Amateur racing - more classes or less?

Moto810
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Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 9:37pm
So what do you all think about the state of the amateur racing today? It has evolved into 30 to 40 classes or more sometimes. Mostly because of money but I would guess partly because people want to say they won a race.

What do you all think is best? More race classes or less classes per race day?


My opinion is less is better, much more fun, and provides for a shorter race day.
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huck
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3/3/2016 12:11pm
When I would race, i would sign up for 2 classes. It would make the day go quicker. Plus, you're already there, what's another $30? I could care less about saying I won the race.
Moto810
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3/3/2016 12:13pm
Running two classes is enough I feel also. However I have seen tracks trying to work it out so that rider can ride 3 or 4 classes.
Skerby
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3/3/2016 12:14pm
Fewer classes.

Fast and slow big bikes for small turnout. Long motos, or a lot of motos. Would seperate the men from the boys.
moto455va
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Smithfield, VA US
3/3/2016 12:21pm
Id rather there be less classes so more people in each class. I see race results sometimes and theres literally 3 people in a class.

Id rather get 5th out of 30 than 2nd out of 4.

I guess everyone wants their trophy though so there has to be 60 classes per race day.

The Shop

BobPA
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3/3/2016 12:21pm
I would like to see a few less classes, I feel like the number of kids classes has gone through the roof since I started. Also having +25ABC, +30ABC, +35ABC, +40ABC, +45ABC, and +50ABC is just ridiculous.

I mostly ran two classes, which really makes the day go by faster. Occasionally I ran 3, which was ok....but I could end up with back to back motos.
mxrose3
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3/3/2016 12:23pm
LESS
Expert and Am classes only..... The C class was invented only because Joe Beginner wanted a trophy.
Now you have lifetime C riders because the AMA is afraid to move anybody up. All because Joe Beginner's Mom spent their life savings on bikes, homeschooling and sending them to Mudflaps training facility, just to get them a LL's title.
Moto810
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3/3/2016 12:28pm
I think having a fuller gate is always better for racing!

Uncle Tony
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3/3/2016 12:48pm
When I started it was 4 classes 100/125/250/and 500 A,B,C, of course no mini cycles or vets we didn't have minis or vets yet, ok im old,but clearly that's changed, I think it should be 50cc with an age limit, again 65cc then 85 A/B/C combined but scored separate 125cc two stroke class combined but scored separate, then of course 250f and 450f A/B/C in their own classes,and then vets no 25 plus just 30/40/50 no A/B/C that's 13 races for one moto instead of 24 or more classes, in classes like the 85 or the 125 I think it would make riders faster combining A/B/C together and I would let the 125's eligible to race the 250f class

Most of the superstar kids have two bikes so they can run the 250 and 450, 30 plus guys are still young enough now to race with the A/B/C guys, I'm 58 and every now and then race in the younger vet classes, I still race two classes I think someone should try this, we can get more track time this way


I think C riders should get 10 plus 2, B riders 15 plus 2, A riders 20 plus 2, vets 15 plus 2 as should the 125 and 85 classes 50cc and 65cc 4 laps it would be worth it to race

goinrcn44h
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3/3/2016 12:59pm
This is a good topic. And, you will see two vastly different types of mindsets. We will call it now and then for sake of clarity.
Then:
3 classes max per bike size 125/250/500 beginner/intermediate/pro then you had vet amateur and vet pro. You win a couple races in beginner, and boom, just like that you are an intermediate, win a couple those and boom, you're a pro now.
*When I was below the pro class my entire existence was to get to the pro class as fast as humanly possible, it was a goal shared by the majority of the area at that time, some made it but many didn't, that's life for ya. However, and this was in the 80's mind you, things were simpler. We even had an initiation for the guys that turned pro got thrown in the pond by the track, it was your right of passage that you earned being a pro.

Now:
everyone needs their own class so that they can "win" and feel good about themselves. every peewee, 60, and 80 rider got a trophy(wtf?) I still don't understand the thinking behind doing this and I am still to this day not entirely certain what we are trying to instill in kids that get something for doing nothing more than sucking oxygen..
I even seen just this week where my old track actually had the class "vet expert B" when someone figures out what the F*** that is then you are smarter than me.
I am cynical, I am old, I am ornery, and I resist change on this subject terribly. The beginning of the end is when it became lucrative to be an amateur and get factory rides. And I do understand that to a certain extent that you wouldn't want to jeopardize that by turning pro at a local level.
I don't claim to have answers, I just bitch I guess. I do know shit was simpler, and more fun back then. I did my part , I had a successful local pro stretch and then I ran races for the club for quite a few years, It got to where it wasn't fun anymore and was all about winning without effort because of a lack of competition due to watered down class structure. It drove me away and I haven't been back in 15 years, literally.
My first and deepest love is motocross, have the medical history to prove it. You can never go back they say, but I can tell you it was way easier then.
3/3/2016 2:00pm
Less classes or combined gates/double gate drops.

I just can't justify paying an entry fee and $40-50 per class for 4 practice laps and two 5 lap motos. I can spend $25 and go to the same track on practice days and get 20-30 laps in and the lines are not all blown to shit. If it was more like 7-8 laps or 15min+1 or something I could justify it more.
Racer142
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Byhalia, MS US
3/3/2016 2:00pm
Less classes 50/65/85 beginner intermediate 125 school boy 250 450 beginner intermediate expert then 25 plus 35 plus and 45 plus. I don't agree with getting rid of 25 plus. I'm 26 myself and decent b class speed but I have no interest in racing a bunch of 15 and 16 year old kids and can't imagine many 25-29 year old's that work on Monday do.
moore433
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Denton, TX US
3/3/2016 2:30pm
There are too many classes now...
Fun is racing your dad in the over 40 class.. plus having my kids racing too.
ACBraap
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3/3/2016 2:37pm
Less classes, longer motos. Spending all day at the track for two 10 minutes mots is why people practice instead of race. Needs to be more like offroad, where classes have their start times posted, so I can show up for my start, ride, and leave.
Dtat720
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Flowood, MS US
3/3/2016 2:54pm
Less is more they say. And i am a firm believer in it. Way too many classes.
731chopper
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3/3/2016 3:02pm
Less classes. I'm too out of shape to race multiple classes anyways. For big races I think mini bikes on Saturday and big bikes on Sunday is a good fit.
Trav138
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3/3/2016 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 3:25pm
Uncle Tony wrote:
When I started it was 4 classes 100/125/250/and 500 A,B,C, of course no mini cycles or vets we didn't have minis or vets yet, ok im...
When I started it was 4 classes 100/125/250/and 500 A,B,C, of course no mini cycles or vets we didn't have minis or vets yet, ok im old,but clearly that's changed, I think it should be 50cc with an age limit, again 65cc then 85 A/B/C combined but scored separate 125cc two stroke class combined but scored separate, then of course 250f and 450f A/B/C in their own classes,and then vets no 25 plus just 30/40/50 no A/B/C that's 13 races for one moto instead of 24 or more classes, in classes like the 85 or the 125 I think it would make riders faster combining A/B/C together and I would let the 125's eligible to race the 250f class

Most of the superstar kids have two bikes so they can run the 250 and 450, 30 plus guys are still young enough now to race with the A/B/C guys, I'm 58 and every now and then race in the younger vet classes, I still race two classes I think someone should try this, we can get more track time this way


I think C riders should get 10 plus 2, B riders 15 plus 2, A riders 20 plus 2, vets 15 plus 2 as should the 125 and 85 classes 50cc and 65cc 4 laps it would be worth it to race

Ya lets cut the classes down to like it was in "75" for uncle Tony, so the promoters maybe make ten bucks.
Cool, in 75 did you even need insurence? Gas 40 cent, bikes 500, rubber band for starting gate free Smile

edit what im saying is combine to many and you hurt attendence. I.E vet c is one of the popular classes but if you combine it with vet A it doesn't work. A lot of guys don't start til late 20s and early 30s And shouldnt be on track with experts or pros so they stay home or go somewhere else
3/3/2016 3:45pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 3:47pm
I don't care how many classes you want to run. i wish they would fill the gate up. And just have less gate drops. Staggers for 3 riders. That's retarded. Plus, I don't want to race 3-8 people. So that's why I find myself picking bigger events like Ohio's battle series, or well attended qualifiers. Joe Schmoe local race day sucks. It's not racing, it's just parading around for a few laps and then you're stuck and can't do anything the rest of the day till the next moto pops up.

And then you get people complaining about people in other classes messing up their race. In my opinion everyone is dealing with the same scenario of racing with other classes. Kids need more experience going off the line in full gates except for a handful of amatuer races a year during qualifying, regional, and loretta season.
Trav138
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3/3/2016 3:45pm
Most classes around here are so small you can put a few classes on the gate and then stager start a few more.
Its a real shame and a lot of tracks are gone and some just do a limited practice schedule. Imo more could be done to bring new riders in but thats another topic
Moto810
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3/3/2016 4:17pm
It sure seems pretty clear that riders would like less classes! I hope some tracks and promoters are looking at this! Maybe a few of them will learn what their customers want.
Uncle Tony
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3/3/2016 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 4:44pm
Trav138 wrote:
Ya lets cut the classes down to like it was in "75" for uncle Tony, so the promoters maybe make ten bucks. Cool, in 75 did...
Ya lets cut the classes down to like it was in "75" for uncle Tony, so the promoters maybe make ten bucks.
Cool, in 75 did you even need insurence? Gas 40 cent, bikes 500, rubber band for starting gate free Smile

edit what im saying is combine to many and you hurt attendence. I.E vet c is one of the popular classes but if you combine it with vet A it doesn't work. A lot of guys don't start til late 20s and early 30s And shouldnt be on track with experts or pros so they stay home or go somewhere else
Trav138 where does that leave me? I'm 58 that means I have to race the 40 plus and the 50 plus, fast guys for sure, so I have to step up to the plate, but isn't that what moto is about?75 prices are no different then 16 prices minimum wage was a $1.85 in 1975, rubber band starts? That didn't come until later we did hand on helmet in neutral, I understand what you are saying but the amount of classes is just getting out of control

Plus to sit there and watch 4 50cc kids take 20 minutes to do 3 laps on an abbreviated track borders on ridiculous
And I agree with you maybe the vets should be divided into A/B/C but what I was trying to say was let them all start together all the 30 plus together then 40 together, scoring shouldn't be to much of a problem most tracks are using (at least around here) transponders
Moto810
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3/3/2016 5:13pm
Tracks can improve their bank accounts if they learn to change with the times! The riders are the customers and the customers have not been showing up! As an average racing attendance is down around 50% the tracks claim over the past 10 years.

1) less classes and shorter race weekends

2) allow all local motorcycle shops to setup for FREE and sell parts or make repairs

3) run a $20 two stroke class (split it up by novice or intermediate if you have enough riders)

4) offer bike washing for a fee

5) sell better food

6) advertise your races on all available free sites and shops

7) communicate better with your customers by internet and on race day by having a schedule posted early


All of these things are basic in nature. Nothing difficult to do. The riders would thank you by paying you to race!
mx510
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3/3/2016 5:17pm
Moto810 wrote:
It sure seems pretty clear that riders would like less classes! I hope some tracks and promoters are looking at this! Maybe a few of them...
It sure seems pretty clear that riders would like less classes! I hope some tracks and promoters are looking at this! Maybe a few of them will learn what their customers want.
With the class structure you (and many others as well) are purposing are you willing to pay $45-50 per entry fee so the promoter doesn't lose money? There is no way the model you are presenting is sustainable for promoters/owners without a significant price increase.
downard254
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3/3/2016 5:25pm
Less classes, Way less classes, WAY WAY WAY less classes. This is what drove me from racing. I would pay more for a well run weekend and full gates. If I'm going to race against 3-4 guys, and wait 6 hours between moto's, I'm going to find a different hobby. Sad,but true. I love MX, but go to a race with 40 classes and you barely get any time doing what you love, racing dirt cycles.
3/3/2016 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 5:33pm
Moto810 wrote:
Tracks can improve their bank accounts if they learn to change with the times! The riders are the customers and the customers have not been showing...
Tracks can improve their bank accounts if they learn to change with the times! The riders are the customers and the customers have not been showing up! As an average racing attendance is down around 50% the tracks claim over the past 10 years.

1) less classes and shorter race weekends

2) allow all local motorcycle shops to setup for FREE and sell parts or make repairs

3) run a $20 two stroke class (split it up by novice or intermediate if you have enough riders)

4) offer bike washing for a fee

5) sell better food

6) advertise your races on all available free sites and shops

7) communicate better with your customers by internet and on race day by having a schedule posted early


All of these things are basic in nature. Nothing difficult to do. The riders would thank you by paying you to race!
I don't want anyone washing my bike but me. Food doesnt matter.


Tracks do suck at advertising. I'll give you that. Just dump it on facebook and it'll advertise itself...NOT.


The less class model has been tried. Nobody shows up. Millenial mentality. We all need a special class to feel fair and win. (I'm a millenial) of course lots of millenials my age don't have money to race. They're busy serving beers as a waiter and trying to keep there head above water after they make the student loan payment each month. Point being there were quite a few classes in the 90s early 00s and attendance wasn't suffering. I don't think its a number of class issue with racing.
loftyair
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3/3/2016 5:35pm
I think running the smaller and less skilled have earlier motos. Make the pros run last. Track 'fits' better!
731chopper
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3/3/2016 5:38pm
mx510 wrote:
With the class structure you (and many others as well) are purposing are you willing to pay $45-50 per entry fee so the promoter doesn't lose...
With the class structure you (and many others as well) are purposing are you willing to pay $45-50 per entry fee so the promoter doesn't lose money? There is no way the model you are presenting is sustainable for promoters/owners without a significant price increase.
The way I see it is that there are plenty of people who stay home or go to another race because of there being too many classes and the day just takes too dang long. So what you lose in Billy going from 3 to 2 classes you gain by Bob showing up for 1 or maybe even 2 classes himself.

Trav138
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3/3/2016 5:47pm
Uncle Tony wrote:
Trav138 where does that leave me? I'm 58 that means I have to race the 40 plus and the 50 plus, fast guys for sure, so...
Trav138 where does that leave me? I'm 58 that means I have to race the 40 plus and the 50 plus, fast guys for sure, so I have to step up to the plate, but isn't that what moto is about?75 prices are no different then 16 prices minimum wage was a $1.85 in 1975, rubber band starts? That didn't come until later we did hand on helmet in neutral, I understand what you are saying but the amount of classes is just getting out of control

Plus to sit there and watch 4 50cc kids take 20 minutes to do 3 laps on an abbreviated track borders on ridiculous
And I agree with you maybe the vets should be divided into A/B/C but what I was trying to say was let them all start together all the 30 plus together then 40 together, scoring shouldn't be to much of a problem most tracks are using (at least around here) transponders
58 wow man thats awesome. Gives me inspiration to get healed up and in shape to get back to racing, i'm 44. Ya i miss the full gates and the competition that it brings out.
I remember all those 50 classes, they would run them up the hills and it took forever lol. Some good ideas in here
Moto810
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3/3/2016 6:37pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 6:46pm
Moto810 wrote:
Tracks can improve their bank accounts if they learn to change with the times! The riders are the customers and the customers have not been showing...
Tracks can improve their bank accounts if they learn to change with the times! The riders are the customers and the customers have not been showing up! As an average racing attendance is down around 50% the tracks claim over the past 10 years.

1) less classes and shorter race weekends

2) allow all local motorcycle shops to setup for FREE and sell parts or make repairs

3) run a $20 two stroke class (split it up by novice or intermediate if you have enough riders)

4) offer bike washing for a fee

5) sell better food

6) advertise your races on all available free sites and shops

7) communicate better with your customers by internet and on race day by having a schedule posted early


All of these things are basic in nature. Nothing difficult to do. The riders would thank you by paying you to race!
I don't want anyone washing my bike but me. Food doesnt matter. Tracks do suck at advertising. I'll give you that. Just dump it on facebook...
I don't want anyone washing my bike but me. Food doesnt matter.


Tracks do suck at advertising. I'll give you that. Just dump it on facebook and it'll advertise itself...NOT.


The less class model has been tried. Nobody shows up. Millenial mentality. We all need a special class to feel fair and win. (I'm a millenial) of course lots of millenials my age don't have money to race. They're busy serving beers as a waiter and trying to keep there head above water after they make the student loan payment each month. Point being there were quite a few classes in the 90s early 00s and attendance wasn't suffering. I don't think its a number of class issue with racing.
Tracks can have a pressure wash cart or station where you can wash your bike for a fee. Not saying another person is going to do it for you. But it is nice for some riders to clean their bike at the track and the track gets the money. That was my point. I have been to tracks before where they would had made a killing if they had a bike wash.

Food doesn't matter? I have seen a track that made a bundle on food! If you do the food correctly any big event can make money off of food.
mxrose3
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3/3/2016 6:40pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2016 6:40pm
Back in the early 80's (yeah i'm showing my age here), I rode at Englishtown and they only had Expert and Amateur classes A and B. The 125 B classes would be HUGE... so huge that they split it up into seperate divisions with over 40 riders per class at every race. And in each of those divisions, you had to run a qualifier to even make the second moto (they had to cut each class down to 40 riders). In my first few years racing there, I didn't even qualify for the second moto's, but I kept showing up, and eventually I did qualify for the second moto. Yes, they eventually succumbed and started a C class because the turnout justified it. But finishing 29th didn't stop me from coming to races back then.... I still had people my speed to race with in my class. It was just a long time before I got into a trophy paying position.

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