Another rider with EBV. What's the solution? Less races?

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8/19/2019 2:15 PM

We've seen many riders throughout the years with this issue but it does seem to be getting worse in a time when you think the riders have more info, better training, better resources to avoid it... but have we got to a level in the sport where the riders bodies just can't take it anymore? Is there a limit to the human body? Covington this year, Roczen's post about fatigue (may not be EBV but still a symptom of the demand of the series) and now Bogle are just some of the ones we know about. As a fan we want to see all the riders compete to make the racing and the championship better but have we got to a point where 30+ races for the 450 guys (20 for the 250s but they are younger and have lots to deal with adjusting to the sport as it is) is just too much? Factor in the travel and the practice days this sport is like no other.... especially with the level of intensity they have to compete at... what can help fix this burnout and sickness issue? I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts.... do we limit the number of races for each series? Make a rule like nascar and moto gp where you aren't aloud to ride during certain times of the year to force a break in what's become a year round season? Change the format of the MX series so there is less on the bike time? Change the calendar to give them breaks in the season to allow for recovery (17 out of 18 weekends is crazy when you think about it)?

Let's compare it to other sports:

NFL 16 games and a short pre season (and the athletes don't do full contact during the week to limit the hits/impact etc)
MLS 34 games over 7 months roughly
MLB 160 games over 6 months (plus a spring season) but the players get rest days and the hardly compete at the intensity of a MX or Soccer athlete
NBA 82 games over 6 months. Probably the next toughest but again I don't think their practice days are like MX athletes during the week
NASCAR is long, 38 races over 10 months but they aren't allowed to test during the week or off season and they do nothing during the week. And they all travel on private planes to ease the travel burden like the other professional sports.

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8/19/2019 2:19 PM

its the training not the races. the line between over training and the perfect amount can be razor thin.

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8/19/2019 2:20 PM

Less training, better diet, more recovery

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8/19/2019 2:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 2:23 PM

Asking this is like asking why there are more deaths in skydiving than pool diving... Moto is just very physically demanding. It's inherent to the sport.

Having said that, our sport is one of the toughest on earth and for the most part, the athletes and trainers do not have the knowledge and experience they should about training. MX is a young, niche sport and it shows. In all aspects of the sport.

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8/19/2019 2:31 PM

HRV devices...

This will help keep recovery at an optimal level...

i think most guys do more than what they do at Baker's factory.. Aldon keeps his guys on a year round schedule, and only uses the off season to build their "base" they know they are not going to get fitter as the season progresses due to fatigue.. Aldon just keeps his guys grinding to maintain their base..

Also, i tend to notice that the people who get EBV, have recently come off injuries and are trying to speed up the process.

Of course this is just my opinion..

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8/19/2019 2:53 PM

I don’t believe it.
I listen to all the trainerroad podcasts and within that they talk a lot about training stress & fatigue and they’ve got it figured out. To me, I can glean tiny snippets of useful tips but most of it is way too advanced for what I know.
My point being is that our MX heroes are professionals and they hopefully hire professional trainers who wouldn’t let them bury themselves beyond no return because these guys do (or should) understand it just like the trainerroad guys. You can’t just keep on keeping on. Race, yes. Monday, rest up until you feel better.

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8/19/2019 4:06 PM

I can promise you guys one thing, I’ll never get EBV with my training routine. I might have a heart attack, but it won’t be EBV.

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8/19/2019 4:20 PM

NBA 2nd toughest? LOL ever hear of the NHL?

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8/19/2019 4:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 4:28 PM

I don’t know but David Bailey never got Epstein Barr and he trained harder than any of these guys and ask bob hannah what he thinks about this virus

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8/19/2019 4:32 PM

kimblejett wrote:

I don’t know but David Bailey never got Epstein Barr and he trained harder than any of these guys and ask bob hannah what he thinks about this virus

Wow bro hot take. I’m sure those guys ate steel for breakfast because they were so tough

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8/19/2019 4:33 PM

Whoop seems to be making head waves with high profile athletes of other sports. I wonder how long until we see these straps on MX stars because their system claims to solve the over training issue.
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8/19/2019 4:39 PM

Paging Doctor Vital, Doctor Vital

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8/19/2019 4:40 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

I don’t believe it.
I listen to all the trainerroad podcasts and within that they talk a lot about training stress & fatigue and they’ve got it figured out. To me, I can glean tiny snippets of useful tips but most of it is way too advanced for what I know.
My point being is that our MX heroes are professionals and they hopefully hire professional trainers who wouldn’t let them bury themselves beyond no return because these guys do (or should) understand it just like the trainerroad guys. You can’t just keep on keeping on. Race, yes. Monday, rest up until you feel better.

Yeah, they got something figured out all right.

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8/19/2019 4:43 PM

NV825 wrote: Whoop seems to be making head waves with high profile athletes of other sports. I wonder how long until we see these straps on MX stars because their system claims to solve the over training issue.

this is a great step, but they arent that accurate compared to alot of other products on the market...

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8/19/2019 4:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 4:45 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

NBA 2nd toughest? LOL ever hear of the NHL?

They have pretty much identical schedules, right down to event dates.

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8/19/2019 4:45 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

NBA 2nd toughest? LOL ever hear of the NHL?

Dirty Points wrote:

They have pretty much identical schedules, right down to event dates.

If schedules determined how tough a sport was, baseball would be on another planet from any other sport on earth

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8/19/2019 4:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 4:49 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

NBA 2nd toughest? LOL ever hear of the NHL?

Dirty Points wrote:

They have pretty much identical schedules, right down to event dates.

zehn wrote:

If schedules determined how tough a sport was, baseball would be on another planet from any other sport on earth

Nah. Series play means less travel time. And the format means athletes don't get as much wear: high fatigue positions like pitching are rotated. Overall athlete longevity in that sport is better than almost any of the ones named.

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8/19/2019 4:47 PM

Oh boy

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8/19/2019 4:52 PM


If one thinks it's too much hard work, for too long a stretch, the answer is easy.

Nobody rides both SX and the outdoors in the same year. It's one or the other.

The AMA could call it the ep-bar rule.
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8/19/2019 4:55 PM

I think in general comparing an individual sport to team sports just doesn't work. If a guy in a team sport is injured or ill, he generally has a replacement.

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8/19/2019 5:03 PM

NV825 wrote: Whoop seems to be making head waves with high profile athletes of other sports. I wonder how long until we see these straps on MX stars because their system claims to solve the over training issue.

TSCHAM101 wrote:

this is a great step, but they arent that accurate compared to alot of other products on the market...

Covington uses the Whoop or at least used to based off of a few photos on his instagram.

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8/19/2019 5:30 PM

The solution is for these riders to stop being sissies. Dont remember the greats from the 80s and 90s getting this.

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8/19/2019 5:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 5:50 PM

Freddie wrote:

We've seen many riders throughout the years with this issue but it does seem to be getting worse in a time when you think the riders have more info, better training, better resources to avoid it... but have we got to a level in the sport where the riders bodies just can't take it anymore? Is there a limit to the human body? Covington this year, Roczen's post about fatigue (may not be EBV but still a symptom of the demand of the series) and now Bogle are just some of the ones we know about. As a fan we want to see all the riders compete to make the racing and the championship better but have we got to a point where 30+ races for the 450 guys (20 for the 250s but they are younger and have lots to deal with adjusting to the sport as it is) is just too much? Factor in the travel and the practice days this sport is like no other.... especially with the level of intensity they have to compete at... what can help fix this burnout and sickness issue? I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts.... do we limit the number of races for each series? Make a rule like nascar and moto gp where you aren't aloud to ride during certain times of the year to force a break in what's become a year round season? Change the format of the MX series so there is less on the bike time? Change the calendar to give them breaks in the season to allow for recovery (17 out of 18 weekends is crazy when you think about it)?

Let's compare it to other sports:

NFL 16 games and a short pre season (and the athletes don't do full contact during the week to limit the hits/impact etc)
MLS 34 games over 7 months roughly
MLB 160 games over 6 months (plus a spring season) but the players get rest days and the hardly compete at the intensity of a MX or Soccer athlete
NBA 82 games over 6 months. Probably the next toughest but again I don't think their practice days are like MX athletes during the week
NASCAR is long, 38 races over 10 months but they aren't allowed to test during the week or off season and they do nothing during the week. And they all travel on private planes to ease the travel burden like the other professional sports.

Lots of people get it......they just don’t have to ride 75 minutes on an Outdoor Track on Saturday.

They usually stay home from their cashier jobs for 3 months.....and you don’t here about it because they have another cashier fill in for them!

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8/19/2019 5:49 PM

Rest, rest, rest. Your body only recovers/rebuilds when its resting. Nutrition is a factor too.

If you do 3 workouts a day (cycle, weights, moto). You need lots of rest to recover. These young pups have the energy and motivation to do the workouts but don't have the maturity to rest/eat properly.

Work out smarter, not harder. More is not always better when it comes to training.

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8/19/2019 6:28 PM

Freddie wrote:

We've seen many riders throughout the years with this issue but it does seem to be getting worse in a time when you think the riders have more info, better training, better resources to avoid it... but have we got to a level in the sport where the riders bodies just can't take it anymore? Is there a limit to the human body? Covington this year, Roczen's post about fatigue (may not be EBV but still a symptom of the demand of the series) and now Bogle are just some of the ones we know about. As a fan we want to see all the riders compete to make the racing and the championship better but have we got to a point where 30+ races for the 450 guys (20 for the 250s but they are younger and have lots to deal with adjusting to the sport as it is) is just too much? Factor in the travel and the practice days this sport is like no other.... especially with the level of intensity they have to compete at... what can help fix this burnout and sickness issue? I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts.... do we limit the number of races for each series? Make a rule like nascar and moto gp where you aren't aloud to ride during certain times of the year to force a break in what's become a year round season? Change the format of the MX series so there is less on the bike time? Change the calendar to give them breaks in the season to allow for recovery (17 out of 18 weekends is crazy when you think about it)?

Let's compare it to other sports:

NFL 16 games and a short pre season (and the athletes don't do full contact during the week to limit the hits/impact etc)
MLS 34 games over 7 months roughly
MLB 160 games over 6 months (plus a spring season) but the players get rest days and the hardly compete at the intensity of a MX or Soccer athlete
NBA 82 games over 6 months. Probably the next toughest but again I don't think their practice days are like MX athletes during the week
NASCAR is long, 38 races over 10 months but they aren't allowed to test during the week or off season and they do nothing during the week. And they all travel on private planes to ease the travel burden like the other professional sports.

No! These are professional athletes. I’m a normal athlete. When I was doing Ironman races I was doing strength training, running 50 miles a week, swimming 8-10 miles a week and biking 300-350 miles a week. They aren’t doing anywhere near that. I was 42 years old at the time.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

8/19/2019 6:44 PM

Racer111 wrote:

No! These are professional athletes. I’m a normal athlete. When I was doing Ironman races I was doing strength training, running 50 miles a week, swimming 8-10 miles a week and biking 300-350 miles a week. They aren’t doing anywhere near that. I was 42 years old at the time.

"I didn't get it, so there's no way these athletes can get it from overtraining."

You know that's not how viruses work, right?

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8/19/2019 7:01 PM

Dirty Points wrote:

They have pretty much identical schedules, right down to event dates.

zehn wrote:

If schedules determined how tough a sport was, baseball would be on another planet from any other sport on earth

Dirty Points wrote:

Nah. Series play means less travel time. And the format means athletes don't get as much wear: high fatigue positions like pitching are rotated. Overall athlete longevity in that sport is better than almost any of the ones named.

You missed the point. The grind of an NHL season plus playoffs is not remotely comparable to the NBA, even though they have the same schedules. Zehn was using baseball as an example to explain why the schedule alone is not the determining factor of how tough a sport is.

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8/19/2019 7:34 PM

Freddie wrote:

We've seen many riders throughout the years with this issue but it does seem to be getting worse in a time when you think the riders have more info, better training, better resources to avoid it... but have we got to a level in the sport where the riders bodies just can't take it anymore? Is there a limit to the human body? Covington this year, Roczen's post about fatigue (may not be EBV but still a symptom of the demand of the series) and now Bogle are just some of the ones we know about. As a fan we want to see all the riders compete to make the racing and the championship better but have we got to a point where 30+ races for the 450 guys (20 for the 250s but they are younger and have lots to deal with adjusting to the sport as it is) is just too much? Factor in the travel and the practice days this sport is like no other.... especially with the level of intensity they have to compete at... what can help fix this burnout and sickness issue? I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts.... do we limit the number of races for each series? Make a rule like nascar and moto gp where you aren't aloud to ride during certain times of the year to force a break in what's become a year round season? Change the format of the MX series so there is less on the bike time? Change the calendar to give them breaks in the season to allow for recovery (17 out of 18 weekends is crazy when you think about it)?

Let's compare it to other sports:

NFL 16 games and a short pre season (and the athletes don't do full contact during the week to limit the hits/impact etc)
MLS 34 games over 7 months roughly
MLB 160 games over 6 months (plus a spring season) but the players get rest days and the hardly compete at the intensity of a MX or Soccer athlete
NBA 82 games over 6 months. Probably the next toughest but again I don't think their practice days are like MX athletes during the week
NASCAR is long, 38 races over 10 months but they aren't allowed to test during the week or off season and they do nothing during the week. And they all travel on private planes to ease the travel burden like the other professional sports.

Racer111 wrote:

No! These are professional athletes. I’m a normal athlete. When I was doing Ironman races I was doing strength training, running 50 miles a week, swimming 8-10 miles a week and biking 300-350 miles a week. They aren’t doing anywhere near that. I was 42 years old at the time.

You were doing "endurance" zone training. These wipper snappers bounce their HR off the rev limiter 6 days a week and wonder why they are not improving. So they train harder....

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8/19/2019 7:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 7:44 PM

zehn wrote:

If schedules determined how tough a sport was, baseball would be on another planet from any other sport on earth

Dirty Points wrote:

Nah. Series play means less travel time. And the format means athletes don't get as much wear: high fatigue positions like pitching are rotated. Overall athlete longevity in that sport is better than almost any of the ones named.

tcallahan707 wrote:

You missed the point. The grind of an NHL season plus playoffs is not remotely comparable to the NBA, even though they have the same schedules. Zehn was using baseball as an example to explain why the schedule alone is not the determining factor of how tough a sport is.

NBA plus playoffs is a huge grind, comparable to NHL (which is also brutal). High injury sport, average career length shorter than NHL.

IMO, both those sports are right at the top of the pile for most over-extended professional schedule.

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8/19/2019 7:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/19/2019 7:41 PM

Racer111 wrote:

No! These are professional athletes. I’m a normal athlete. When I was doing Ironman races I was doing strength training, running 50 miles a week, swimming 8-10 miles a week and biking 300-350 miles a week. They aren’t doing anywhere near that. I was 42 years old at the time.

I know professional triathletes in their late 20s and early 30s that don't put in those kinds of numbers. Not even close

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