Alta Redshift Fast Charger?

jasonward73
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jasonward73 11/9/2017 9:44am
11/9/2017 9:44am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2017 3:15pm
EastFlorida wrote:
Jason, did you see the new Alta teaser video for the Enduro version? You saw my FTR proposal for the electric bikes, right?
Jason, did you see the new Alta teaser video for the Enduro version? You saw my FTR proposal for the electric bikes, right?
I was at WMR on Tuesday because when I was the KTM ride day in Okeechobee the guys at WMR told me about the EX. They only have the MX version at this time so I rode it and really liked it. According to them, the battery is the same but the mapping on the MX is a little more aggressive.

I think I’d probably go with the MX version but I need confirmation from someone that rides near my level that they finished a whole race on one. And not 90mins. The full 2hrs. This is my only hesitation with pulling trigger.

I’ve been told there is someone running map 4 and getting 90mins on a close coursed woods trail.

I have a purchase agreement in my inbox just waiting for a signature.

I didn’t see your electric bike proposal thing for FTR.
mark911
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mark911 11/9/2017 1:20pm
11/9/2017 1:20pm
The only way to charge a cell faster (500 cells in this case) is to apply more current. Li-ion cells are very sensitive to charge current and final charge voltage. Too much, too fast, and they will sustain irreversible capacity damage. Of course, EVERY time the pack is charged it looses a tiny bit of capacity, increased charge rates just makes it worse. Alta claims 1000 cycles before the pack hits the 80% capacity point, which is inline with current Li-ion technology at charge rates that maximize cycles. Knowing that using 220/240v increases the charge current and possible cell degradation, I wonder which input voltage (110 vs 220/240) Alta used to determine the life cycle rating of 1000 and if using the higher charge rate affects the rating?
Spizzy
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Spizzy 11/9/2017 2:26pm
11/9/2017 2:26pm
Spizzy wrote:
Quiet generators do not put out 220 volts. So buying a quiet 110 means you lose the fast charging option.
jasonward73 wrote:
A simple google search and you’d see why you are incredibly wrong. Check the Honda EU 7000. I ran my entire 3500 sq/ft house on it...
A simple google search and you’d see why you are incredibly wrong.

Check the Honda EU 7000. I ran my entire 3500 sq/ft house on it for a week after the last hurricane in FL and my neighbors thought I had power from grid cause they didn’t even know a generator was running.
I suppose every forum has one of "those" guys.
Of course I looked at the 7000, but the $3800 price tag, and being 260lbs, is a bit unrealistic considering the buy in already associated with the bike. And the weight isnt doing anybody any favors neither.
I suppose its comparable to bringing a 55 gallon drum of VP for one guy to go racing this weekend.
jasonward73
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jasonward73 11/9/2017 3:12pm
11/9/2017 3:12pm
Spizzy wrote:
I suppose every forum has one of "those" guys. Of course I looked at the 7000, but the $3800 price tag, and being 260lbs, is a...
I suppose every forum has one of "those" guys.
Of course I looked at the 7000, but the $3800 price tag, and being 260lbs, is a bit unrealistic considering the buy in already associated with the bike. And the weight isnt doing anybody any favors neither.
I suppose its comparable to bringing a 55 gallon drum of VP for one guy to go racing this weekend.
One of those guys? Really? How the F was I supposed to know you looked at the 7000?

You said "Quiet generators do not put out 220 volts." You're wrong and you rightly admitted that.

You didn't say "There is no such thing as small lightweight generator that produces 240v at a reasonable cost that would be easy to transport to the track."

If you did say that I probably would've called you Capt Obvious cause that would be like saying "There is no such thing as a modern car that is good on gas and goes 200mph and 0-60 in 2.5 secs for $35k that can also haul my MX bike."

I suppose we are just supposed to read your mind throughout the interwebs.

Gotcha!

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Spizzy
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Spizzy 11/9/2017 3:44pm
11/9/2017 3:44pm
A simple google search and you’d see why you are incredibly wrong.
It was this statement of yours that came off rather brash. A little common sense could have prevailed on your end, given the intended use of said generator. As opposed to suggesting the one that powered your 3500 sq ft home.

I erroneously assumed from one moto guy to another, I didnt need to spell evey single detail out, hence the "those" guys comment. But if you feel the need to claim victory, its ok by me.
Spizzy
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Spizzy 11/9/2017 3:46pm
11/9/2017 3:46pm
That DuroMax that Ben990 posted, I was just about to pull the trigger on Amazon at $399. Then the hurricanes hit, and it went up to $699, it still hasnt come back down yet.
nascarnate326 11/9/2017 4:55pm
11/9/2017 4:55pm
How fast does the alta charge with a 120v generator? We want to test an alta and all I have is a commercial 120v generator to charge it at the track.
jasonward73
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jasonward73 11/9/2017 5:48pm
11/9/2017 5:48pm
nascarnate326 wrote:
How fast does the alta charge with a 120v generator? We want to test an alta and all I have is a commercial 120v generator to...
How fast does the alta charge with a 120v generator? We want to test an alta and all I have is a commercial 120v generator to charge it at the track.
6hrs from dead to full.
early
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early 11/9/2017 5:59pm
11/9/2017 5:59pm
Spizzy wrote:
Quiet generators do not put out 220 volts. So buying a quiet 110 means you lose the fast charging option.
jasonward73 wrote:
A simple google search and you’d see why you are incredibly wrong. Check the Honda EU 7000. I ran my entire 3500 sq/ft house on it...
A simple google search and you’d see why you are incredibly wrong.

Check the Honda EU 7000. I ran my entire 3500 sq/ft house on it for a week after the last hurricane in FL and my neighbors thought I had power from grid cause they didn’t even know a generator was running.
A simple email to Alta could have answered your original question.
ben990
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ben990 11/10/2017 8:03am
11/10/2017 8:03am
nascarnate326 wrote:
How fast does the alta charge with a 120v generator? We want to test an alta and all I have is a commercial 120v generator to...
How fast does the alta charge with a 120v generator? We want to test an alta and all I have is a commercial 120v generator to charge it at the track.
jasonward73 wrote:
6hrs from dead to full.
From the Alta website:

With a 220V power source, the Redshift will charge in 2.5 hours. With a 110V power source, the Redshift will charge in about 4.5 hours.

I concur with this!
Squirrelings 11/10/2017 9:39am
11/10/2017 9:39am
TrailDigger wrote:
Generator is cheap to fix, so it's like paying way cheaper and making the bike last much longer than an IE between major costs. How much...
Generator is cheap to fix, so it's like paying way cheaper and making the bike last much longer than an IE between major costs.

How much does it cost to rebuild a generator? $40 for a piston and gaskets? That's compared to a rebuild on a 2t anywhere from 20-40 hours, and on a four stroke it's the same in some cases.

Versus a generator which will run for potentially HUNDREDS of hours before maintenance.

That's not even comparing how much fuel would cost to run an IE race bike compared to a generator running at half throttle for 6 hours on race day. That would be HUNDREDS of dollars on pump gas for a season. Not even including race gas for a modified bike.

If you race the Alta for a minimum of 4 years, you made up the difference in price. It's just a matter of paying the lump sum; no one can afford a 15k bike in one payment. THAT'S what is keeping it from catching on. WHEN battery technology increases and prices decrease, people will buy them.
On your average race day of 3 laps practice and 4-6 lap motos you'll go through a gallon of gas in your internal combustion bike and maybe put an hour on the engine. The same race day on an electric bike and you'll be running your generator and burning gas all day. Not the example you were trying to portray. My point was not a comparison in that matter. Just pointing out the fact that you're still running an engine and burning fuel to ride your bike, but you have to wait for your battery to charge in between. I'm not questioning the technology. Been racing RC as a second hobby for some time now and realize what the benefits can be.
R.EX
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R.EX 11/10/2017 10:36am
11/10/2017 10:36am
TrailDigger wrote:
Generator is cheap to fix, so it's like paying way cheaper and making the bike last much longer than an IE between major costs. How much...
Generator is cheap to fix, so it's like paying way cheaper and making the bike last much longer than an IE between major costs.

How much does it cost to rebuild a generator? $40 for a piston and gaskets? That's compared to a rebuild on a 2t anywhere from 20-40 hours, and on a four stroke it's the same in some cases.

Versus a generator which will run for potentially HUNDREDS of hours before maintenance.

That's not even comparing how much fuel would cost to run an IE race bike compared to a generator running at half throttle for 6 hours on race day. That would be HUNDREDS of dollars on pump gas for a season. Not even including race gas for a modified bike.

If you race the Alta for a minimum of 4 years, you made up the difference in price. It's just a matter of paying the lump sum; no one can afford a 15k bike in one payment. THAT'S what is keeping it from catching on. WHEN battery technology increases and prices decrease, people will buy them.
Squirrelings wrote:
On your average race day of 3 laps practice and 4-6 lap motos you'll go through a gallon of gas in your internal combustion bike and...
On your average race day of 3 laps practice and 4-6 lap motos you'll go through a gallon of gas in your internal combustion bike and maybe put an hour on the engine. The same race day on an electric bike and you'll be running your generator and burning gas all day. Not the example you were trying to portray. My point was not a comparison in that matter. Just pointing out the fact that you're still running an engine and burning fuel to ride your bike, but you have to wait for your battery to charge in between. I'm not questioning the technology. Been racing RC as a second hobby for some time now and realize what the benefits can be.
If I was only going to put an hour total on the bike, 45minutes on the generator would be plenty.
colintrax
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colintrax 11/10/2017 12:07pm
11/10/2017 12:07pm
TrailDigger wrote:
Generator is cheap to fix, so it's like paying way cheaper and making the bike last much longer than an IE between major costs. How much...
Generator is cheap to fix, so it's like paying way cheaper and making the bike last much longer than an IE between major costs.

How much does it cost to rebuild a generator? $40 for a piston and gaskets? That's compared to a rebuild on a 2t anywhere from 20-40 hours, and on a four stroke it's the same in some cases.

Versus a generator which will run for potentially HUNDREDS of hours before maintenance.

That's not even comparing how much fuel would cost to run an IE race bike compared to a generator running at half throttle for 6 hours on race day. That would be HUNDREDS of dollars on pump gas for a season. Not even including race gas for a modified bike.

If you race the Alta for a minimum of 4 years, you made up the difference in price. It's just a matter of paying the lump sum; no one can afford a 15k bike in one payment. THAT'S what is keeping it from catching on. WHEN battery technology increases and prices decrease, people will buy them.
Squirrelings wrote:
On your average race day of 3 laps practice and 4-6 lap motos you'll go through a gallon of gas in your internal combustion bike and...
On your average race day of 3 laps practice and 4-6 lap motos you'll go through a gallon of gas in your internal combustion bike and maybe put an hour on the engine. The same race day on an electric bike and you'll be running your generator and burning gas all day. Not the example you were trying to portray. My point was not a comparison in that matter. Just pointing out the fact that you're still running an engine and burning fuel to ride your bike, but you have to wait for your battery to charge in between. I'm not questioning the technology. Been racing RC as a second hobby for some time now and realize what the benefits can be.
The alta likely won't need to be recharged if you're only riding an hour. And if you do top it off, the generator is only running to charge the bike, not "all day"
jasonward73
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jasonward73 11/10/2017 6:28pm
11/10/2017 6:28pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2017 6:29pm
early wrote:
A simple email to Alta could have answered your original question.
Since they have nothing in the owner manual (Yes, I read it) or on their website on how to charge from a 240v source it leads me to believe their system isn’t ready for prime time.

And the explanation of how to hand make the plug adaptor confirmed that. I don’t know NEC but I’m guessing this adaptor plug pictured in this thread doesn’t exactly meet their standards. I’m not saying it doesn’t work. It obviously does. It just doesn’t seem like something Alta is officially signing off on since you can’t find it in writing anywhere and you can’t just order the adaptor cord from them.

My mobile charging cord for my Tesla has Tesla supplied adaptors that fit nearly every single type of electrical outlet you can find in America and the cars charger just senses the source and draws the correct amperage all automatically. That’s a system ready for prime time. That’s not a knock on Alta, just an explanation as to why I had to ask the question.

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