Lightest bikes in the class - KTM Frame snaps

Turbojez
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Turbojez
Edited Date/Time 6/5/2019 9:08am
Just a food for thought, I came across those pics on facebook. I do not know how is the rider doing and what exactly happened.
The second bike (linkage mount snapped) is a pic I got from my mate. 2019, pro ridden.
I could understand this happening on an old, neglected bike, that has hundreds/thousands of hours on it, but it's unacceptable in an almost new bike.

Guess "the lightest bike in the class" title is not that appealing anymore, at least from me. Not hating on KTM, I am aware they are pushing the development, but that shit is scary.






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kb228
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kb228 6/4/2019 6:38am
6/4/2019 6:38am
I looked into getting a 2016ish ktm450 as an upgrade over my 09kx450, mainly due to the electric start. Having that would be nice since im recovering from a shattered left knee.

Im a heavy mofo at almost 300lbs. I see this way too often for me to pull the trigger on one.
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Jeff_Crutcher 6/4/2019 6:41am
6/4/2019 6:41am
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 6/4/2019 6:52am
6/4/2019 6:52am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
There is enough evidence that this is more common than it should be. Not slamming KTM, but it certainly seems a lot more frequent than any other mfg.
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GoggleFiend904 6/4/2019 6:55am
6/4/2019 6:55am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2019 6:56am
kb228 wrote:
I looked into getting a 2016ish ktm450 as an upgrade over my 09kx450, mainly due to the electric start. Having that would be nice since im...
I looked into getting a 2016ish ktm450 as an upgrade over my 09kx450, mainly due to the electric start. Having that would be nice since im recovering from a shattered left knee.

Im a heavy mofo at almost 300lbs. I see this way too often for me to pull the trigger on one.
Shattered patella? I shattered mine and it healed like twice as wide as it's supposed to be. Feels solid though lol
mx_563
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mx_563 6/4/2019 6:57am
6/4/2019 6:57am
The linkage thing....I had a similar thing happen on a 1997 RM250.
kb228
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kb228 6/4/2019 6:57am
6/4/2019 6:57am
kb228 wrote:
I looked into getting a 2016ish ktm450 as an upgrade over my 09kx450, mainly due to the electric start. Having that would be nice since im...
I looked into getting a 2016ish ktm450 as an upgrade over my 09kx450, mainly due to the electric start. Having that would be nice since im recovering from a shattered left knee.

Im a heavy mofo at almost 300lbs. I see this way too often for me to pull the trigger on one.
GoggleFiend904 wrote:
Shattered patella? I shattered mine and it healed like twice as wide as it's supposed to be. Feels solid though lol
Shattered the top of my tibia
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Turbojez
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Turbojez 6/4/2019 7:01am
6/4/2019 7:01am
Moto Obsessed wrote:
Somewhere, David Pingree is shaking his fist at the sky...
It were the triple clamps that failed in Pingree's case if I remember correctly. Here it's obviously a frame/welding issue.
slipdog
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slipdog 6/4/2019 7:02am
6/4/2019 7:02am
mx_563 wrote:
The linkage thing....I had a similar thing happen on a 1997 RM250.
My first big bike, 1989 KX125 snapped like a twig at the final round of the Trans-Cal Series. I lost the title by 4 points that day...
dnf736
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dnf736 6/4/2019 7:04am
6/4/2019 7:04am
Judging by the discoloration of the metal in the first pic that frame has been cracked for a while. Hope everyone is ok.
TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 6/4/2019 7:35am
6/4/2019 7:35am
Moto Obsessed wrote:
Somewhere, David Pingree is shaking his fist at the sky...
Turbojez wrote:
It were the triple clamps that failed in Pingree's case if I remember correctly. Here it's obviously a frame/welding issue.
To be fair, it was the engine that failed first causing him to nosedive off of a 70ft triple and land fender-first into the back of the landing, which shattered the triple clamps.

Totally different scenario.
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Bramlett321
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Bramlett321 6/4/2019 7:59am
6/4/2019 7:59am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Thank you !!! Every damn one of these KTM frame failure threads need to hit the dumbgeon
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wideopen198 6/4/2019 8:21am
6/4/2019 8:21am
The ktm frame breaking is definitely more common then the jap frames breaking. That's the downside to shaving so much weight off. It makes the safety factor go down.
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agenticard
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agenticard 6/4/2019 8:26am
6/4/2019 8:26am
That bike sure looks neglected though. Doesn't matter how many hours are on it. The hour meter isnt ticking when the bike starts rust after being chewed up by the sand because you leave it outside and it never gets cleaned.
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Goon126
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Goon126 6/4/2019 8:37am
6/4/2019 8:37am
By the time this thread ends it will somehow turn into "the yz450 is not good for pros".
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Moto520
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Moto520 6/4/2019 8:44am
6/4/2019 8:44am
The bikes are good. All of the manufacturers have isolated issues. I have a KTM and have crashed the shit out of it a couple of times in the last 2 months. It survived with surprisingly little damage. The bikes are solid in that regard. They can take a pretty good hit without coming apart.
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Sir
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Sir 6/4/2019 8:49am
6/4/2019 8:49am
Yet Husqvarna whom share the same frame do not appear to suffer these failures. Regardless, this has been happening to modern KTM's too often now, especially when you consider that KTM are using what is meant to be a high quality steel.
duckdog77
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duckdog77 6/4/2019 8:56am
6/4/2019 8:56am
Welds looks rusty...my little brother used to crack his frame all the time on his kx65. He didn’t believe in landing ramps just sent it! Dad was always welding that thing!!!
stone881
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stone881 6/4/2019 8:56am
6/4/2019 8:56am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Bramlett321 wrote:
Thank you !!! Every damn one of these KTM frame failure threads need to hit the dumbgeon
Nothing dumb about broken frame posts. It brings attention to potential issues and hopefully in this case inspires KTM owners, of which I am one, to do proper bike inspection before riding.
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ga_pike
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ga_pike 6/4/2019 9:35am
6/4/2019 9:35am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2019 9:36am
Aren't Redbull KTM and RMATV running extra frame gussets/bracing?
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byke
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byke 6/4/2019 9:53am
6/4/2019 9:53am
Maybe, but at least the filters have oil and the muffler packing doesn't come out.
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Question
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Question 6/4/2019 10:02am
6/4/2019 10:02am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
There is enough evidence that this is more common than it should be. Not slamming KTM, but it certainly seems a lot more frequent than any...
There is enough evidence that this is more common than it should be. Not slamming KTM, but it certainly seems a lot more frequent than any other mfg.
Not really here to defend that, but they also have 50% of the paddock on their bike.

We don't see that as often from some other manufacturers because they have much less bikes on track.

But that is true that it is an issue to be solved asap before someone get really hurt.
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VRR7
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VRR7 6/4/2019 10:54am
6/4/2019 10:54am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Bramlett321 wrote:
Thank you !!! Every damn one of these KTM frame failure threads need to hit the dumbgeon
It is a smart and valid technological discussion ongoing on Earth with well experienced and educated personal. hardly dumb.

Some points to consider:

I read an article in MXA once about the all the AMA SX factory race bike ( Good couple of years back). The KTM's would have to swop their frame out about 3 times more often than the other works bike due to fatigue. Which implies they fatigue faster.

I watched the Moto3 racing this weekend at Mugello they had some slow mo shots of the bikes braking hard into a corner. What I found interesting was how the KTM wheels would not stay in line the whole bike would twist and the front and rear wheels angle would not be in alignment and it so pronounced one could see it.

I know the chrome-moly frame is part of the KTM's business model. Fast frame design changes and it is working for them what I find interesting is Ducati motogp bike the originators and die hard trellis frame manufacturers run Aluminum / Carbon Fibre frames.

One big problem with steel is it rusts - I have seen many a steel frame project after sand blasting and the lower rails have to be cut out. You cannot see inside the tubing and that is exactly where they rust from the inside out because they are not coated and you can only guess by how much - Ali will not rust and it is easier to see the crack or wear spots.

The whole vehicle industry trend is towards ali and carbon including bicycles. How long can KTM market and milk Ye Olde Steel frame concept? The weight strength ratio favors aluminum so how much strength is being forfeited in favor of weight ?

https://www.clintonaluminum.com/aluminum-used-in-performance-racing-ind…
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seth505
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seth505 6/4/2019 11:14am
6/4/2019 11:14am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
With 15 minutes of google time I could find catastrophic failure photos of every manufacturer.

When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Bramlett321 wrote:
Thank you !!! Every damn one of these KTM frame failure threads need to hit the dumbgeon
VRR7 wrote:
It is a smart and valid technological discussion ongoing on Earth with well experienced and educated personal. hardly dumb. Some points to consider: I read an...
It is a smart and valid technological discussion ongoing on Earth with well experienced and educated personal. hardly dumb.

Some points to consider:

I read an article in MXA once about the all the AMA SX factory race bike ( Good couple of years back). The KTM's would have to swop their frame out about 3 times more often than the other works bike due to fatigue. Which implies they fatigue faster.

I watched the Moto3 racing this weekend at Mugello they had some slow mo shots of the bikes braking hard into a corner. What I found interesting was how the KTM wheels would not stay in line the whole bike would twist and the front and rear wheels angle would not be in alignment and it so pronounced one could see it.

I know the chrome-moly frame is part of the KTM's business model. Fast frame design changes and it is working for them what I find interesting is Ducati motogp bike the originators and die hard trellis frame manufacturers run Aluminum / Carbon Fibre frames.

One big problem with steel is it rusts - I have seen many a steel frame project after sand blasting and the lower rails have to be cut out. You cannot see inside the tubing and that is exactly where they rust from the inside out because they are not coated and you can only guess by how much - Ali will not rust and it is easier to see the crack or wear spots.

The whole vehicle industry trend is towards ali and carbon including bicycles. How long can KTM market and milk Ye Olde Steel frame concept? The weight strength ratio favors aluminum so how much strength is being forfeited in favor of weight ?

https://www.clintonaluminum.com/aluminum-used-in-performance-racing-ind…
You linked to an article from an aluminum company talking up aluminum in certain applications, not too surprising. Both definitely have advantages and disadvantages.

This is a good general depiction.

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fourfourone
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fourfourone 6/4/2019 11:48am
6/4/2019 11:48am
observeroffacts wrote:
This just popped up on my Instagram right now. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/06/04/352310/s1200_AACB11F9_0076_43F5_8383_2DE50EA650F5.jpg[/img]
This just popped up on my Instagram right now.
that picture is old as hell and clearly that was from a crash
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Yeti365
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Yeti365 6/4/2019 4:14pm
6/4/2019 4:14pm
Sir wrote:
Yet Husqvarna whom share the same frame do not appear to suffer these failures. Regardless, this has been happening to modern KTM's too often now, especially...
Yet Husqvarna whom share the same frame do not appear to suffer these failures. Regardless, this has been happening to modern KTM's too often now, especially when you consider that KTM are using what is meant to be a high quality steel.
That's what blows me away with these threads on KTM frames.

It seems to be common with them more so than anyone else... but I have only seen one failure on the Husky frames.

Is there a manufacturer difference in these? I was under the impression the frames were exactly the same. Sans color of paint.

Anyone know more about this?

Just super weird to me.
Jrewing
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Jrewing 6/4/2019 4:27pm
6/4/2019 4:27pm
Sir wrote:
Yet Husqvarna whom share the same frame do not appear to suffer these failures. Regardless, this has been happening to modern KTM's too often now, especially...
Yet Husqvarna whom share the same frame do not appear to suffer these failures. Regardless, this has been happening to modern KTM's too often now, especially when you consider that KTM are using what is meant to be a high quality steel.
Simple. Only vets rode husqvarnas
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