on a bungee cord you pay for and a perfect little black pull strap for a matrix can in the back of a pickup that comes in the crate for ktm, and there is a couple other things like card board you pay for, if you do a lot of shipping on items it can be utilized i mean hell you paid for it within that 450$ freight charge!


Been there and done it! Multiple times.

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2/3/2021 7:41 AM

Here is where I’m coming from on this, the ONLY reason I will ever use a dealer is to buy a bike, that’s it, I won’t step foot in a dealer until Im ready to buy another bike (and I honestly look forward to the day I can just buy a bike online directly from the manufacturer and have it delivered to my house) so all other “value” dealers can claim to provide aren’t factors in my decision....so buying a bike is all about price to me....because that is literally all I need the dealer for (selling the bike).

So I’m not going to pay more than I have to, just because dealers have low margins (and they might) and are good guys (and they probably are)...if you all want to pay extra to the dealer for those reasons, go for it...but I shop around, find the dealer willing to sell me a bike for the lowest OTD price and that is where I buy the bike from.

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2/3/2021 7:47 AM

Titan1. wrote:

Or are they just junk fees?

Meaning, does the manufacturer really charge the dealer a set fee for every bike they get in the dealer...or is that just another fee (like a document prep fee) that dealers charge, because they can?

its something they charge per bike but is also something that is there to pretty much just become sales commission. Some dealerships give more incentive to the salesman so they can cut bikes to cost, while others are strictly commission based plus a small hourly wage if they dont hit the goal. if you care about having a salesman, cool. if not dont pay it and wait to order all your bikes online.

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2/3/2021 8:17 AM

This is laughable. If you go sell something on Ebay and you ship it to the buyer do you pay the shipping OOORRRRR make the buyer pay?

Second thought, None of the MX bikes are made in America. It aint free to put them on a boat and ship them across the pond..

Third and Final, This is something that is clearly posted on all oems sites now for all units because people constantly think its the dealerships sticking them with "Fees".

#kooks

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2/3/2021 8:32 AM

mxnick wrote:

Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.

8tensolutions wrote:

You need to consider the total profit on a new bike sold at full retail and then decide if it is outrageous. What do you do for a living?

In the case of KTM, it was posted in a thread a few days ago that the dealer makes $2k on a 2020 450SX at MSRP before any fees were added on.

I manage an HVAC supply store.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/3/2021 8:40 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.

8tensolutions wrote:

You need to consider the total profit on a new bike sold at full retail and then decide if it is outrageous. What do you do for a living?

mattyhamz2 wrote:

In the case of KTM, it was posted in a thread a few days ago that the dealer makes $2k on a 2020 450SX at MSRP before any fees were added on.

I manage an HVAC supply store.

Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call it. Fee or whatever. Doc fees are completely different, but freight and setup is not unfair. It just amazes me how many people don’t want dealers to be profitable, but are fine with their industry operating on a 50-100% GP. Half the time, they don’t even know their industry business model which is even more concerning. Don’t turn this around on parts either, as dealers are lucky to make 40% on parts and accessories as an average.

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Twitter and Instagram @8tensolutions

2/3/2021 8:42 AM

Titan1. wrote:

Here is where I’m coming from on this, the ONLY reason I will ever use a dealer is to buy a bike, that’s it, I won’t step foot in a dealer until Im ready to buy another bike (and I honestly look forward to the day I can just buy a bike online directly from the manufacturer and have it delivered to my house) so all other “value” dealers can claim to provide aren’t factors in my decision....so buying a bike is all about price to me....because that is literally all I need the dealer for (selling the bike).

So I’m not going to pay more than I have to, just because dealers have low margins (and they might) and are good guys (and they probably are)...if you all want to pay extra to the dealer for those reasons, go for it...but I shop around, find the dealer willing to sell me a bike for the lowest OTD price and that is where I buy the bike from.

This is totally within your right as that’s the model they created. If a dealer wants to make zero on a bike, that’s not your problem. The manufacturers should go to a MARP model to protect their dealers IMO.

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2/3/2021 8:58 AM

Just bought a Honda 450X from Donnell's in Independence, MO...$7,800.

Then I paid $350 to ship it and $40 to insure it (Shipping Insurance). I have no F'n idea what "fees" are in the price I paid & I really don't care. But, I do know this...

That dealer is AMAZING. They help me with special parts orders, technical questions (like parts interchangeability between R/RX and X/L) and they're just nice people. Period.

I hope any and all of you have a dealer that's this awesome to help you out, too.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

2/3/2021 9:26 AM

clydesdalecameron wrote:

This is laughable. If you go sell something on Ebay and you ship it to the buyer do you pay the shipping OOORRRRR make the buyer pay?

Second thought, None of the MX bikes are made in America. It aint free to put them on a boat and ship them across the pond..

Third and Final, This is something that is clearly posted on all oems sites now for all units because people constantly think its the dealerships sticking them with "Fees".

#kooks

Photo

The dealers should just add the destination charge to the msrp...then they wouldn't have to worry about people thinking dealers are "sticking them with fees"...because as they do it now, it looks exactly like the dealers are sticking people with fees.

Add it to the MSRP, every dealer advertises MSRP anyway...so the playing field is still level. Then put in fine print (or bold print) below the msrp: "destination charge included in msrp".

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2/3/2021 9:26 AM

8tensolutions wrote:

You need to consider the total profit on a new bike sold at full retail and then decide if it is outrageous. What do you do for a living?

mattyhamz2 wrote:

In the case of KTM, it was posted in a thread a few days ago that the dealer makes $2k on a 2020 450SX at MSRP before any fees were added on.

I manage an HVAC supply store.

8tensolutions wrote:

Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call it. Fee or whatever. Doc fees are completely different, but freight and setup is not unfair. It just amazes me how many people don’t want dealers to be profitable, but are fine with their industry operating on a 50-100% GP. Half the time, they don’t even know their industry business model which is even more concerning. Don’t turn this around on parts either, as dealers are lucky to make 40% on parts and accessories as an average.

Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.

|

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/3/2021 9:31 AM

mxnick wrote:

Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.

A good shop's service department is always booked a week or 2 in advance, so their techs time is worth what ever their door rate is, not what their wage is. Well run dealerships charge their sales departments the same rate as customer door rate.

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2/3/2021 9:36 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

In the case of KTM, it was posted in a thread a few days ago that the dealer makes $2k on a 2020 450SX at MSRP before any fees were added on.

I manage an HVAC supply store.

8tensolutions wrote:

Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call it. Fee or whatever. Doc fees are completely different, but freight and setup is not unfair. It just amazes me how many people don’t want dealers to be profitable, but are fine with their industry operating on a 50-100% GP. Half the time, they don’t even know their industry business model which is even more concerning. Don’t turn this around on parts either, as dealers are lucky to make 40% on parts and accessories as an average.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.

But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit!

They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go karts every year than they do dirtbikes ill gaurentee you that, and those dudes dont bitch at all they sre just happy to get there get in there 4wd go kart and lose 10k on the unit as soon as they roll it onto their gooseneck!

Thats no shit, every dealer ive ever dealt with i always ask what their besg selling units are and its either utvs or boat related or jet skis.

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2/3/2021 9:36 AM

mxnick wrote:

Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.

three9zero wrote:

A good shop's service department is always booked a week or 2 in advance, so their techs time is worth what ever their door rate is, not what their wage is. Well run dealerships charge their sales departments the same rate as customer door rate.

A few shops around my area have a specific tech that handles only new bike setups.

|

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/3/2021 9:41 AM

8tensolutions wrote:

Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call it. Fee or whatever. Doc fees are completely different, but freight and setup is not unfair. It just amazes me how many people don’t want dealers to be profitable, but are fine with their industry operating on a 50-100% GP. Half the time, they don’t even know their industry business model which is even more concerning. Don’t turn this around on parts either, as dealers are lucky to make 40% on parts and accessories as an average.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.

Austin_Rankin wrote:

But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit!

They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go karts every year than they do dirtbikes ill gaurentee you that, and those dudes dont bitch at all they sre just happy to get there get in there 4wd go kart and lose 10k on the unit as soon as they roll it onto their gooseneck!

Thats no shit, every dealer ive ever dealt with i always ask what their besg selling units are and its either utvs or boat related or jet skis.

Ya, you definitely have a point there.

|

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/3/2021 9:51 AM

Titan1. wrote:

Or are they just junk fees?

Meaning, does the manufacturer really charge the dealer a set fee for every bike they get in the dealer...or is that just another fee (like a document prep fee) that dealers charge, because they can?

Ever look at a car sticker at the dealership?
Yes freight is charged uphill, both ways

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