Anderson mid air brake tap to save Sexton

gti
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gti 2/23/2022 10:01am
2/23/2022 10:01am
The rear wheel would stay in( or also become) the Axis position and the front will drop when the rear brake is applied.
OrangeJuice158 2/23/2022 10:59am
2/23/2022 10:59am
gti wrote:
The rear wheel would stay in( or also become) the Axis position and the front will drop when the rear brake is applied.
Torque is applied at the CG. Superposition of torque is early statics
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Moto520
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Moto520 2/23/2022 11:46am
2/23/2022 11:46am
Go ride....hit a jump....tap the brake....what happens? how did this even become a discussion? The back end doesn't rise by tapping the brake. we all know that right?
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Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 2/23/2022 11:46am
2/23/2022 11:46am Edited Date/Time 2/23/2022 11:59am
PFitzG38 wrote:
I don’t get it. brake tapping lowers the bike not raise it, also when you brake tap it’s stops your rear wheel I didn’t even see...
I don’t get it.
brake tapping lowers the bike not raise it, also when you brake tap it’s stops your rear wheel I didn’t even see a brake tap. He just jumped over chase. No big deal EDIT: if he changed up his rhythm to jump chase instead of land on him that would be impressive
^^this^^ I was thinking the same thing. A brake tap lessens your trajectory and brings your bike to the ground quicker. Who here thinks a brake tap lifts your bike up?
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Moto520
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Moto520 2/23/2022 11:48am
2/23/2022 11:48am
i think we are arguing with ourselves....haha
colintrax
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colintrax 2/23/2022 11:48am
2/23/2022 11:48am
If hitting the rear brake only drops the front and doesn't lift the rear that means hitting the rear brake will cause all 300+lbs of rider and bike to change direction while 30lbs of wheel continues on in its direction without change.

Somebody tell Barcia to quit revving it in the air. Its making him jump further.
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Moto520
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Moto520 2/23/2022 11:50am
2/23/2022 11:50am
I feel like some of you don't ride. However, no disrespect to those that don't ride.
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Gworm
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Gworm 2/23/2022 1:17pm
2/23/2022 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2022 1:45pm
So when you panic rev, it raises the front wheel to where the rear wheel is?

Panic rev or brake tap, the bike rotates around its CG, which should be close to where your knees are when standing.

But… keep in mind the CG will be climbing or descending, depending on where you are on the arc of you flight. So if you are past the apex and are descending, even though the rear wheel is rising in relation to the CG, and the front wheel lowering, it would still be descending in relation to the ground. It just won’t be as low as it would have been.
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Thisusernameisavailable 2/23/2022 1:47pm
2/23/2022 1:47pm
Gworm wrote:
So when you panic rev, it raises the front wheel to where the rear wheel is? Panic rev or brake tap, the bike rotates around its...
So when you panic rev, it raises the front wheel to where the rear wheel is?

Panic rev or brake tap, the bike rotates around its CG, which should be close to where your knees are when standing.

But… keep in mind the CG will be climbing or descending, depending on where you are on the arc of you flight. So if you are past the apex and are descending, even though the rear wheel is rising in relation to the CG, and the front wheel lowering, it would still be descending in relation to the ground. It just won’t be as low as it would have been.
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground.

Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates around the axis of the rear wheel.

Exactly the same happens in the air.
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colintrax
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colintrax 2/23/2022 2:00pm
2/23/2022 2:00pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground. Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates...
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground.

Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates around the axis of the rear wheel.

Exactly the same happens in the air.
No.

The tires pushes into the ground. The ground pushes on the tire.
Isn't this like high school level physics?
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Tank_Slapper
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Tank_Slapper 2/23/2022 2:08pm
2/23/2022 2:08pm
Yeah, seems like some here haven't done big jumps, let off the gas on a 500cc 2stk on a long jump in the air for a big surprise.
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Thisusernameisavailable 2/23/2022 2:19pm
2/23/2022 2:19pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground. Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates...
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground.

Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates around the axis of the rear wheel.

Exactly the same happens in the air.
colintrax wrote:
No.

The tires pushes into the ground. The ground pushes on the tire.
Isn't this like high school level physics?
If what you say is correct, we can perform an experiment-

Let’s put a set of bathroom scales under the rear wheel and apply some power- you’re saying the scales show more weight?

Once the front wheel is off of the ground, sure the rear wheel holds more weight.

But where is the point of axis?
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OrangeJuice158 2/23/2022 2:28pm
2/23/2022 2:28pm
colintrax wrote:
No.

The tires pushes into the ground. The ground pushes on the tire.
Isn't this like high school level physics?
Maybe try drawing the free body diagram? It’s pretty basic physics, you don’t even have to take a dynamics class to get this
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SEE ARE125
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SEE ARE125 2/23/2022 2:29pm
2/23/2022 2:29pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground. Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates...
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground.

Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates around the axis of the rear wheel.

Exactly the same happens in the air.
colintrax wrote:
No.

The tires pushes into the ground. The ground pushes on the tire.
Isn't this like high school level physics?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
If what you say is correct, we can perform an experiment- Let’s put a set of bathroom scales under the rear wheel and apply some power-...
If what you say is correct, we can perform an experiment-

Let’s put a set of bathroom scales under the rear wheel and apply some power- you’re saying the scales show more weight?

Once the front wheel is off of the ground, sure the rear wheel holds more weight.

But where is the point of axis?
That experiment involves traction which will skew the results. There is no traction in the air. What happens before the wheelie when you gas it? The rear shock compresses, because the rear of the bike is trying to go down. Once it hits a point where the shock’s upward force is too strong, THEN it wheelies. I forget the race, but Stew was fixing to clip a quad with his rear tire. He waited until the last second and tapped the brake and was able to downside it cleanly. It raised the rear just enough to avoid clipping his tire and him wadding up. The next lap he still hit it, but a little faster so it wasn’t necessary.
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OrangeJuice158 2/23/2022 2:30pm
2/23/2022 2:30pm
It’s conservation of momentum. The rear wheel speeds up. The momentum comes out of the motorcycle and you in the equal and opposite direction. About the center of gravity.
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PFitzG38
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PFitzG38 2/23/2022 2:50pm
2/23/2022 2:50pm
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
I model spacecraft dynamics to pay for racing, this is actually really similar because spacecraft actually spin wheels up and down to control their attitude.
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin large bags of biomass and fractionally distill it so people can control their attitude up or down.

Anybody that has raced and actually done it will tell you brake tapping will LOWER your FRONT wheel - panic revving will LOWER your REAR wheel. Once you are in the air and past the apex, no matter what you do NOTHING will raise your bike. It's simple science. Can't cheat gravity. Now let's talk about how effective a seat bounce is and how to do them properly.
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OrangeJuice158 2/23/2022 2:55pm
2/23/2022 2:55pm
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
I model spacecraft dynamics to pay for racing, this is actually really similar because spacecraft actually spin wheels up and down to control their attitude.
PFitzG38 wrote:
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin...
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin large bags of biomass and fractionally distill it so people can control their attitude up or down.

Anybody that has raced and actually done it will tell you brake tapping will LOWER your FRONT wheel - panic revving will LOWER your REAR wheel. Once you are in the air and past the apex, no matter what you do NOTHING will raise your bike. It's simple science. Can't cheat gravity. Now let's talk about how effective a seat bounce is and how to do them properly.
That’s awesome. I like that kind of attitude adjustment Smile
The CG of the bike is definitely moving in a parabolic arc so your definitely right that everything is pretty much going up till it’s pretty much going down.
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PFitzG38
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PFitzG38 2/23/2022 3:08pm
2/23/2022 3:08pm
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
I model spacecraft dynamics to pay for racing, this is actually really similar because spacecraft actually spin wheels up and down to control their attitude.
PFitzG38 wrote:
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin...
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin large bags of biomass and fractionally distill it so people can control their attitude up or down.

Anybody that has raced and actually done it will tell you brake tapping will LOWER your FRONT wheel - panic revving will LOWER your REAR wheel. Once you are in the air and past the apex, no matter what you do NOTHING will raise your bike. It's simple science. Can't cheat gravity. Now let's talk about how effective a seat bounce is and how to do them properly.
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
That’s awesome. I like that kind of attitude adjustment :) The CG of the bike is definitely moving in a parabolic arc so your definitely right...
That’s awesome. I like that kind of attitude adjustment Smile
The CG of the bike is definitely moving in a parabolic arc so your definitely right that everything is pretty much going up till it’s pretty much going down.
What goes up must come down, Spinning Wheel got to go 'round Talkin' 'bout your troubles clearn' Sextons head........
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Gworm
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Gworm 2/23/2022 3:23pm
2/23/2022 3:23pm
Gworm wrote:
So when you panic rev, it raises the front wheel to where the rear wheel is? Panic rev or brake tap, the bike rotates around its...
So when you panic rev, it raises the front wheel to where the rear wheel is?

Panic rev or brake tap, the bike rotates around its CG, which should be close to where your knees are when standing.

But… keep in mind the CG will be climbing or descending, depending on where you are on the arc of you flight. So if you are past the apex and are descending, even though the rear wheel is rising in relation to the CG, and the front wheel lowering, it would still be descending in relation to the ground. It just won’t be as low as it would have been.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground. Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates...
Take the bike out of the air & place it on the ground.

Now apply the power (lots of it) the bike wheelies. The bike rotates around the axis of the rear wheel.

Exactly the same happens in the air.
So you think it would have to rotate with enough force to move the earth for it to rotate its own mass around its CG with nothing impeding it ( in the air) ?
colintrax
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colintrax 2/23/2022 3:49pm
2/23/2022 3:49pm
PFitzG38 wrote:
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin...
Cool story Bro. I extract hemp/cannabis and turn it into CBD/THC to pay for racing, this is actually really similar except it's not because I spin large bags of biomass and fractionally distill it so people can control their attitude up or down.

Anybody that has raced and actually done it will tell you brake tapping will LOWER your FRONT wheel - panic revving will LOWER your REAR wheel. Once you are in the air and past the apex, no matter what you do NOTHING will raise your bike. It's simple science. Can't cheat gravity. Now let's talk about how effective a seat bounce is and how to do them properly.
Brake lowers the front and lifts the rear.
Throttle lifts the front and lowers the rear.

This is changing the angle of the bike. It's not lifting or lowering the bike as a whole. Your mass is continuing on its trajectory, something like momentum or whatever.

Just the same as you can just magically gain altitude, you can't magically lose altitude. Since you ride you know seat bouncing and scrubbing is done on the ground, the effect is seen in the air. Or lack of air.
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Broseph
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Broseph 2/23/2022 4:07pm
2/23/2022 4:07pm
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
Torque is applied at the CG. Superposition of torque is early statics
^ this guy gets it
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Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 2/23/2022 4:50pm
2/23/2022 4:50pm
I don’t know what you’re all looking at, I didn’t see either wheel stop. Are some of you saying Jason Anderson brake tapped in the whoops as if he were in mid air? Ask any SX racer what happens if you brake tap the front OR the rear while blitzing the whoops. He brake tapped himself over Chase WhistlingLaughing That certainly sounds heroic, i’ll give you all that.
Jason is a bad ass because he won the race not because he brake tapped over Chase.
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Kawboy14!
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Kawboy14! 2/23/2022 4:58pm
2/23/2022 4:58pm
JA to himself:

“……don’t stand up….please don’t stand up!”
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B Gotti
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B Gotti 2/23/2022 5:22pm
2/23/2022 5:22pm
Damn & here I thought I was smart when I entered the spelling bee in 2nd grade.
Tdc_worm
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Tdc_worm 2/23/2022 5:57pm
2/23/2022 5:57pm
The notion that Jason brake tapped to clear Chase's head is preposterous. Jason jumped with a technique/trajectory to miss Chase's head. His bike and trajectory are about 45* to gain the amplitude to miss Chase. That resulted in the bike having an attitude that needed to be corrected before landing. He corrected it with the brake tap.
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davis224
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davis224 2/23/2022 5:59pm
2/23/2022 5:59pm
If an airplane is on a treadmill, will it... wait. Wrong physics question.
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stangkag
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stangkag 2/23/2022 6:26pm
2/23/2022 6:26pm
Moto520 wrote:
I don’t think it was as close as it looked…..we will hear about it as the week goes on. I don’t think the brake tap raises...
I don’t think it was as close as it looked…..we will hear about it as the week goes on. I don’t think the brake tap raises the rear end…..it drops the front. I’m glad he didn’t get hit
Hold a pencil in the middle by grasping it with your index and thumb. Push down on one end, what happens to the opposite end? Same should apply here!
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Ozy
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Ozy 2/23/2022 7:27pm
2/23/2022 7:27pm
Mavetism wrote:
I thought this deserved it's own thread. Split second decision, could have been really ugly, Anderson is unreal. [embed] Sieh dir diesen Beitrag auf Instagram an ...
I thought this deserved it's own thread. Split second decision, could have been really ugly, Anderson is unreal.


have you ever done a brake tap? The rear end of the bike does not elevate when you brake tap, the front end drops
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Ozy
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Ozy 2/23/2022 7:29pm
2/23/2022 7:29pm
Moto520 wrote:
I don’t think it was as close as it looked…..we will hear about it as the week goes on. I don’t think the brake tap raises...
I don’t think it was as close as it looked…..we will hear about it as the week goes on. I don’t think the brake tap raises the rear end…..it drops the front. I’m glad he didn’t get hit
stangkag wrote:
Hold a pencil in the middle by grasping it with your index and thumb. Push down on one end, what happens to the opposite end? Same...
Hold a pencil in the middle by grasping it with your index and thumb. Push down on one end, what happens to the opposite end? Same should apply here!
No, the front end drops based on slowing the rear wheel. there is no invisible fulcrum in the middle of the bike that magically appears when you tap the rear brake
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