Any altitude fitness experts?

crowe176
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Edited Date/Time 6/3/2020 6:16pm
Getting straight to the point, if a rider struggled Sunday night with the altitude and heat, is it wrong to think they might have a hard time recovering fast enough to improve their finish 3 days later? Or Will there be guys just having a harder time each race, or will they be acclimated fairly quick.

Wondering if it’s like the Florida National last year where guys like Sexton had to pull off because of heat exhaustion and hearing they didn’t feel right for a couple of weeks.

I’m curious if this will only get easier for ET3 as the series goes on, or can we expect CW2 and Ken to be competitive up until the last race.
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Bultaco
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6/3/2020 3:34am
Mountaineering is the athletic discipline that has experience with altitude. Look up anything from Dr Peter Hackett. In general the more time you spend at altitude, the better acclimated your body becomes. Your blood pH changes in response. I don’t know how pH is significant, but remember reading it was a key to being acclimated.

Your question, yes a rider will progress with time. Everyone’s response is different. Any one person’s response can be different from one trip to altitude to the next.
Tuna
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6/3/2020 3:43am
I’m no expert but years ago I went from living at sea level to working in a town at 4000 ft. The highest we skied was 8000 feet. The first time I hiked to the peak I thought I was gonna die! Took me a couple weeks to acclimate and then I started training at 4000 feet. Definitely felt like a stud when I went back to sea level after 6 months.
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KX500
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6/3/2020 5:54am
Certainly not an expert, but have read in many places things like 'yes a rider will progress with time' and have no reason to doubt this is true. I would assume this amounts to: exert yourself, get sufficient rest, then go again - repeat, repeat....

However, in the SX race scenario, these athletes are not getting normal recovery time before the next event.

I have to wonder how much this slows down that progress with getting used to altitude?

I can't help but think, if they were tired Sunday (but not normally very tired after a low altitude SX), it's going to have a cumulative effect - they may be even more tired after the next race & the next.

Six more races - we'll see.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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6/3/2020 7:57am
I’m not an expert, but spent a lot of years in the mountains. 2 days for recovery is at high elevation is not a lot, but SLC being 4000 Ft isn’t that bad. They might not be 100% by today’s race but should be back to normal by Sunday’s race.

If I was out there, obviously drinking a ton of water helps and IVs will bounce you back(but illegal with wada) but I’d assume some of the top guys are using portable hyperbaric chambers, unless that’s illegal with WADa? A lot of top football and basketball players travel with them for recovery. I’ve used it a few times and it’s pretty cool.

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The Shop

Ramrod
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6/3/2020 9:03am
These 7 sx races will be an interesting experiment in the athlete's fitness. Big advantage has to go to Eli.
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Falcon
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6/3/2020 1:35pm
Except for the fact that this is Vital and everybody's an expert, I'm no expert on altitude. However, the times I've raced at Mammoth, I definitely noticed an overall feeling of fatigue - much more so than just during the races. I was shot for hours afterward and definitely felt it the next day.
FGR01
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6/3/2020 2:46pm
I’m not an expert, but spent a lot of years in the mountains. 2 days for recovery is at high elevation is not a lot, but...
I’m not an expert, but spent a lot of years in the mountains. 2 days for recovery is at high elevation is not a lot, but SLC being 4000 Ft isn’t that bad. They might not be 100% by today’s race but should be back to normal by Sunday’s race.

If I was out there, obviously drinking a ton of water helps and IVs will bounce you back(but illegal with wada) but I’d assume some of the top guys are using portable hyperbaric chambers, unless that’s illegal with WADa? A lot of top football and basketball players travel with them for recovery. I’ve used it a few times and it’s pretty cool.

I thought IV's were only banned at the track or the day of the event? Are they now banned full time for the riders under WADA?
ACBraap
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6/3/2020 2:50pm
mid 4K is not really high enough to be an issue, IMO. It is high enough to feel the effect on the engine though. Even Denver at a mile isn't terrible IMO, but going up to places like Breckenridge where mtb rides start in the mid 9ks and only go up is a shock to the system (I live at 900 ft).

Frankly, if a rider suffered in dry heat at 4500 of elevation, they are really going to suffer when the nationals start. The dryness of high desert combined with some heat and a little elevation does make staying hydrated difficult.

All that said, the mention of a lot of riders staying in Park City makes sense, and hopefully they are doing their training at lower elevations. The idea being to work out with as much oxygen as possible, and sleep with less, training the body to produce more red blood cells, as or as known in cycling 'train low sleep high'.
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ACBraap
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6/3/2020 2:54pm
I’m not an expert, but spent a lot of years in the mountains. 2 days for recovery is at high elevation is not a lot, but...
I’m not an expert, but spent a lot of years in the mountains. 2 days for recovery is at high elevation is not a lot, but SLC being 4000 Ft isn’t that bad. They might not be 100% by today’s race but should be back to normal by Sunday’s race.

If I was out there, obviously drinking a ton of water helps and IVs will bounce you back(but illegal with wada) but I’d assume some of the top guys are using portable hyperbaric chambers, unless that’s illegal with WADa? A lot of top football and basketball players travel with them for recovery. I’ve used it a few times and it’s pretty cool.

probably allowed by WADA, they also don't ban altitude tents AFAIK, even though they're whole point is increasing red blood cells with a machine, but they generally seem fine with things as long as substances aren't being taken in.
6/3/2020 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2020 3:10pm
ACBraap wrote:
mid 4K is not really high enough to be an issue, IMO. It is high enough to feel the effect on the engine though. Even Denver...
mid 4K is not really high enough to be an issue, IMO. It is high enough to feel the effect on the engine though. Even Denver at a mile isn't terrible IMO, but going up to places like Breckenridge where mtb rides start in the mid 9ks and only go up is a shock to the system (I live at 900 ft).

Frankly, if a rider suffered in dry heat at 4500 of elevation, they are really going to suffer when the nationals start. The dryness of high desert combined with some heat and a little elevation does make staying hydrated difficult.

All that said, the mention of a lot of riders staying in Park City makes sense, and hopefully they are doing their training at lower elevations. The idea being to work out with as much oxygen as possible, and sleep with less, training the body to produce more red blood cells, as or as known in cycling 'train low sleep high'.
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong.

My personal experience is I don't really feel any different at 5,000 ft, but definitely do over 9,000 ft.
ACBraap
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6/3/2020 3:17pm
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong. My personal experience is I don't really feel...
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong.

My personal experience is I don't really feel any different at 5,000 ft, but definitely do over 9,000 ft.
I don't remember hearing about Armstrong doing much with altitude. Of course he had other ways to add oxygen carrying ability. With Michele Ferrari coaching him and the resources he had, if altitude would have been thought to be effective, or even sufficient cover for his increased hemotocrit, he'd have been there.

Some pro tour riders go to South America to spend time at altitude, mostly it's riders from the area though from what I remember.
6/3/2020 3:24pm
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong. My personal experience is I don't really feel...
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong.

My personal experience is I don't really feel any different at 5,000 ft, but definitely do over 9,000 ft.
ACBraap wrote:
I don't remember hearing about Armstrong doing much with altitude. Of course he had other ways to add oxygen carrying ability. With Michele Ferrari coaching him...
I don't remember hearing about Armstrong doing much with altitude. Of course he had other ways to add oxygen carrying ability. With Michele Ferrari coaching him and the resources he had, if altitude would have been thought to be effective, or even sufficient cover for his increased hemotocrit, he'd have been there.

Some pro tour riders go to South America to spend time at altitude, mostly it's riders from the area though from what I remember.
I thought Lance did the altitude training when he tried to make a come back and race clean. He didn't need to do anything special with altitude when he had EPO on tap.
ACBraap
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6/3/2020 3:32pm
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong. My personal experience is I don't really feel...
I thought Lance Armstrong and a lot of guys would train in high elevation? I could be wrong.

My personal experience is I don't really feel any different at 5,000 ft, but definitely do over 9,000 ft.
ACBraap wrote:
I don't remember hearing about Armstrong doing much with altitude. Of course he had other ways to add oxygen carrying ability. With Michele Ferrari coaching him...
I don't remember hearing about Armstrong doing much with altitude. Of course he had other ways to add oxygen carrying ability. With Michele Ferrari coaching him and the resources he had, if altitude would have been thought to be effective, or even sufficient cover for his increased hemotocrit, he'd have been there.

Some pro tour riders go to South America to spend time at altitude, mostly it's riders from the area though from what I remember.
I thought Lance did the altitude training when he tried to make a come back and race clean. He didn't need to do anything special with...
I thought Lance did the altitude training when he tried to make a come back and race clean. He didn't need to do anything special with altitude when he had EPO on tap.
You're right. http://recovoxnews.blogspot.com/2009/07/lance-armstrongs-altitude-train…

A variation on train low, sleep high.

Speaking of doping, it was interesting that Tom Danielson was mentioned as coaching Barcia, but his two doping suspensions weren't.
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PRM31
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6/3/2020 5:14pm
4K just isn’t that high. No reason it should be a major issue. Within 3-4 days they should all be feeling fine IMO. I go from 1k to 10.5k for some backcountry hiking each year. I always feel good again on day 3. A bigger issue may be how dry the air is and how dehydrated you can get.
TeamGreen
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6/3/2020 5:31pm
Tuna wrote:
I’m no expert but years ago I went from living at sea level to working in a town at 4000 ft. The highest we skied was...
I’m no expert but years ago I went from living at sea level to working in a town at 4000 ft. The highest we skied was 8000 feet. The first time I hiked to the peak I thought I was gonna die! Took me a couple weeks to acclimate and then I started training at 4000 feet. Definitely felt like a stud when I went back to sea level after 6 months.
There it is: a regular Joe's explanation of acclimating.

Nice!
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captmoto
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6/3/2020 6:15pm
I went from 1500 to 7000 for a deer hunt in one day. Hunted the next day and had a headache from hell that afternoon. I laid way off the hard hiking until the last of the week of hunting.

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