Allowable contact on track between racers

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4/4/2020 6:53 AM

I was reading this article about on track contact between racers in MotoGP and I was thinking how different it is in MX.

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/148904/gibernau-jerez-05-rossi-clash-set-bad-precedent

For any type of road track racing, you can always establish which bike is behind at the end of the strait by seeing when the last guy pulls his break and and the last front end dips on the last breaker. Then you can see if the racer that is behind has his front tire is equal or ahead at the point of contact. Those 2 facts are a good starting points to analyze on-track contact.

But I dont see those types of good "markers" in cornering contact in MX. Plus "not staying on line / holding your line" in a strait is usually caused by a jump face rut that throws the racer out of line rather than a purposeful move. Obviously MX allows at lot more contact. You're not going to see a racer go down at 100-200 mph after contact in MX, so contact is not as dangerous as road track.

Even tho MX contact is different and more tolerated, what do you think about the forced contact block pass. Sometimes it even takes the guy to the dirt and race direction doesnt ever seem to react. Should we have guidelines for limits of contact in MX.? What kinds of guidelines would be clear and easy to interpret from week to week by different authorities in race direction.?

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4/4/2020 7:14 AM

No. Go away.

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4/4/2020 7:34 AM

t_baum88 wrote:

No. Go away.

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob enforcer type racers get to rise to the top (because everyone else is in the hospital)

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4/4/2020 7:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/4/2020 7:40 AM

t_baum88 wrote:

No. Go away.

skiz wrote:

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob ...more

Golf is yer game, go play It.

6 feet minimum.

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4/4/2020 7:57 AM

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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2021 KTM 350 SXF
2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

4/4/2020 8:11 AM

t_baum88 wrote:

No. Go away.

skiz wrote:

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob ...more

BobbyM wrote:

Golf is yer game, go play It.

6 feet minimum.

Im not into golf but Ive played full contact pool before.

No sticks, one guy shoots at stripes with the Q ball, the other guy shoots at solids with the 8 ball, both guys shoot at the same time. Full contact.!! Im not saying we punched each other or tackled each other but there were hockey style "checks" and busted fingers with all the balls zipping around.

I could see that as a TV broadcast sport, MMA Pool Sharks

No 6 feet minimums

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4/4/2020 8:22 AM

Lost me at strait.

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4/4/2020 8:43 AM

sumdood wrote:

Lost me at strait.

Adding silent "gh" to our words is a successful French propaganda campaign. Damn !! I just spelled cam-pain with a silent "g". Those French are sneaky.

The French even threw a cow at King Arthur. It was caught on video in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

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4/4/2020 9:25 AM

sumdood wrote:

Lost me at strait.

skiz wrote:

Adding silent "gh" to our words is a successful French propaganda campaign. Damn !! I just spelled cam-pain with a silent "g". ...more

"For any type of road track racing, you can always establish which bike is behind at the end of the strait by seeing when the last guy pulls his break and and the last front end dips on the last breaker. Then you can see if the racer that is behind has his front tire is equal or ahead at the point of contact. Those 2 facts are a good starting points to analyze on-track contact."
Aaaahhhhh I get we're all bored but geeezuuuusssss.....

Where do I push 1 for English ? laughing

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4/4/2020 9:30 AM

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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2021 KTM 350 SXF
2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

4/4/2020 9:33 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/4/2020 9:34 AM

This is a contact sport....please don't pussify it like everything else in the world.

Okay guys...I'm still somewhat new around here. What is the significance of the "bear" posts. Edjamacate me please.

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Support those who protect us....our military, law enforcement and 1st responders.



4/4/2020 9:38 AM

Dirty riding and punishable contact on an MX/SX track is much like pornography. I can’t exactly define it, but I know it when I see it.....

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4/4/2020 9:43 AM

Indian_Dunes_4ever wrote:

This is a contact sport....please don't pussify it like everything else in the world.

Okay guys...I'm still somewhat new ...more

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4/4/2020 1:02 PM

skiz wrote:

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob ...more

BobbyM wrote:

Golf is yer game, go play It.

6 feet minimum.

skiz wrote:

Im not into golf but Ive played full contact pool before.

No sticks, one guy shoots at stripes with the Q ball, the other guy ...more

You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound... No way.

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4/4/2020 2:57 PM

BobbyM wrote:

You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound... No way.

Here he is Ladies and Gentlemen !

The awesome, the brilliant, the true genius !!

Over 20 thousand posts and still bringing you the vomit from the bottom of the barrel !!

BobbyM, I stand in awe of your deep intellect

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4/4/2020 3:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/4/2020 3:00 PM

Demolition derby rules are apparently what passes as intelligence for some people. All t-boning allowed, right Bobby.?

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4/4/2020 3:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/4/2020 3:15 PM

sumdood wrote:

Lost me at strait.

Joe exotic would like a word with you

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4/5/2020 5:51 AM

sumdood wrote:

Lost me at strait.

What the hell's wrong with you? You don't like King George?

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2019 KTM 150 SX
2019 Husqvarna TX300
2021 Honda CB500X

4/5/2020 6:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/5/2020 6:13 PM

t_baum88 wrote:

No. Go away.

skiz wrote:

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob ...more

Skiz, I find it terrifying that there are actually people like yourself in this world that not only have such thoughts, but feel confident enough in them to share them publicly. I think you drank some of that Ralph Nader cool-aid. I've heard it's effects on the brain are irreversible. Sad...

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4/5/2020 9:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/5/2020 9:11 PM

sumdood wrote:

Lost me at strait.

HighPlainsSquid wrote:

What the hell's wrong with you? You don't like King George?

cool We like George 👍. Seen him twice in Vegas. I’d like to see him someplace besides that sardine can they call a concert venue. Red Rocks would be bad ass but I think he only plays in Vegas now, , and only during rodeo week ? Yes I’m trying to change the subject. Let them slam all they want, they’ll work it out .....
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4/6/2020 5:39 AM

t_baum88 wrote:

No. Go away.

skiz wrote:

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob ...more

TeeJay54 wrote:

Skiz, I find it terrifying that there are actually people like yourself in this world that not only have such thoughts, but ...more

I understand that side-by side contact cant be projected because of the uneven dirt but when one guy comes in too hot to have any chance to stop and t-bones another guy, Im one of the confident cool-aid drinkers that are willing to say that a motorcycle is not a missile. Have you ever seen a guys leg split open after a t-bone hit.? Is that how Elis career should end.?

Theres even Ralph Nader cool-aid drinkers inside the MMA rings. Theyre called the referee.

PS
I know you couldnt possibly be so uncaring about the careers of guys with real talent. I understand your havin fun stirin the pot. We can continue to play Good Cop, Bad Cop, if you want. Stir and stir away. Every stir brings the thread to the top where somebody mite actually want to make a real comment.

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4/6/2020 5:49 AM

sumdood wrote: cool We like George . Seen him twice in Vegas. I’d like to see him someplace besides that sardine can they call a concert venue. ...more

"Yes I’m trying to change the subject."

Say it aint so.! We're havin so much fun here. Got to keep the train wreck goin.
Have you ever noticed that when humans watch a train wreck video, as each car flips onto its side, one after another, with each car flipping we make a louder and louder sound, "no, NO, NOOO, NOOOOOO!"

Everybody loves a train wreck.

Plus my original question was really an true question that I wondered what responses I would get. I think I just picked the wrong website to look for a serious answer.

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4/6/2020 6:30 AM

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4/6/2020 8:25 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/6/2020 8:33 AM

skiz wrote:

So thats one vote for demolition derby rules. All t-boning allowed.

I think thats promotes very short careers and mob ...more

TeeJay54 wrote:

Skiz, I find it terrifying that there are actually people like yourself in this world that not only have such thoughts, but ...more

skiz wrote:

I understand that side-by side contact cant be projected because of the uneven dirt but when one guy comes in too hot to have ...more

Skiz, it's not a lack of caring about the safety of everyone on the track, not at all. It's an understanding of the effect that over-legislation has on any sport. I believe strongly in track safety and admire what guys like Jackie Stewart did for Formula 1. However... I have no faith at all in the ability of any sanctioning organization such as the AMA or FIM to avoid abusing any rule to further their own political and financial goals. Give them a rule and it will be applied selectively. It has happened far too many times in the history of our sport. I do have faith in the morals, values and sportsmanship of the individual riders, the fans and the sponsors.
Just two of many incidents come to mind: Rossi and Marquez at the 2015 Sepang MotoGP. Watch the video. Throughout the race, Marquez continued to try to pass in foolish ways, putting both riders in danger. Yet the track officials did nothing. Rossi had finally had enough and masterfully (and rightfully) took Marquez out. The controversy that followed sickened me. Then, take a look at what the FIM did to Falta in the 1974 250 World Motocross Championship. Those two incidents are a couple of bookends, with so many incidents in the 40+ years between them. I have no confidence at all in the sanctioning body officials when it comes to areas as subjective as contact on the track. History consistently backs up my opinion and that is why I feel the way that I do. Once again, I believe in the individual rider's discretion. We don't live in a perfect world. There will always be a few dirty riders, but the damage to our sport will still be far less than allowing rules that will be nothing but giving control to sanctioning bodies that have proven to be incapable of ethical, consistent enforcement. We are all so fortunate to be involved in motocross, the greatest sport in the world. Let's keep it alive for the generations to come with intelligent and informed opinions. Even though we might disagree, I'm glad that you posted this topic.

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4/6/2020 9:42 AM

"However... I have no faith at all in the ability of any sanctioning organization such as the AMA or FIM to avoid abusing any rule to further their own political and financial goals. Give them a rule and it will be applied selectively. It has happened far too many times in the history of our sport. I do have faith in the morals, values and sportsmanship of the individual riders, the fans and the sponsors."

"Once again, I believe in the individual rider's discretion. We don't live in a perfect world. There will always be a few dirty riders, but the damage to our sport will still be far less than allowing rules that will be nothing but giving control to sanctioning bodies that have proven to be incapable of ethical, consistent enforcement."

Those are very valid points. I don't think individual rider's discretion is enough, but I think we're closer to agreement than you might think.

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4/6/2020 9:58 AM

BobbyM wrote:

Golf is yer game, go play It.

6 feet minimum.

skiz wrote:

Im not into golf but Ive played full contact pool before.

No sticks, one guy shoots at stripes with the Q ball, the other guy ...more

BobbyM wrote:

You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound... No way.

Skiz, one more thought. Here's a lesson in the definition of what an INFORMED opinion is or isn't: your snarky criticism of BobbyM. If you were informed, you would know that his opinion on accepting the inherent dangers of our sport and it's potential consequences deserves an IMMENSE level of respect.

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4/6/2020 10:15 AM

Anything over 45 degrees is fair game

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4/6/2020 11:31 AM

skiz wrote:

Im not into golf but Ive played full contact pool before.

No sticks, one guy shoots at stripes with the Q ball, the other guy ...more

BobbyM wrote:

You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound... No way.

TeeJay54 wrote:

Skiz, one more thought. Here's a lesson in the definition of what an INFORMED opinion is or isn't: your snarky criticism of ...more

snarky criticism.?

What is "Golf is yer game, go play It."? That was his first post.

What is "You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound... No way" Is that respectful?

"If you were informed, you would know that his opinion on.... "
This is a thread with a question at the beginning. There's nothing inherently "informed" here other than what is said.

Bobby obviously wanted to play the insult game. I don't mind that game. Look at this whole thread. I've played along with whatever cuts and jams were dished out. Those that wish to be treated with "an IMMENSE level of respect" conduct themselves accordingly. I think it was very obvious that Bobby was having fun insulting. I didn't mind. But apparently you do.

If Bobby is not offended and I'm not offended, why are you offended?

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4/6/2020 12:03 PM

Man, seems like we just can't leave things alone anymore without over thinking it, and wanting to create new rules to force people to abide. The real world is a rough place where things tend to sort themselves out one way or another, and I'm glad motocross reflects that.

Serious question: if it's fine for the pros the way it is, why are you worried about it?

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4/6/2020 12:30 PM

FortyHat wrote:

Man, seems like we just can't leave things alone anymore without over thinking it, and wanting to create new rules to force ...more

Yes!

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