I can't be the only person who thinks that a WORKS 450 is just a useless, overpriced concept right? I mean the real money of the sport is in the 250 class. Why aren't these Manufacturers making WORKS 250F's? Lets face it, you can run a stock 450 and be competitive since half of the guys can't ride them to their potential. But you CANNOT run a stock 250F and think you're going to be competitive at a Pro-Am trying to get your pro license. I don't know one A rider who hasn't put a minimum of $3K into the engine. Its a sad truth to where our sport has gone. So why wouldn't they offer a mod 250F? That's all they would sell...cha ching$$$$$$$$$$$$

The works crf450 is completely worth it

coastlinecascot wrote:

The works crf450 is ...more

coastlinecascot wrote:

The works crf450 is completely worth it

Look, I found the Honda employee

I’d probably go broke if Yamaha did a something like that for a Star Racing bike

Kawasaki stock 250 is already a Works bike fresh off the showroom floor!

eric513anderson wrote:

I’d probably go broke if ...more

eric513anderson wrote:

I’d probably go broke if Yamaha did a something like that for a Star Racing bike

Yeah no kidding! They obviously wouldn't make it as modded as their actual racebikes. But even if it was close i'm sure that bike would cost $15K.

eric513anderson wrote:

I’d probably go broke if ...more

eric513anderson wrote:

I’d probably go broke if Yamaha did a something like that for a Star Racing bike

nrosso391 wrote:

Yeah no kidding! They ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

Yeah no kidding! They obviously wouldn't make it as modded as their actual racebikes. But even if it was close i'm sure that bike would cost $15K.

A man can dream right? Lol

it's a solid idea.

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

He's talented. You can't take that from him. BUT that bike is about 75% of why he is doing so well. If he was on a tld ktm he would not have the red plate right now.

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

nrosso391 wrote:

He's talented. You can't ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

He's talented. You can't take that from him. BUT that bike is about 75% of why he is doing so well. If he was on a tld ktm he would not have the red plate right now.

Lol

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

No offence to Aaron but he couldn't even win a moto on a Star bike in the A class in his last year at Lorettas...

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

nrosso391 wrote:

He's talented. You can't ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

He's talented. You can't take that from him. BUT that bike is about 75% of why he is doing so well. If he was on a tld ktm he would not have the red plate right now.

I wouldn’t say it’s that much of an advantage. But they are the strongest 250 outdoor bike hands down. I like both the Martins but I think they would do better on the star bike

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

c0ncEpT wrote:

No offence to Aaron but he ...more

c0ncEpT wrote:

No offence to Aaron but he couldn't even win a moto on a Star bike in the A class in his last year at Lorettas...

I’d say it’s called progression.....

Kyle_McNab wrote:

I wouldn’t say it’s that ...more

Kyle_McNab wrote:

I wouldn’t say it’s that much of an advantage. But they are the strongest 250 outdoor bike hands down. I like both the Martins but I think they would do better on the star bike

Yes for sure. I would have loved to hear the conversations the Martins had with their new teams when they left Star Yamaha and hopped on their new steeds. They must have said, "WOW...you guys need to find some more power,my Yamaha could eat this POS for breakfast"

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

nrosso391 wrote:

He's talented. You can't ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

He's talented. You can't take that from him. BUT that bike is about 75% of why he is doing so well. If he was on a tld ktm he would not have the red plate right now.

so the 75% rider 25% bike (and thats generous) is completely wrong?

I don't understand your argument. Even the "Works" 450s don't have truly "works" engine mods. They have works suspension, a pipe and some anodized bling. They don't touch the motors, at least in a "works" sense. No high compression piston. The valves and cam are stock. Maybe an extra special ECU map. Big deal. Hand polished ports are not expensive to do. These bikes are not truly "works" bikes. As we have seen with the factory 250's of late, they are far too sensitive to sell a truly "works" engine to the general public (e.g. polished ports, high compression piston, valves, cam, etc...).

Your argument for cost doesn't make sense either. If people are already putting $3000 into a stock 250 to be competitive, how is that any different than buying a slightly modified "works" 250, which would surely be $2k-$3k over the standard edition?

Jeremy Macbeth wrote:

I don't understand your ...more

Jeremy Macbeth wrote:

I don't understand your argument. Even the "Works" 450s don't have truly "works" engine mods. They have works suspension, a pipe and some anodized bling. They don't touch the motors, at least in a "works" sense. No high compression piston. The valves and cam are stock. Maybe an extra special ECU map. Big deal. Hand polished ports are not expensive to do. These bikes are not truly "works" bikes. As we have seen with the factory 250's of late, they are far too sensitive to sell a truly "works" engine to the general public (e.g. polished ports, high compression piston, valves, cam, etc...).

Your argument for cost doesn't make sense either. If people are already putting $3000 into a stock 250 to be competitive, how is that any different than buying a slightly modified "works" 250, which would surely be $2k-$3k over the standard edition?

From a business standpoint, "Lets tell them its (WORKS) and we'll get extra $$ from very little modification"

From a consumer standpoint, "These bikes are too expensive to buy and then dump the retail cost of the bike back into mods for the bike to be competitive"

NO I agree with you, they call it "WORKS" but its no where near a fully modded motor or suspension. Hell i'd be fine with them just giving me a mod engine and exhaust and leaving the rest stock.

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron ...more

kb228 wrote:

Im pretty sure aaron plessinger can hop on a stock 250F and win lorettas dude.

c0ncEpT wrote:

No offence to Aaron but he ...more

c0ncEpT wrote:

No offence to Aaron but he couldn't even win a moto on a Star bike in the A class in his last year at Lorettas...

eric513anderson wrote:

I’d say it’s called ...more

eric513anderson wrote:

I’d say it’s called progression.....

You're right. So why talk about him winning Lorettas now that he's a pro?

What kb228 said doesn't even pertain to this conversation.

If you're on a stock bike in the mod B or A classes at Loretta's your gonna get your clock cleaned no matter who you are.

Honestly ML512 sold me on the crf450 works than Honda ever could. To go through the differences in parts and explain the individual price differences of them compared to the overall price of the works edition and then to do a ride review with full analysis of power delivery and suspension was incredible.

think about if a company hopped up the motor and made a works bike. You would have a ton of people buying them and then get pissed when the motor pops because they didn't maintain the motor like a true race motor.

fourfourone wrote:

think about if a company ...more

fourfourone wrote:

think about if a company hopped up the motor and made a works bike. You would have a ton of people buying them and then get pissed when the motor pops because they didn't maintain the motor like a true race motor.

^^^^
Also true!

Those “works” 250’s are time bombs. I am not sure anyone wants to sell a production bike with a 5 hour life span.

Honda Man 66 wrote:

Those “works” 250’s are ...more

Honda Man 66 wrote:

Those “works” 250’s are time bombs. I am not sure anyone wants to sell a production bike with a 5 hour life span.

Yes a TRUE WORKS bike is a time bomb for sure. But I'm talking about the "WORKS" ones there selling the public which have just enough mods for you to spend the money to own it.

Honda Man 66 wrote:

Those “works” 250’s are ...more

Honda Man 66 wrote:

Those “works” 250’s are time bombs. I am not sure anyone wants to sell a production bike with a 5 hour life span.

nrosso391 wrote:

Yes a TRUE WORKS bike is a ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

Yes a TRUE WORKS bike is a time bomb for sure. But I'm talking about the "WORKS" ones there selling the public which have just enough mods for you to spend the money to own it.

I hear you.
Maybe there should be a better name for these bikes. Maybe the “Poser” edition.

nrosso391 wrote:

I can't be the only person ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

I can't be the only person who thinks that a WORKS 450 is just a useless, overpriced concept right? I mean the real money of the sport is in the 250 class. Why aren't these Manufacturers making WORKS 250F's? Lets face it, you can run a stock 450 and be competitive since half of the guys can't ride them to their potential. But you CANNOT run a stock 250F and think you're going to be competitive at a Pro-Am trying to get your pro license. I don't know one A rider who hasn't put a minimum of $3K into the engine. Its a sad truth to where our sport has gone. So why wouldn't they offer a mod 250F? That's all they would sell...cha ching$$$$$$$$$$$$

well, i thought KTM had a factory edition 250F.... isn't that ''works'' enough?

Arrowangel wrote:

well, i thought KTM had a ...more

Arrowangel wrote:

well, i thought KTM had a factory edition 250F.... isn't that ''works'' enough?

This issue highlights a big problem with the sport.

Why spend more $, end up with something far less reliable, just to have a chance of being competitive in the 250f class, and run the same lap times as 2t's and 450's?

By your explanation of a "works" bike - you are asking for a mildly modified 250F.

Yamaha - GYTR
Kawi - Pro Circuit race package
KTM/Husky - Factory Editions & KTM Factory Services (I believe no longer around though)
Honda - Works 450 & I believe they will follow suite with a 250F

What I am getting at - you can already obtain what you are asking for. Order a bike from PC and tell them you want it a race package. Buy a Yamaha and have the dealership install the optional GYTR go-fast parts.Etc.

nrosso391 wrote:

Yes a TRUE WORKS bike is a ...more

nrosso391 wrote:

Yes a TRUE WORKS bike is a time bomb for sure. But I'm talking about the "WORKS" ones there selling the public which have just enough mods for you to spend the money to own it.

Anything that substantially increases performance either costs a lot and/or reduces reliability.
When you starting adding aggressive cams, timing and pistons you're riding a grenade with the pin already pulled. Plus it would be a race gas only motor. When adding fancy kit suspension and electronics, you've nearly doubled the price of the motorcycle (not to mention if you don't know how to set it up, its no better than stock stuff).

So either the "fake works" bikes you are talking about are, in reality, only marginally better than a stock bike and won't effect finishing results. Or a real one will cost $15,000 and will require a rebuild twice a month.