Anyone heard of this??

mwssquad827
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Edited Date/Time 8/24/2022 11:04pm
An old timer says they used to put dish shop in the water truck before they would spray the track. He says that it helps keep the moisture in.. he says California and Arizona tracks did this in the 80’s and 90’s.. is he blowing smoke or what??
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hartebreak
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8/20/2022 10:52am
Makes sense. Soap is a surfactant which will allow the water to penetrate into the dirt particles.
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FastEddy
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8/20/2022 10:53am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2022 10:58am
An old timer says they used to put dish shop in the water truck before they would spray the track. He says that it helps keep...
An old timer says they used to put dish shop in the water truck before they would spray the track. He says that it helps keep the moisture in.. he says California and Arizona tracks did this in the 80’s and 90’s.. is he blowing smoke or what??
Heard it on here before.
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Track-Operators-Room,30/Track-Watering,6…

Checkout JustMX's 2nd post in that thread.
He breaks it down.
Tumic
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8/20/2022 10:58am
We have a indoor track here in Sweden. The track owner mixed soap in the clay to help with dust, but the clay became like rubber after that. I don’t know how to describe it but it was really strange to ride on.

The Shop

LoudLove
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8/20/2022 11:02am
hartebreak wrote:
Makes sense. Soap is a surfactant which will allow the water to penetrate into the dirt particles.
I had to look up “surfactant”. For the first time in 10 years, ladies and gentlemen, I leave Vital smarter than when I entered…
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Cygrace74
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8/20/2022 11:04am
As someone has already said it does help, well known in the turf industry to help with watering efficiency
8/20/2022 11:04am
hartebreak wrote:
Makes sense. Soap is a surfactant which will allow the water to penetrate into the dirt particles.
Exactly. The whole point of dish soap is to reduce the surface tension of the water, which would allow it to penetrate smaller particulate gaps.
mwssquad827
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8/20/2022 12:07pm
Thanks gentleman!! I rhought the old boy was bullshitting me!
lumpy790
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8/20/2022 12:41pm
Do they put it in the water truck before or after putting the water in? Grinning
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crt32
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8/20/2022 12:45pm
Heard a track in Oklahoma started doing that, and I will say their dirt is alot softer now 🤷
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JustMX
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8/20/2022 5:22pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Do they put it in the water truck before or after putting the water in? Grinning
depends on if your water truck is colors or white, delicate or wash and wear......
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monkeybut417
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8/20/2022 6:44pm
How much soap would it take tho? Say for like an Arenacross track. We talking 5 gallons or 50 gallons of soap.
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sandhills
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8/20/2022 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2022 6:50pm
Calcium chloride would be a better product for this, but you need a lot of it.

Pouring a costco bottle of dish soap in a whole water truck is snake oil.
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APLMAN99
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8/20/2022 6:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2022 6:53pm
Dish soap is not a great surfactant, but it is better than nothing. I throw some in my handheld weed sprayer for a little better kill down of stubborn weeds.

Go to your local farm chemical supply dealer and ask for the good stuff. It’s extremely expensive, extremely concentrated, and you’ll want to wear gloves and goggles while handling it. A good organosilicone surfactant will help penetrate the surface a bit, but it’s going to cost you a lot too.
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MaxPower
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8/20/2022 7:09pm
They should spray the track with diesel if they really cared about racers riding in dust
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CPR
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8/20/2022 7:31pm
There’s heaps of commercial grade soil wetters available, most aimed at the garden industry, but they work awesome on moto tracks.
They’re made for soils that repel water instead of absorbing it (called hydrophobic), especially sandy soils or clay that has dried out. You’re better off treating the track during prep, not on race day and in my experience granular wetters spread with a fertiliser spreader across the track and then watered in, works better than liquid wetters added to the water. It also works out cheaper that way.
It costs a bit, but a good treatment lasts months and is worth the investment imo.
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smoothies862
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8/20/2022 7:41pm
Flashback to studying for water license😅 I also had a turf guy tell me to add dawn to weed killer.
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TbonesPop
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8/20/2022 8:03pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2022 8:04pm
Tumic wrote:
We have a indoor track here in Sweden. The track owner mixed soap in the clay to help with dust, but the clay became like rubber...
We have a indoor track here in Sweden. The track owner mixed soap in the clay to help with dust, but the clay became like rubber after that. I don’t know how to describe it but it was really strange to ride on.
That sounds more like a dust control agent. Most common is calcium chloride (commodity), but a "rubber" feel in the dirt would mean possibly more like a paraffin resin type dust control product. Neither of these would be good for the dirt in terms of quality of riding - good for dust control but bad for riders. Neither of those are soaps. Soaps are surfactants designed to reduce surface tension. I could see how a soap might help a little, but I'm not sure it would make THAT much of a difference. Just don't add lime. Woohoo
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SEEMEFIRST
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8/20/2022 8:12pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Do they put it in the water truck before or after putting the water in? Grinning
JustMX wrote:
depends on if your water truck is colors or white, delicate or wash and wear......
We put the truck on delicate.
It helps for the fresh aroma.
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goinrcn44h
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8/20/2022 8:29pm
hartebreak wrote:
Makes sense. Soap is a surfactant which will allow the water to penetrate into the dirt particles.
Is it not also a floculent which binds dirt particles together. A floculent is commonly used to bind dirt for better filtration properties in pool filters. Binder and surfacant
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Bill_Carroll
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8/20/2022 8:38pm
An old timer says they used to put dish shop in the water truck before they would spray the track. He says that it helps keep...
An old timer says they used to put dish shop in the water truck before they would spray the track. He says that it helps keep the moisture in.. he says California and Arizona tracks did this in the 80’s and 90’s.. is he blowing smoke or what??
Makes sense
We put it in Mortar to keep it from setting up too fast in hot weather.
It would take gallons to put on a track..dono if thats a profitable solution rather than water the track between moto's?
maybe hit it hard before the season then keep discing it up with water?
JustMX
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8/21/2022 3:22am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2022 3:24am
sandhills wrote:
Calcium chloride would be a better product for this, but you need a lot of it. Pouring a costco bottle of dish soap in a whole...
Calcium chloride would be a better product for this, but you need a lot of it.

Pouring a costco bottle of dish soap in a whole water truck is snake oil.
But wouldn't calcium chloride cause the track surface to harden up and tend to get more blue groove?

the guys I talked to from the car tracks always swore by powdered laundry detergent.

I did a non-scientific test at a hard pack night track I had where I used powdered, liquid, and nothing.

I watered about dark one night and came back and looked at it the next morning.

the stuff I hit with the powder was noticeably darker than where i used the liquid, where it was hard to tell any difference from the sections I hit with just water.

it seemed like the powder foamed up less too, and I liked my water trucks with less of a head on them.

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TbonesPop
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8/22/2022 9:09pm
sandhills wrote:
Calcium chloride would be a better product for this, but you need a lot of it. Pouring a costco bottle of dish soap in a whole...
Calcium chloride would be a better product for this, but you need a lot of it.

Pouring a costco bottle of dish soap in a whole water truck is snake oil.
JustMX wrote:
But wouldn't calcium chloride cause the track surface to harden up and tend to get more blue groove? the guys I talked to from the car...
But wouldn't calcium chloride cause the track surface to harden up and tend to get more blue groove?

the guys I talked to from the car tracks always swore by powdered laundry detergent.

I did a non-scientific test at a hard pack night track I had where I used powdered, liquid, and nothing.

I watered about dark one night and came back and looked at it the next morning.

the stuff I hit with the powder was noticeably darker than where i used the liquid, where it was hard to tell any difference from the sections I hit with just water.

it seemed like the powder foamed up less too, and I liked my water trucks with less of a head on them.

To answer your top question, yes the calcium chloride would make the top layer very crusty and harder on top. Would definitely be a weird feel to ride on, not good for moto.
crusher773
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8/22/2022 9:31pm
crt32 wrote:
Heard a track in Oklahoma started doing that, and I will say their dirt is alot softer now 🤷
Which one just curious.
Harv379
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8/22/2022 10:01pm
That or and laundry softener. R/C racing does this on their dirt tracks often sometimes with other things to help keep the surface together.
robkinuk
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8/23/2022 3:28am
Apparently the South African Police put laundry detergent in their crowd control water trucks . They say it stops the colours from running 😉🤣🤣🤣
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mwssquad827
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8/24/2022 11:03pm
robkinuk wrote:
Apparently the South African Police put laundry detergent in their crowd control water trucks . They say it stops the colours from running 😉🤣🤣🤣
Wow!!! To much

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