Are Factory bikes really that fast?

Raikzz
Profile picture for user Raikzz
Posts
106
Joined
7/5/2017
Location
EE
Raikzz
Everytime some factory rider goes to LCQ, they almost always holeshot even from the far outside, is the factory engine really that much faster, or are the factory rider so much better starters?
1
|
MotoMan12345
Profile picture for user MotoMan12345
Posts
1668
Joined
12/22/2014
Location
Woodbine, NJ US
Fantasy
1924th
MotoMan12345 3/23/2019 5:47am
3/23/2019 5:47am
I mean a factory 250 has as many HP as a stock 450....(at least from what I’ve heard) but also the rider is much better hence why there’re on a factory bike lol. So yeah all of the above
6
1

The Shop

See All »
GoldenKTM
Profile picture for user GoldenKTM
Posts
165
Joined
1/29/2017
Location
WI US
GoldenKTM 3/23/2019 5:52am
3/23/2019 5:52am
The factory bike is (ideally) exactly what the rider wants so they should be perfectly comforable on it and will perform best on it. That’s why they can holeshot from the outside against privateer bikes.
MotoMan12345
Profile picture for user MotoMan12345
Posts
1668
Joined
12/22/2014
Location
Woodbine, NJ US
Fantasy
1924th
MotoMan12345 3/23/2019 5:55am
3/23/2019 5:55am
Crush wrote:
Scroll through the comments View this post on Instagram Throw back to the days of riding the fastest 250 in the world.. how many HP?? ...
Scroll through the comments

Someone said 52 and he said more..Woohoo
observeroffacts
Profile picture for user observeroffacts
Posts
1024
Joined
9/16/2017
Location
Lake Owens, MO US
Fantasy
3717th
observeroffacts 3/23/2019 5:56am
3/23/2019 5:56am
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
1
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 3/23/2019 5:58am
3/23/2019 5:58am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2019 6:02am
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes

Again, why do we need 450s?!
24
5
mimafia
Profile picture for user mimafia
Posts
314
Joined
5/17/2013
Location
Grand Rapids, MI US
Fantasy
2682nd
mimafia 3/23/2019 6:04am
3/23/2019 6:04am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2019 6:04am
Raikzz wrote:
Everytime some factory rider goes to LCQ, they almost always holeshot even from the far outside, is the factory engine really that much faster, or are...
Everytime some factory rider goes to LCQ, they almost always holeshot even from the far outside, is the factory engine really that much faster, or are the factory rider so much better starters?
fyi MXA magazine fairly regularly gets their hands on factory bikes to test. The last two issues had reprints of their tests of Stewart's 2009 YZ450f SX bike and Reed's 2002 YZ250f SX bike.
kb228
Profile picture for user kb228
Posts
6161
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH US
kb228 3/23/2019 6:28am
3/23/2019 6:28am
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
Crush wrote:

Again, why do we need 450s?!
You dont have to spend $15,000 on an engine to get power on a 450. Maintenance is less and you can detune them.
12
MotoMan12345
Profile picture for user MotoMan12345
Posts
1668
Joined
12/22/2014
Location
Woodbine, NJ US
Fantasy
1924th
MotoMan12345 3/23/2019 7:16am
3/23/2019 7:16am
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
Crush wrote:

Again, why do we need 450s?!
kb228 wrote:
You dont have to spend $15,000 on an engine to get power on a 450. Maintenance is less and you can detune them.
This ^ all of my friends race 450 for outdoors so they can compete. If your racing 250s you gotta throw some seidojs $$ into it + the work to keep it going all season.
FGR01
Profile picture for user FGR01
Posts
5112
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
1222nd
FGR01 3/23/2019 9:41am
3/23/2019 9:41am
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
He never stated a number. A commentor said 52 and he said "more". So let's assume that's 54'ish. Here are the dyno results for the 2019 450's.

HONDA CRF450R Peak HP: 57.51, Peak Torque: 35.13
YAMAHA YZ450F Peak HP: 55.30, Peak Torque: 33.61
KAWASAKI KX450 Peak HP: 54.34, 34.02
KTM 450SX-F Peak HP: 56.08, Peak Torque: 35.19
HUSQVARNA FC450 Peak HP: 55.43, Peak Torque: 34.46
SUZUKI RM-Z450 Peak HP: 52.53, Peak Torque: 34.06

Other than the Suzuki, none have less than 54 HP. In any case, even if that Yamaha 250 has 57-58HP it would obviously be very peaky and narrow and have none of the torque of a 450.
observeroffacts
Profile picture for user observeroffacts
Posts
1024
Joined
9/16/2017
Location
Lake Owens, MO US
Fantasy
3717th
observeroffacts 3/23/2019 9:44am
3/23/2019 9:44am
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
FGR01 wrote:
He never stated a number. A commentor said 52 and he said "more". So let's assume that's 54'ish. Here are the dyno results for the 2019...
He never stated a number. A commentor said 52 and he said "more". So let's assume that's 54'ish. Here are the dyno results for the 2019 450's.

HONDA CRF450R Peak HP: 57.51, Peak Torque: 35.13
YAMAHA YZ450F Peak HP: 55.30, Peak Torque: 33.61
KAWASAKI KX450 Peak HP: 54.34, 34.02
KTM 450SX-F Peak HP: 56.08, Peak Torque: 35.19
HUSQVARNA FC450 Peak HP: 55.43, Peak Torque: 34.46
SUZUKI RM-Z450 Peak HP: 52.53, Peak Torque: 34.06

Other than the Suzuki, none have less than 54 HP. In any case, even if that Yamaha 250 has 57-58HP it would obviously be very peaky and narrow and have none of the torque of a 450.
I’m not arguing, but if it has more HP than any 450 with almost half the displacement, I AM impressed.
1
FGR01
Profile picture for user FGR01
Posts
5112
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
1222nd
FGR01 3/23/2019 9:55am
3/23/2019 9:55am
observeroffacts wrote:
I’m not arguing, but if it has more HP than any 450 with almost half the displacement, I AM impressed.
Yeah, no doubt. It is impressive. Have to wonder about the costs involved and the service intervals on a 250F like that. Out of reach for anyone but the factories.
2
bvm111
Profile picture for user bvm111
Posts
9323
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
bvm111 3/23/2019 10:00am
3/23/2019 10:00am
Crush we need 450s because we are old fat lazy bastards and a stock 250f would blow up trying to lug my 235lbs mass around a track Tongue
6
Blade Flanagan jr. 3/23/2019 11:24am
3/23/2019 11:24am
observeroffacts wrote:
I’m not arguing, but if it has more HP than any 450 with almost half the displacement, I AM impressed.
FGR01 wrote:
Yeah, no doubt. It is impressive. Have to wonder about the costs involved and the service intervals on a 250F like that. Out of reach for...
Yeah, no doubt. It is impressive. Have to wonder about the costs involved and the service intervals on a 250F like that. Out of reach for anyone but the factories.
Full rebuilds at less than 5 hrs. in some cases.
lostboy819
Profile picture for user lostboy819
Posts
11509
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Somewhere, CO US
Fantasy
1442nd
lostboy819 3/23/2019 11:50am
3/23/2019 11:50am
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
Crush wrote:

Again, why do we need 450s?!
Because most riders dont want to spend 20k building a 250 motor to be competitive that will blow itself to pieces to make that kind of HP
4
lostboy819
Profile picture for user lostboy819
Posts
11509
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Somewhere, CO US
Fantasy
1442nd
lostboy819 3/23/2019 11:52am
3/23/2019 11:52am
McGrath said he got great starts when he was on Suzuki not because it was fast but because it was slow so he didnt have all the wheel spin. Cool
2

Pit Row

See All »
Tarz483
Profile picture for user Tarz483
Posts
6352
Joined
2/25/2009
Location
Mankato, MN US
Fantasy
583rd
Tarz483 3/23/2019 11:55am
3/23/2019 11:55am
We see How fast they are all the Time when a factory Rider falls in the first corner, and they are back in 10th after 1 lap and back in 4th after 2-3 laps
Ive always , Dis liked that about the sport (even though i love moto)
Ive always wished there was something done to keep the bikes more equal, The best riders also have a faster bike.
6
Nuffsaid
Profile picture for user Nuffsaid
Posts
573
Joined
3/24/2018
Location
Bakersfield, CA US
Nuffsaid 3/23/2019 12:13pm
3/23/2019 12:13pm
“The brightest candle always burns out first”.....ask Steve Dixon
2
Spudnut
Profile picture for user Spudnut
Posts
1946
Joined
6/25/2018
Location
WA US
Spudnut 3/23/2019 12:27pm
3/23/2019 12:27pm
No bro their slow, they put all that time and money In to them just so they’ll go slower
3
Raikzz
Profile picture for user Raikzz
Posts
106
Joined
7/5/2017
Location
EE
Raikzz 3/23/2019 12:54pm
3/23/2019 12:54pm
Probably transmission and suspension also pays a big role having a good start, putting power down better ?
rehan53
Profile picture for user rehan53
Posts
272
Joined
5/3/2018
Location
Henrico, VA US
rehan53 3/23/2019 12:55pm
3/23/2019 12:55pm
I got to ride one of the top team's outdoor 250s once and it had a ton of power but it was all on top. I know this can't be true, but it was like the thing pulled harder the faster it was already going. I never ran out of third gear. As a regular slow guy, I would choose a stock power package over the factory setup.
1
captmoto
Profile picture for user captmoto
Posts
5139
Joined
4/22/2009
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
captmoto 3/23/2019 1:03pm
3/23/2019 1:03pm
kb228 wrote:
You dont have to spend $15,000 on an engine to get power on a 450. Maintenance is less and you can detune them.
I think it was mentioned in last week's Supercross that Rockstar was working on detuning detuning Wilson's FC450. The bikes are tuned to the specific rider to perfection. The goal is almost always getting as much power to the ground as possible.
lawson34
Profile picture for user lawson34
Posts
720
Joined
1/19/2019
Location
London, KY US
lawson34 3/23/2019 5:18pm
3/23/2019 5:18pm
Twisted devolment head dude said in this months issue of mxa 450's are up over 70 hp... I know procircuit Kawasaki 250f's have a 2 hour clock on each engine
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 3/23/2019 6:14pm
3/23/2019 6:14pm
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
Crush wrote:

Again, why do we need 450s?!
lostboy819 wrote:
Because most riders dont want to spend 20k building a 250 motor to be competitive that will blow itself to pieces to make that kind of...
Because most riders dont want to spend 20k building a 250 motor to be competitive that will blow itself to pieces to make that kind of HP
Who are these most riders? Shouldn't we be looking at things that can help overall participation in the sport rather than than these few people who buy a modern 250F and think I can't win on this at Chicken Licks in the 250 class, it's just too slow. Jimmy has a pipe!
3
c0ncEpT
Profile picture for user c0ncEpT
Posts
1269
Joined
5/13/2015
Location
Harrison Twp., MI US
c0ncEpT 3/23/2019 7:00pm
3/23/2019 7:00pm
3+hp per cubic inch is no joke power out of any naturally aspirated engine. It takes a real serious price to make that kind of power. Factory 250's are extremely impressive IMO.
BigMunster 3/23/2019 7:09pm
3/23/2019 7:09pm
observeroffacts wrote:
Well, according to the post above, Dan Reardon confirms that factory Yamaha 250s have more HP than stock 450s. Yikes
Crush wrote:

Again, why do we need 450s?!
kb228 wrote:
You dont have to spend $15,000 on an engine to get power on a 450. Maintenance is less and you can detune them.
Didnt Dean Wilson downtune his 450 last week.
1
Derpin' DJ
Profile picture for user Derpin' DJ
Posts
6307
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle AU
Fantasy
2797th
Derpin' DJ 3/23/2019 7:46pm
3/23/2019 7:46pm
What kind of rpms are they doing? I think I recall the Dixon Yamaha's doing close to 18,000. It'd be interesting to know if the added power came primarily from increased torque or if the bikes just rev alot higher
Ranman68
Profile picture for user Ranman68
Posts
1143
Joined
1/31/2019
Location
Lubbock, TX US
Ranman68 3/24/2019 8:08pm
3/24/2019 8:08pm
450s have so much power in stock form that I doubt the factory bikes have much on them in peak HP numbers. The facory bikes are just dialed in to the rider as far as power delivery. Gear ratios in transmissions altered to suit rider, etc. More power than stock no doubt, but not a drastic difference. From what I read, Webb's engine isnt far off at all from stock. Maybe with heavier riders like Herlings and on outdoor tracks, factory teams pull out the stops more and factory bikes have a greater HP advantage over stock.
250 factory bikes no doubt are significantly faster than stock, since a stock bike doesn't make near the power of what a factory rider can use. I'm sure ACs bike (Pro circuit with factory shit) is way quicker than a stock KX250.
On the start, factory riders make up the difference on non factory guys with sheer ability for the most part in the 450 class. In the 250 class, it's the same thing but they have a greater power advantage.
1

Post a reply to: Are Factory bikes really that fast?