Almost time, goodbye big-bore(450)

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9/12/2018 6:57 PM

Just like back in the day. The 250 is getting close to almost always being a faster bike on any mx/sx track than the open. Other than Peick, most these new kids are actually faster longer on the small bike. A few more years, goodbye (too much motor) bike!

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9/12/2018 7:11 PM

you must be drinking all your beers that you bought for MXDN.

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Unleaded tastes a little tangy. Supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

9/12/2018 7:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/12/2018 7:14 PM

You must be 16! 450’s aren’t going anywhere. I’d argue that in the general population of 20 and up, there are more 450’s sold than 250’s sold. They are less maintenance than the 250’s. You have to ride the piss out of a 250F. You are thinking of Pro’s. The majority of people aren’t pro’s. Only about 1% of those!

The 25+ and up prefer the 450 because you don’t have to ride as hard to go the same speed as riding the 250 on the edge.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

9/12/2018 7:11 PM

So, as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take freedom away, I want to say those fighting words for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. loftyair:

'From my cold, dead hands!'

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9/12/2018 8:36 PM

Racer111 wrote:

You must be 16! 450’s aren’t going anywhere. I’d argue that in the general population of 20 and up, there are more 450’s sold ...more

2T’s are much less maintenance than 4T’s and they have lower production cost but that didn’t stop manufacturers producing four strokes only. Also you gotta remember from 40+ a large chunk of the population are going 250’s to avoid the whiskey throttle

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9/12/2018 8:39 PM

Racer111 wrote:

You must be 16! 450’s aren’t going anywhere. I’d argue that in the general population of 20 and up, there are more 450’s sold ...more

Fresh wrote:

2T’s are much less maintenance than 4T’s and they have lower production cost but that didn’t stop manufacturers producing four ...more

Interesting view, in my riding area a lot of the older guys are going from 250's and 350's to 450's

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

9/12/2018 10:01 PM

Racer111 wrote:

You must be 16! 450’s aren’t going anywhere. I’d argue that in the general population of 20 and up, there are more 450’s sold ...more

Fresh wrote:

2T’s are much less maintenance than 4T’s and they have lower production cost but that didn’t stop manufacturers producing four ...more

kiwifan wrote:

Interesting view, in my riding area a lot of the older guys are going from 250's and 350's to 450's

Opposite here in the NW usa. Lot's of vet guy's I have seen step off the 450's and down to 250F's. I kinda did it a little different and went 250 2 stroke. But as far as that goes.....these newer 450's are so fast now day's , that when you push yourself ( in your 40's and 50's ).....they can get a little scary with a little whiskey throttle. Has bitten a lot of my friend's , which swapped to a 250F....and they couldn't be happier.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

9/12/2018 10:03 PM

Fresh wrote:

2T’s are much less maintenance than 4T’s and they have lower production cost but that didn’t stop manufacturers producing four ...more

kiwifan wrote:

Interesting view, in my riding area a lot of the older guys are going from 250's and 350's to 450's

jeffro503 wrote:

Opposite here in the NW usa. Lot's of vet guy's I have seen step off the 450's and down to 250F's. I kinda did it a little ...more

Total opposite here. Only people on 250's are the young guys.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

9/12/2018 10:04 PM

Racer111 wrote:

You must be 16! 450’s aren’t going anywhere. I’d argue that in the general population of 20 and up, there are more 450’s sold ...more

You need to go hit some big Vet races , then come back here and report what you hear. What you just said isn't true for a lot of folks.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

9/12/2018 10:17 PM

450's will be here until electric bikes rule the roost.

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Current: 2010 TM 250MX
Previous: 2012 KX450f, 2009 K8 RM250, 2012 RMZ250, 2008 YZ125

9/12/2018 10:25 PM

Does anyone have the actual numbers of how many mx bikes are sold and what the ratio of 250s to 450s is?

Btw I switched back to 250s. My yz250f has enough power for the tracks around here and I like the lighter feel.

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9/12/2018 10:26 PM

jeffro503 wrote:

Opposite here in the NW usa. Lot's of vet guy's I have seen step off the 450's and down to 250F's. I kinda did it a little ...more

Good thread OP. I agree with Jeffro. I did that myself to rehab from an injury, but when I started getting back up to speed and began racing again (I’m not much of a pro practice rider) I was able to turn quicker laptimes on the 450, so I went back to it. Yes it has already bit me hard, never had that issue with the 250f.

Now if I had a 7000 dollar motor in my 250f I would have stuck with it for sure. ?

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9/12/2018 10:40 PM

thorns wrote:

450's will be here until electric bikes rule the roost.

Booooooooo! I hope I'm not around to see it.
The noise of 40 electric bikes hammering up the start straight will really get everyones heart pumping. blink sad unsure

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9/12/2018 11:22 PM

kiwifan wrote:

Interesting view, in my riding area a lot of the older guys are going from 250's and 350's to 450's

jeffro503 wrote:

Opposite here in the NW usa. Lot's of vet guy's I have seen step off the 450's and down to 250F's. I kinda did it a little ...more

swtwtwtw wrote:

Good thread OP. I agree with Jeffro. I did that myself to rehab from an injury, but when I started getting back up to speed ...more

I really think it all depends on the rider himself , skill , size , aggressive or not , what kind of racing he's doing...ect....

I'm thinking real hard on getting a 19' 450 , and I told myself I'd never get one again. But just like I always do , I change my mind like 4 times a week.

But...like I mentioned before , especially in the OTMX races ( where motos are long ) quite a few guys stepped down to a 250F. But again..... depends on what you want to do with the bike you have.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

9/13/2018 12:37 AM

Racer111 wrote:

You must be 16! 450’s aren’t going anywhere. I’d argue that in the general population of 20 and up, there are more 450’s sold ...more

jeffro503 wrote:

You need to go hit some big Vet races , then come back here and report what you hear. What you just said isn't true for a lot ...more

I live in NC. I race here, KY, TN, GA, SC and Florida. The overwhelming majority are on 450’s. It’s the whole reason I went from a 250F to a 450F. I was getting crushed on starts and having to ride like a demon to come through the pack. Now my starts are better and I can ride my race.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

9/13/2018 12:37 AM

I always thought that this guy was a genius:
Photo
Yoshiharu Nakayama. Pic from pulpmx (http://pulpmx.com/2012/10/11/gps-classic-steel-29-1998-yamaha-yz400f/)

He thought 400cc would be the right displacement to compete against 250 two strokes. Why in the hell did they (Honda?) go to 450cc? 400 is maybe the perfect number..

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9/13/2018 12:55 AM

#434 wrote:

I always thought that this guy was a genius:
Photo
Yoshiharu Nakayama. Pic from pulpmx ( ...more

Meh, the current 350s are faster than 250 two strokes anyways, so it's not like a 400 would have given them much more of a shot.. maybe kept them closer for a couple extra years. But with the constant development of the four strokes and stagnation of two stroke tech, it was only a matter of time.

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9/13/2018 1:12 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/13/2018 1:13 AM

kevin204 wrote:

Meh, the current 350s are faster than 250 two strokes anyways, so it's not like a 400 would have given them much more of a ...more

We're talking about 450 being too much, not which displacement rule would have been fair.
I think 400 was a good number and maybe it would be a good idea to go back. That wouldn't require a huge change in engine architecture from the manufactures and reduce the power of the bikes by 10%.

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9/13/2018 3:56 AM

only little girls think 450s have too much power. Grow a pair and ride it!

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9/13/2018 4:45 AM

What about 350 indoors and 450/Open outdoors? You could give the manufacturers 2* years to develop a prototype and then another 2* years to run it without restrictions. 5th year would be back to the standard rules. Then for outdoors, they can either stay on the 350 or shift to the larger displacement if desired. I think you'd see many guys stick to the 350 if this were the case.

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9/13/2018 5:08 AM

ga_pike wrote:

What about 350 indoors and 450/Open outdoors? You could give the manufacturers 2* years to develop a prototype and then ...more

Sounds like you just made the sport that much more expensive. So now teams that want to run Supercross and The Outdoors will need to have two different bikes for the premier class? No thanks. We don’t have enough spots for riders as it is.

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9/13/2018 5:33 AM

I'm thinking hard about a YZ450FX, with the tuner app you could dial back the power, but still have the 450 longevity. I'm tired of always trying to get more from my 250f: Exhaust, hotcams, big bore.... I like the thought of turning down the HP in the trees, but if I'm at the sand dunes the ability to get on my phone and dial back up!

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9/13/2018 5:37 AM

kb228 wrote:

only little girls think 450s have too much power. Grow a pair and ride it!

This opinion is shared by many Vet C riders...

I was watching Justin Cooper lay down lap times within one second of Eli Tomac all year long on tracks with gnarly uphills, off cambers etc. A 250 has plenty of power for anyone who has the skill and ability to use the top end (or ride a gear high and carry momentum). A modern 250f will do both with ease.

Fitness plays a huge factor in safety and many of the older folks on a 450 ride one because it’s easier to go faster, but they’re also not in “great shape”. When you’re tired the 450 is way easier to get into trouble on.

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9/13/2018 5:38 AM

Since no one has said it yet... Much ty...

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9/13/2018 5:58 AM

Small bore has always been “faster” when ridden properly due to the increased momentum required in the corners. Ask Dave Thorpe what it was like to get smoked by a 125 at the des nations.

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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

9/13/2018 7:14 AM

kevin204 wrote:

Meh, the current 350s are faster than 250 two strokes anyways, so it's not like a 400 would have given them much more of a ...more

You looking for a tilly, buddy?

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

9/13/2018 7:21 AM

Donovan759 wrote:

Since no one has said it yet... Much ty...

X2

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9/13/2018 8:45 AM

kb228 wrote:

only little girls think 450s have too much power. Grow a pair and ride it!

observeroffacts wrote:

This opinion is shared by many Vet C riders...

I was watching Justin Cooper lay down lap times within one second of Eli Tomac ...more

Riiiiight!! You were watching a top pro on a FACTORY 250. You can’t buy those. And it was a little more than a second a lap that Cooper was putting in. Most races they did 13-15 laps depending on the track. That means if they were both racing together, Cooper got beat by 15-20 seconds. That’s not close at that level.

“There is no replacement for displacement.“ I don’t care who you are.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

9/13/2018 9:02 AM

I did lap time averages on the top twenty riders in some nationals and the 250's and 450' were very close. Southwick the top twenty 250's were faster than the top twenty 450's. Unless weight or laziness is a factor the 250F is quite sufficient.

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9/13/2018 9:07 AM

kb228 wrote:

only little girls think 450s have too much power. Grow a pair and ride it!

What if you pass them on a 125, are you still a little girl?

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