Are 2-strokes banned in California?

Moto Nomad wrote:

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022." They are...

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022."
They are trying to drive new technology. Maybe the manufacturers will respond. The new regime isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world. They could build a two-stroke that meets the standards.
CARB only does what the state Legislature tells them to do- they are charged by elected officials to reduce emissions.

Moto Nomad wrote:

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022." They are...

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022."
They are trying to drive new technology. Maybe the manufacturers will respond. The new regime isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world. They could build a two-stroke that meets the standards.
CARB only does what the state Legislature tells them to do- they are charged by elected officials to reduce emissions.

Moto Nomad wrote:

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022." They are...

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022."
They are trying to drive new technology. Maybe the manufacturers will respond. The new regime isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world. They could build a two-stroke that meets the standards.
CARB only does what the state Legislature tells them to do- they are charged by elected officials to reduce emissions.

Johnny Depp wrote:

Afaik no 2t has ever passed CA rules. The sensors get fouled by oil before they can complete the test.

Moto Nomad wrote:

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022." They are...

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022."
They are trying to drive new technology. Maybe the manufacturers will respond. The new regime isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world. They could build a two-stroke that meets the standards.
CARB only does what the state Legislature tells them to do- they are charged by elected officials to reduce emissions.

Johnny Depp wrote:

Afaik no 2t has ever passed CA rules. The sensors get fouled by oil before they can complete the test.

TeamGreen wrote:

Carson Valley
Nevada

ShawdowGlen wrote:

I'm ready to go. Problem is...we have too many ties here right now. San Diego is just about as perfect as a place to live (taking...

I'm ready to go. Problem is...we have too many ties here right now.

San Diego is just about as perfect as a place to live (taking all the congestion, bullshit and governing out of it). I'm 10 minutes from the back country, back roads. We love taking our (pedal) bikes to Coronado and ride.(20 minutes away). The food is amazing.... I live for ethnic food. That will be a hard thing to leave.

Moto Nomad wrote:

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022." They are...

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022."
They are trying to drive new technology. Maybe the manufacturers will respond. The new regime isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world. They could build a two-stroke that meets the standards.
CARB only does what the state Legislature tells them to do- they are charged by elected officials to reduce emissions.

YZ1254LIFE wrote:

I know what you mean. I read an article yesterday that said a 2-stroke on a 50 mile ride polluted 30% more than a car that...

I know what you mean. I read an article yesterday that said a 2-stroke on a 50 mile ride polluted 30% more than a car that drove 500+ miles.

captain.olives wrote:

I'm not a scientist or an engineer, but have followed this saga for a number of years including reading all the publicly available presentations by CARB...

I'm not a scientist or an engineer, but have followed this saga for a number of years including reading all the publicly available presentations by CARB. There is no two stroke, including TPI's, currently available that will come close to meeting the CARB or even US emissions standards. Euro standards they meet are very different than US standards and the pollutants they are trying to reduce. Perhaps direct injection, which is very different than TPI. But there is no DI dirtbike technology at this time that I am aware of that would meet it. KTM didnt use it for a reason.

If someone knows different, please share. This is my understanding of it.

CARB is well aware of it and knows the reality is no more two strokes offroad. Their statement was pure politics to redirect blame to the manufacturers for not coming out with some new non existent technology in my opinion.

This isn't an attempt to drive new technology to market. CARB made the same argument in their attempt to drive the manufacturers to provide more emissions compliant dirt bikes (green sticker) bikes to the market. It had the opposite affect, manufacturers simply recertified new models as non compliant (red sticker) bikes. More red stickers models and fewer green sticker models. CARB is also aware of this, and one of the major reasons the Red Sticker programs is being axed. Again, this is my understanding of it. By no means an expert.

I was under the impression that the CARB rules adopted at the end of 2019 meant no more two strokes sold in CA after model year 2021. I spent a couple of hours trying to find it again, but was unsuccessful. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could actually chime in.

I do know that unless CA SB 227 is passed, none of us will be riding 2022 model year or newer non emission compliant competition bikes (Red Sticker) on public land in California. Two or Four stroke.

Moto Nomad wrote:

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022." They are...

I see this: "Manufacturers must decide whether to bring cleaner 2-stroke models to the California market once the Red Sticker program ends in 2022."
They are trying to drive new technology. Maybe the manufacturers will respond. The new regime isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world. They could build a two-stroke that meets the standards.
CARB only does what the state Legislature tells them to do- they are charged by elected officials to reduce emissions.

captain.olives wrote:

I'm not a scientist or an engineer, but have followed this saga for a number of years including reading all the publicly available presentations by CARB...

I'm not a scientist or an engineer, but have followed this saga for a number of years including reading all the publicly available presentations by CARB. There is no two stroke, including TPI's, currently available that will come close to meeting the CARB or even US emissions standards. Euro standards they meet are very different than US standards and the pollutants they are trying to reduce. Perhaps direct injection, which is very different than TPI. But there is no DI dirtbike technology at this time that I am aware of that would meet it. KTM didnt use it for a reason.

If someone knows different, please share. This is my understanding of it.

CARB is well aware of it and knows the reality is no more two strokes offroad. Their statement was pure politics to redirect blame to the manufacturers for not coming out with some new non existent technology in my opinion.

This isn't an attempt to drive new technology to market. CARB made the same argument in their attempt to drive the manufacturers to provide more emissions compliant dirt bikes (green sticker) bikes to the market. It had the opposite affect, manufacturers simply recertified new models as non compliant (red sticker) bikes. More red stickers models and fewer green sticker models. CARB is also aware of this, and one of the major reasons the Red Sticker programs is being axed. Again, this is my understanding of it. By no means an expert.

I was under the impression that the CARB rules adopted at the end of 2019 meant no more two strokes sold in CA after model year 2021. I spent a couple of hours trying to find it again, but was unsuccessful. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could actually chime in.

I do know that unless CA SB 227 is passed, none of us will be riding 2022 model year or newer non emission compliant competition bikes (Red Sticker) on public land in California. Two or Four stroke.

SoCalMX70 wrote:

All bikes that cannot be certified as emissions compliant can still be sold as competition only vehicles (including 2 strokes). Every single current red sticker model...

All bikes that cannot be certified as emissions compliant can still be sold as competition only vehicles (including 2 strokes). Every single current red sticker model, if unchanged, will be sold as competition only starting next year.

SoCalMX70 wrote:

All bikes that cannot be certified as emissions compliant can still be sold as competition only vehicles (including 2 strokes). Every single current red sticker model...

All bikes that cannot be certified as emissions compliant can still be sold as competition only vehicles (including 2 strokes). Every single current red sticker model, if unchanged, will be sold as competition only starting next year.

captain.olives wrote:

That's good news. Not to be argumentative, do you have a source for this? I was looking for information all afternoon online including CARB website. Perhaps...

That's good news. Not to be argumentative, do you have a source for this? I was looking for information all afternoon online including CARB website. Perhaps my google skills are lacking.

That said, unless CA SB 227 is passed, it is still my understanding we will be limited to riding those bikes on private land only however. No issue for most MX guys, big deal for us offroad folks.

Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:

I’ll be surprised if this sport even exists in 10 years. The way climate change is getting pushed very hard now & tracks closing down. All...

I’ll be surprised if this sport even exists in 10 years. The way climate change is getting pushed very hard now & tracks closing down. All part of Agenda 2030 baby.

Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:

I’ll be surprised if this sport even exists in 10 years. The way climate change is getting pushed very hard now & tracks closing down. All...

I’ll be surprised if this sport even exists in 10 years. The way climate change is getting pushed very hard now & tracks closing down. All part of Agenda 2030 baby.

Motofinne wrote:

It will survive. You don't think the big manufacturers have prepared for this? They will all go under unless they come up with electric alternatives or...

It will survive. You don't think the big manufacturers have prepared for this? They will all go under unless they come up with electric alternatives or a major breakthrough with carbon-neutral fuel.

TeamGreen wrote:

Here's a strange stuff CARB was telling us at the hearings... They're expecting the manufacturers to put Exhaust and Evap systems on the competition type bikes...

Here's a strange stuff CARB was telling us at the hearings...

They're expecting the manufacturers to put Exhaust and Evap systems on the competition type bikes. Think of a CRF-R with a CRF-X cylinder head (with fresh-air system) and evap system on the gas-tank.

It's "doable'; but, it's more crap on the bike an more money.

Also, they've (CAR got a law on the books that pushes for ALL new ICE to have an evap-system on the gas tank in the near future.

I've had discussions with these people and they're "out of their F'ing minds" about "The Environment" and "Climate Change"...

YZ1254LIFE wrote:

What function would an evap have on a dirt bike? How can I get involved with these politics?

TeamGreen wrote:

The "Air-Heads", as I call them, are SOOOOOOO concerned with the evap that a bike does/the fuel does while it's sitting in your garage. That's why...

The "Air-Heads", as I call them, are SOOOOOOO concerned with the evap that a bike does/the fuel does while it's sitting in your garage. That's why EPA legal bikes have an Evap-Canister to catch all those evil vapors as they sneak out of your gas tank.

As for the politics? Shiiiit. I got some 'heads up' e-mail form the AMA/a few land use organizations & I followed thru. There were hearings thru-out the state.

There were a coupl'a Berkeley/UC/state of Cali science types on the gov't side of the hearings that tried to get super ubber-technical...I had a lot of fun with them . I asked for the metrics of dirt-bikes versus automobiles. They didn't have them...go figure, right? They were super excited about evap and "other" emissions stats...until you asked for supporting documentation. Then...? Well, they got PISSED!

They suck.

They suck...Bigly.

twotwosix wrote:

You can buy a 2-stroke, you just can't eat inside a restaurant with your family.

musrat88 wrote:

Still under lockdown? What the hell is wrong with that state?