Any more news on new RM125?

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2/20/2019 3:26 PM

As stated, any more news on that RM125 engine into 19 RMZ250 chassis proto that was spotted recently?

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2/20/2019 3:29 PM

I wish they would bring it back with the old steel frame with new plastic and suspension and more HP.
2 stroke + aluminum frame = vibration.

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2/20/2019 4:37 PM

Underground wrote:

As stated, any more news on that RM125 engine into 19 RMZ250 chassis proto that was spotted recently?

On Pulp, him and Keefer were saying it's a crate engine, that will be sold to bolt on. Maybe in the future they will sell it.

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2/20/2019 4:37 PM

Underground wrote:

As stated, any more news on that RM125 engine into 19 RMZ250 chassis proto that was spotted recently?

No gnews is good gnews....with Gary Gnu laughing

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2/21/2019 6:20 AM

hayes13 wrote:

On Pulp, him and Keefer were saying it's a crate engine, that will be sold to bolt on. Maybe in the future they will sell it.

Yeah, right.

So let me get this straight.

You have to purchase a new '19 RMZ250 and then have the dealer order a 125 crate motor from Suzuki. In order to keep any sort of Mfg warranty intact, the dealer will have to do the motor swap.

The wiring harness and ECU for an RMZ will not be compatible for an RM motor. The fuel pump is no longer needed. Will need new motor mounts, air box adapters, exhaust system. The suspension is going to be out of balance because of the significant weight difference between the motors.

Just want to illustrate how ridiculous this "crate motor kit" is idea is. Someone would drop $12-$14K easily by the time you buy a '19, order a crate "kit" 125 RM motor, and then pay for dealer labor to swap.

It's much more realistic that Suzuki would just update the last gen RM motors and then make them compatible to drop directly into an RMZ250 frame.

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2/21/2019 6:35 AM

If the leadership at suzuki had any brain power at all, they would cook up a competitive 350 four stroke, a 300 two stroke and possibly 125. But, being one of the japanese "big 4", they will continue to follow the leader, be it Honda or Yamaha , and continue to suck wind

The better question for some of the two stroke dreamers , why don't you just go buy a european bike? you are oftern spending cubic dollars restoring old crap heaps and doing old japanese engine swaps (into newer chassis).

Wake up!!!! there are plenty of new two strokes....lighter/better/faster/nicer than the old japanese crap you remember

The japanese dont care that you like two strokes...aside from Yamaha. Yamaha cares just enough to rehash the same old, forever

Go buy a euro bike

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ride

2/21/2019 6:44 AM

Underground wrote:

As stated, any more news on that RM125 engine into 19 RMZ250 chassis proto that was spotted recently?

hayes13 wrote:

On Pulp, him and Keefer were saying it's a crate engine, that will be sold to bolt on. Maybe in the future they will sell it.

mxtech1 wrote:

Yeah, right.

So let me get this straight.

You have to purchase a new '19 RMZ250 and then have the dealer order a 125 crate motor from Suzuki. In order to keep any sort of Mfg warranty intact, the dealer will have to do the motor swap.

The wiring harness and ECU for an RMZ will not be compatible for an RM motor. The fuel pump is no longer needed. Will need new motor mounts, air box adapters, exhaust system. The suspension is going to be out of balance because of the significant weight difference between the motors.

Just want to illustrate how ridiculous this "crate motor kit" is idea is. Someone would drop $12-$14K easily by the time you buy a '19, order a crate "kit" 125 RM motor, and then pay for dealer labor to swap.

It's much more realistic that Suzuki would just update the last gen RM motors and then make them compatible to drop directly into an RMZ250 frame.

What Keefer was talking about is what I was also told on a Suzuki Japan trip over two years ago...the plan was some sort of kit and the 250's center port exhaust was part of the reason for this. It was made sort of clear that a complete as-is 125 wasn't going to be sold...however, I wonder if someone like Cernics could do some sort of order of engine kits and frames/parts to build them without the need for a complete 250...I figure that would be too expensive but we will see.

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2/21/2019 6:47 AM

user760a wrote:

If the leadership at suzuki had any brain power at all, they would cook up a competitive 350 four stroke, a 300 two stroke and possibly 125. But, being one of the japanese "big 4", they will continue to follow the leader, be it Honda or Yamaha , and continue to suck wind

The better question for some of the two stroke dreamers , why don't you just go buy a european bike? you are oftern spending cubic dollars restoring old crap heaps and doing old japanese engine swaps (into newer chassis).

Wake up!!!! there are plenty of new two strokes....lighter/better/faster/nicer than the old japanese crap you remember

The japanese dont care that you like two strokes...aside from Yamaha. Yamaha cares just enough to rehash the same old, forever

Go buy a euro bike

Some of us like Japanese "crap". Some of us will never buy a Euro bike. A LOT of us.

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2017 CRF450r

2/21/2019 7:10 AM

How would it be legal to race? I wouldn't be homologated for racing.

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2/21/2019 7:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2019 7:15 AM

user760a wrote:

If the leadership at suzuki had any brain power at all, they would cook up a competitive 350 four stroke, a 300 two stroke and possibly 125. But, being one of the japanese "big 4", they will continue to follow the leader, be it Honda or Yamaha , and continue to suck wind

The better question for some of the two stroke dreamers , why don't you just go buy a european bike? you are oftern spending cubic dollars restoring old crap heaps and doing old japanese engine swaps (into newer chassis).

Wake up!!!! there are plenty of new two strokes....lighter/better/faster/nicer than the old japanese crap you remember

The japanese dont care that you like two strokes...aside from Yamaha. Yamaha cares just enough to rehash the same old, forever

Go buy a euro bike

MOTO732 wrote:

Some of us like Japanese "crap". Some of us will never buy a Euro bike. A LOT of us.

the "japanese crap" comment is directed toward the old two strokes people insist on resuscitating repeatedly so that they can re-live their youth. Not all japanese bikes.

Anyone who wants an actual competitive, modern two stroke should just buy a euro bike. that's my point. give your business to the companies that actually seem to care what the buyer wants

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ride

2/21/2019 7:24 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

How would it be legal to race? I wouldn't be homologated for racing.

Sure it would.

Suzuki would classify it as an RM125. Even though it's basically an RMZ250, the frame serials would have a different numbering/lettering scheme to make a unique tie for the 125 motor.

If Suzuki offers a unique bundle that's assembled by Suzuki Motor of America, or a 3rd party like Cernics, the bike would be "production-based" and eligible for competition.

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2/21/2019 7:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2019 7:30 AM

This is a bit of a stretch but I wonder....

If KTM's TPI system was released (in part) due to the increasingly stringent Euro emissions regulations...

...and Europe actually has a legit 2-stroke series (EMX 125), along with individual country series where 125s are still "a thing"....

then is it possible, that unless you are grandfathered in (YZ125, etc), any new model bike released must meet the new emissions rules? Is it possible that the crate motor idea is a way to get around some crazy Euro rules whilst getting your bike out there racing in some legit national and international series? And the US market is just along for the ride?

Ahhh....but you say that Europe is nowhere near the dirt bike market that the USA is. That may be true. But when it comes to 125cc bikes, the USA lacks a platform (race series) for the bike to be showcased.

Before you all slap me down with your vital-knowledge, be advised that I know what a stretch, this line of thinking is. I'm merely posing the question, not asserting facts.

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2/21/2019 7:35 AM

The sad thing is, the last version (2006/2007) RM125 was a very good bike. They could simply build those again with updated plastic (like the new polisport kit) and it would be a great beginner level 125.

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2/21/2019 7:37 AM

user760a wrote:

If the leadership at suzuki had any brain power at all, they would cook up a competitive 350 four stroke, a 300 two stroke and possibly 125. But, being one of the japanese "big 4", they will continue to follow the leader, be it Honda or Yamaha , and continue to suck wind

The better question for some of the two stroke dreamers , why don't you just go buy a european bike? you are oftern spending cubic dollars restoring old crap heaps and doing old japanese engine swaps (into newer chassis).

Wake up!!!! there are plenty of new two strokes....lighter/better/faster/nicer than the old japanese crap you remember

The japanese dont care that you like two strokes...aside from Yamaha. Yamaha cares just enough to rehash the same old, forever

Go buy a euro bike

MOTO732 wrote:

Some of us like Japanese "crap". Some of us will never buy a Euro bike. A LOT of us.

user760a wrote:

the "japanese crap" comment is directed toward the old two strokes people insist on resuscitating repeatedly so that they can re-live their youth. Not all japanese bikes.

Anyone who wants an actual competitive, modern two stroke should just buy a euro bike. that's my point. give your business to the companies that actually seem to care what the buyer wants

I paid $1500 for my 05 YZ250 and $1500 completely rebuilding it and that included new plastic and graphics. Please tell me where I would find a competitive Euro bike as fresh as mine is now with suspension set for me and my one of graphics for $3000.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/21/2019 7:38 AM

MOTO732 wrote:

Some of us like Japanese "crap". Some of us will never buy a Euro bike. A LOT of us.

user760a wrote:

the "japanese crap" comment is directed toward the old two strokes people insist on resuscitating repeatedly so that they can re-live their youth. Not all japanese bikes.

Anyone who wants an actual competitive, modern two stroke should just buy a euro bike. that's my point. give your business to the companies that actually seem to care what the buyer wants

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I paid $1500 for my 05 YZ250 and $1500 completely rebuilding it and that included new plastic and graphics. Please tell me where I would find a competitive Euro bike as fresh as mine is now with suspension set for me and my one of graphics for $3000.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

I did make a little exception for Yamaha....see above.

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ride

2/21/2019 7:42 AM

hayes13 wrote:

On Pulp, him and Keefer were saying it's a crate engine, that will be sold to bolt on. Maybe in the future they will sell it.

mxtech1 wrote:

Yeah, right.

So let me get this straight.

You have to purchase a new '19 RMZ250 and then have the dealer order a 125 crate motor from Suzuki. In order to keep any sort of Mfg warranty intact, the dealer will have to do the motor swap.

The wiring harness and ECU for an RMZ will not be compatible for an RM motor. The fuel pump is no longer needed. Will need new motor mounts, air box adapters, exhaust system. The suspension is going to be out of balance because of the significant weight difference between the motors.

Just want to illustrate how ridiculous this "crate motor kit" is idea is. Someone would drop $12-$14K easily by the time you buy a '19, order a crate "kit" 125 RM motor, and then pay for dealer labor to swap.

It's much more realistic that Suzuki would just update the last gen RM motors and then make them compatible to drop directly into an RMZ250 frame.

ML512 wrote:

What Keefer was talking about is what I was also told on a Suzuki Japan trip over two years ago...the plan was some sort of kit and the 250's center port exhaust was part of the reason for this. It was made sort of clear that a complete as-is 125 wasn't going to be sold...however, I wonder if someone like Cernics could do some sort of order of engine kits and frames/parts to build them without the need for a complete 250...I figure that would be too expensive but we will see.

I get their thinking and I'm interested to see how it turns out, but I don't quite see how this was completely thought out. Maybe I'm missing something since we don't have all the info yet, but I just don't see it quite being worth it yet. I hope they decide to sell them as a complete bike! I'd buy one at that point!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

2/21/2019 7:43 AM

ML512 wrote:

What Keefer was talking about is what I was also told on a Suzuki Japan trip over two years ago...the plan was some sort of kit and the 250's center port exhaust was part of the reason for this. It was made sort of clear that a complete as-is 125 wasn't going to be sold...however, I wonder if someone like Cernics could do some sort of order of engine kits and frames/parts to build them without the need for a complete 250...I figure that would be too expensive but we will see.

This is more realistic.

Think about buying a car. You order a certain motor, transmission, trim package, etc. which leads to a high amount of optionality for any given model. The OEM has a unique set of material gathering numbers (Bill of Material) that enables the right parts to be available for the assembly line to produce that configuration. Once that car order is entered into the system, the OEM's main frame starts driving demand for the base parts + the parts unique to the selected options.

Suzuki already has the proven capability to do this within their auto industry.

Honda is a good example of putting this into play recently. Think about the offroad and Works Edition bikes. Same base package, but a different configuration of bolt-ons. This leads to several "new" models that aren't really unique, just a different play off the base model. Yamaha has also jumped on this bandwagon with the offroad models. My honest opinion is that the Jap OEMs are being forced to match KTM's optionality or else they will continue to lose market share.

For those savvy in manufacturing, we are starting to see a trend that the OEM's are more open to different configurations of each particular model that can be ran down the same assembly line. Do I think Suzuki is going to mass produce RM125s? No....but I could see in the near feature the opportunity to walk into a dealership, "order" an RM125 and then it is built to order.


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2/21/2019 11:35 AM

Suzuki can be so tight lipped at times, the new 250f is surposed to have an app for ecu mapping but still just a rumour. I wouldn't be surprised if the ecu and the 125 option are true

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2/21/2019 12:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2019 12:05 PM

If it was sold (crate engine, since that seems to be the angle this is headed) say as a "kit"? Meaning, everything needed to convert the current 250f platform over to a 125. New fuel tank, wiring harness, airbox, brackets, etc, all in one conversion kit that could completely change the bike from one to the other in little time. Literally plug-n-play so to speak..... Offer the kit at a steep discount to those buying a new 250f to further their number of yellow fenders on the starting line. Offer the kit also to be retrofitted on older models with just a few accessory changes to the kits core.....
Just some simple mental thoughts I had while eating my lunch. Could work? Who knows.... Probably will never happen. Sounds like fun though......Bash away

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2/21/2019 12:29 PM

From what I understand it is mainly for the rmarmy (Suzuki factory riders) kids to have a stepping stone from 85 to 250 for the amateur races I don’t think the locals will buy it but it will be another option to buy. Guy told me about it a month ago and I told him that he was crazy Suzuki would not bring back the two strokes then it popped up on vital them testing it so there is some truth to it.

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2/21/2019 12:39 PM

I'm thinking that if they do the work to develop this "crate engine package", it isn't much more to change around their production line from when they finish the RMZ250 production run to install said 2T parts instead of the 4T parts (engine, exhaust, electrics, pos radiators and maybe suspension with different settings which it definitely needs going on test feedback for little guys) , and do a limited run to test the waters much like the new YZ mini's did. Only way affordable for mine. We'll see I guess.

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2/21/2019 1:44 PM

You guys are reading way too much into this. Suzuki, like all the other OEMs, sometimes tests one-off bikes to see if they are viable.
The presence of an RM125-powered RM-Z250 bike at a track isn't necessarily proof that there will be anything remotely like it for sale anytime soon. The kit idea would be cool, but I don't see Suzuki doing it. If they ever decide to reintroduce a 2-stroke big bike, it will be just that: an entire bike.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

2/21/2019 1:56 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2019 2:00 PM

I could see some yahoo swapping out a 3.5 HP crap go kart's motor for this, and forgetting about brakes and handling. Actually sounds like fun.

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2/21/2019 1:58 PM

I'm going to bet if this "crate motor" is sold it will be an item geared twords the RM 85 racers to be able to have a transition bike. Not really for 40 year old Joe Smith to relive his 125 glory days.

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2/21/2019 2:33 PM

Rotaholic wrote:

Suzuki can be so tight lipped at times, the new 250f is surposed to have an app for ecu mapping but still just a rumour. I wouldn't be surprised if the ecu and the 125 option are true

ECU tuner is true, it’s stuff they got from GET. It wasn’t near finalized when we went to Japan to test the bike so it didn’t get brought up,

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2/21/2019 2:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2019 2:37 PM

Falcon wrote:

You guys are reading way too much into this. Suzuki, like all the other OEMs, sometimes tests one-off bikes to see if they are viable.
The presence of an RM125-powered RM-Z250 bike at a track isn't necessarily proof that there will be anything remotely like it for sale anytime soon. The kit idea would be cool, but I don't see Suzuki doing it. If they ever decide to reintroduce a 2-stroke big bike, it will be just that: an entire bike.

More than likely you're correct. The thing that keeps me wondering about the whole mess are the pics of this "project bike" have Suzuki people standing all around it. Not to mention, it was transported in one of their rigs. Too many people around one bike just to be there to tighten spokes, and lube a chain...... They are up to something for sure.

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2/21/2019 3:12 PM

Falcon wrote:

You guys are reading way too much into this. Suzuki, like all the other OEMs, sometimes tests one-off bikes to see if they are viable.
The presence of an RM125-powered RM-Z250 bike at a track isn't necessarily proof that there will be anything remotely like it for sale anytime soon. The kit idea would be cool, but I don't see Suzuki doing it. If they ever decide to reintroduce a 2-stroke big bike, it will be just that: an entire bike.

True. But ML512, Keefer and Matthes all indicated they had heard from Suzuki themselves that it is in the pipeline. Thats the most rock solid indication that it could be happening yet.

I'm not sure how many they'll sell outside of kitting out a few amateur sponsored hotshots though. But atleast Suzuki are thinking outside the box a little.

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2/21/2019 3:32 PM

The hilarious thing is, if they literally kept the old frame, put some updated suspension and a motor in it, they'd sell out.

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Cheers, Crush
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2/21/2019 3:44 PM

Rotaholic wrote:

Suzuki can be so tight lipped at times, the new 250f is surposed to have an app for ecu mapping but still just a rumour. I wouldn't be surprised if the ecu and the 125 option are true

ML512 wrote:

ECU tuner is true, it’s stuff they got from GET. It wasn’t near finalized when we went to Japan to test the bike so it didn’t get brought up,

..wasn't brought up wink

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2/21/2019 3:57 PM

Falcon wrote:

You guys are reading way too much into this. Suzuki, like all the other OEMs, sometimes tests one-off bikes to see if they are viable.
The presence of an RM125-powered RM-Z250 bike at a track isn't necessarily proof that there will be anything remotely like it for sale anytime soon. The kit idea would be cool, but I don't see Suzuki doing it. If they ever decide to reintroduce a 2-stroke big bike, it will be just that: an entire bike.

Thats what I'm thinking.

It would be a lot easier for Suzuki to drop the 125 engine into the 250f roller at the factory.

Why go to the hassle of designing and providing crate engine kits for the mass public?

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