Alex Martin JGR 2019?

SidewayzMike
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8/25/2018 2:39pm
Yea yea yea we all know the Suzuki was underpowered this year. However with Suzuki’s new bike (250) you have to believe those horsepower numbers are going to be up. Possibly way up. I know JGR had a lot of Suzuki technicians from japan testing heads for the new bike. Now maybe the stock bike won’t be blowing away any Yamaha’s or KTMs off the line but what I heard the JGR guys were going for were something that would allow them to make huge gains on the race bikes. JGRs main complaint with the old Suzuki 250 was that the platform just didn’t give them any room to make big horsepower gains. This new Suzuki 250 will be a lot better Stock but the new bike will allow JGR to really make it rip. For Alex Martin to switch to Suzuki won’t be a career suicide at the moment, it’ll be on him what he can do. The bike should be excellent for SX, I hope a’mart goes to JGR. Suzuki had a few bad years but with the fire under their ass from JGR they’re going back to the front.
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plowboy
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8/25/2018 2:43pm
Alex is my guy and I just don't know what happened the last third of the season. Maybe his brothers injury playing on his mind...an injury not reported...idk.
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wreckitrandy
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8/25/2018 4:26pm
Motofinne wrote:
How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and 18 450.
Ray_MXS wrote:
Not enough
Why does it need to get lighter? The bikes that moved closer to the Zookie's weight, moved up in the shootout...
SidewayzMike
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8/26/2018 11:42am
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do it outdoors and he did it t again. Tho there’s a disadvantage off the start no way a bikes horsepower is going to slow you down thru some whoops. Just saying... is the Suzuki deal done with A’mart?.
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jbrown15
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8/26/2018 11:59am
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do...
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do it outdoors and he did it t again. Tho there’s a disadvantage off the start no way a bikes horsepower is going to slow you down thru some whoops. Just saying... is the Suzuki deal done with A’mart?.
You have to remember that Stew did it when 125's were probably at their highest development though, at the time they were getting all they could out of 125's. The 250f's were at their beginning stages, so no where near their full potential.

You could pretty much take any of the stock 2019 250f's and it would walk all over the factory 250f's James was racing against on the 125. There is no way someone with Stew's talents now a days could do that against the current crop of factory 250f's.
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WFO
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8/26/2018 12:47pm
JGR hs plenty enough $$$ and smarts to make the RMZ 250 competitive and help define some changes for the next year.
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Ramrod
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8/26/2018 1:55pm
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do...
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do it outdoors and he did it t again. Tho there’s a disadvantage off the start no way a bikes horsepower is going to slow you down thru some whoops. Just saying... is the Suzuki deal done with A’mart?.
jbrown15 wrote:
You have to remember that Stew did it when 125's were probably at their highest development though, at the time they were getting all they could...
You have to remember that Stew did it when 125's were probably at their highest development though, at the time they were getting all they could out of 125's. The 250f's were at their beginning stages, so no where near their full potential.

You could pretty much take any of the stock 2019 250f's and it would walk all over the factory 250f's James was racing against on the 125. There is no way someone with Stew's talents now a days could do that against the current crop of factory 250f's.
In my mind, I’d like to think Stewy could still do it but your reasoning sounds right.

For a rider to beat the 250f field on a 125 would be mind blowing.

Remember the last race of the year for Stewy that season he rode a 250f and laid the wood again. He was spectacular.
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ML512
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8/26/2018 3:00pm
Motofinne wrote:
How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and 18 450.
Ray_MXS wrote:
Not enough
Why does it need to get lighter? The bikes that moved closer to the Zookie's weight, moved up in the shootout...
The Yamaha got lighter in ‘18 and the Honda did too in ‘19.
ML512
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8/26/2018 3:02pm
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do...
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do it outdoors and he did it t again. Tho there’s a disadvantage off the start no way a bikes horsepower is going to slow you down thru some whoops. Just saying... is the Suzuki deal done with A’mart?.
Pretty much every current stock 250F puts out higher numbers/more useable power than the factory 250s that James raced in ‘04.
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deanwhite51
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8/26/2018 3:27pm
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it...
And as far as the 450 goes... I haven't seen any pro's actually complain about the bike other then magazine reviews and vital guys talking about them.

Lawrence is the only rider i know of saying compared to the CRF theirs a difference. but yet again. He got better result on that "yellow turd" every one keeps talking down about.
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-MAVERICK-
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8/26/2018 4:30pm
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it... And as...
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it...
And as far as the 450 goes... I haven't seen any pro's actually complain about the bike other then magazine reviews and vital guys talking about them.

Lawrence is the only rider i know of saying compared to the CRF theirs a difference. but yet again. He got better result on that "yellow turd" every one keeps talking down about.
Justin Hill won the 250 SX West title in 2017 on a Kawasaki. He ran the number 1 plate this year on the Suzuki and finished 6th overall with 2 podiums. 1 win and a 3rd.
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deanwhite51
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8/26/2018 4:34pm
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it... And as...
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it...
And as far as the 450 goes... I haven't seen any pro's actually complain about the bike other then magazine reviews and vital guys talking about them.

Lawrence is the only rider i know of saying compared to the CRF theirs a difference. but yet again. He got better result on that "yellow turd" every one keeps talking down about.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Justin Hill won the 250 SX West title in 2017 on a Kawasaki. He ran the number 1 plate this year on the Suzuki and finished...
Justin Hill won the 250 SX West title in 2017 on a Kawasaki. He ran the number 1 plate this year on the Suzuki and finished 6th overall with 2 podiums. 1 win and a 3rd.
Correct,
SO that RMZ250 cant be that bad to get "2 podiums. 1 win and a 3rd."

-MAVERICK-
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8/26/2018 4:55pm
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it... And as...
Didn't Justin Hill win on an RMZ last year in Supercross? cant be that bad of a bike if you can win on it...
And as far as the 450 goes... I haven't seen any pro's actually complain about the bike other then magazine reviews and vital guys talking about them.

Lawrence is the only rider i know of saying compared to the CRF theirs a difference. but yet again. He got better result on that "yellow turd" every one keeps talking down about.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Justin Hill won the 250 SX West title in 2017 on a Kawasaki. He ran the number 1 plate this year on the Suzuki and finished...
Justin Hill won the 250 SX West title in 2017 on a Kawasaki. He ran the number 1 plate this year on the Suzuki and finished 6th overall with 2 podiums. 1 win and a 3rd.
Correct,
SO that RMZ250 cant be that bad to get "2 podiums. 1 win and a 3rd."

Probably would have more podiums/wins had it been ridden by someone other than Hill. He won the title and packed away his 250 ride. All he had on his mind was the 450.
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jbrown15
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8/26/2018 6:14pm
Correct,
SO that RMZ250 cant be that bad to get "2 podiums. 1 win and a 3rd."

Keep in mind that you can get away being down on power a little in SX, not so much the case in MX.
WTaylor7
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8/26/2018 7:02pm
From what I have heard he is signing a deal with Fly so that would put him out at TLD
jbrown15
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8/26/2018 7:15pm
WTaylor7 wrote:
From what I have heard he is signing a deal with Fly so that would put him out at TLD
It's common knowledge that he's already out at TLD, he's already signed with JGR for 2019.
8/26/2018 7:21pm
jbrown15 wrote:
Keep in mind that you can get away being down on power a little in SX, not so much the case in MX.
Not disagreeing with you, but Enzo Lopes has been doing exceptionally well (albeit inconsistently) this outdoor season on the RMZ.
jbrown15
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8/26/2018 7:27pm
jbrown15 wrote:
Keep in mind that you can get away being down on power a little in SX, not so much the case in MX.
Not disagreeing with you, but Enzo Lopes has been doing exceptionally well (albeit inconsistently) this outdoor season on the RMZ.
He's done awesome, but you can tell the JGR bikes are down a little on power still.
8/26/2018 7:55pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He said that he thinks...
I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He said that he thinks A-Mart is going to JGR Suzuki for next year. If he does how do you guys think he'll do? Hopefully Suzuki comes out with a new 250, cause hes going to go from one of the fastest 250fs to one that isnt quite on par with the competition.
And what makes you think that the 250 isnt up to par with the competition?

8/26/2018 8:20pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He said that he thinks...
I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He said that he thinks A-Mart is going to JGR Suzuki for next year. If he does how do you guys think he'll do? Hopefully Suzuki comes out with a new 250, cause hes going to go from one of the fastest 250fs to one that isnt quite on par with the competition.
Since there are so many people on here that know so much about bikes, please explain to me the difference in power numbers from one factory...
Since there are so many people on here that know so much about bikes, please explain to me the difference in power numbers from one factory bike to another. Show me the gear ratios all the way down to the way factories cut their transmissions. A lot of guys on these forums really know jack about what goes into a factory bike. You think these riders are riding a bike from a crate that you can buy from a dealer? Not too mention the new Suzuki is a damn good bike out of the crate. So not sure why so many of you bench racers like to discuss issues with a bike you have never ridden yourself. Lets not base our thoughts off of a shootout that already have bias going into riding/testing these bikes.

mxjon454 wrote:
You really think that the JGR 250 is on par with a PC Kawi, a Geico Honda, TLD KTM, Rockstar Husky, or a Star Yamaha? You...
You really think that the JGR 250 is on par with a PC Kawi, a Geico Honda, TLD KTM, Rockstar Husky, or a Star Yamaha? You are out of your mind. Of course i dont know the number on all these bikes, but it doesnt take a scientist to know that the last time Suzuki had a offical 250 team was in 2012 and then Bobbt Hewitt had his team run Suzukis in 2013. That was the last time that bike had any kind of real development from a good team trying to make that bike better. And in 2013 that 250f was already in its 4th year with that motor and chassis, and here we are in 2018 with the same bike, besides maybe some very minor changes. In stock trim that bike is lacking in horsepower compared to all the other bikes. But you really think that JGR 250 is on par with all these other team bikes who have been constantly developing their brands to make them better and faster. Ill go ahead and tell you that its not on par for someone of Alex Martins caliber.
Some of you guys are hilariously funny!!! Yes the factory Suzuki is on par with any other factory bike. If you think otherwise you clearly have no clue. Secondly, the reason why Suzuki has had no 250 team isnt due to the bike and its development, its due to the fact of money. Suzuki hasnt allocated money to a 250 team for their own reasons. Definitely not because the bike isnt worth developing or because its not competitive.

To say that Suzuki is not up too par to have the caliber of an Alex Martin ride it, is just crazy!!! You seriously need help my man. Did you not see Justin Hill win on this bike just a few months back? Justin said himself the bike is plenty capable and feels better in a lot of areas than the Pc bike he came off of the year earlier.

While we are on this subject please explain to me where they have made their bikes so much better? Please explain this development that you are going on about? All this develpoment and all these bikes can still barely outmatch the stock cornering abilites of the mighty Zook. All I hear is about hp talk, nobody talks about how the bikes reliability is or how they handle. Any one of these brands can make as much horsepower as the next. If you think otherwise you are living underneath a rock. Generating power is the easy part, its applying it to the chassis and ability to get that power to the ground while zapping in and around corners, thats the difficult part. Suzuki knows its been ahead of the game a long time. You dont need to fix what isnt broken. For a bike you are so down about, its won many championships over the years.
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haydos25
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8/26/2018 8:28pm
Some of you guys are hilariously funny!!! Yes the factory Suzuki is on par with any other factory bike. If you think otherwise you clearly have...
Some of you guys are hilariously funny!!! Yes the factory Suzuki is on par with any other factory bike. If you think otherwise you clearly have no clue. Secondly, the reason why Suzuki has had no 250 team isnt due to the bike and its development, its due to the fact of money. Suzuki hasnt allocated money to a 250 team for their own reasons. Definitely not because the bike isnt worth developing or because its not competitive.

To say that Suzuki is not up too par to have the caliber of an Alex Martin ride it, is just crazy!!! You seriously need help my man. Did you not see Justin Hill win on this bike just a few months back? Justin said himself the bike is plenty capable and feels better in a lot of areas than the Pc bike he came off of the year earlier.

While we are on this subject please explain to me where they have made their bikes so much better? Please explain this development that you are going on about? All this develpoment and all these bikes can still barely outmatch the stock cornering abilites of the mighty Zook. All I hear is about hp talk, nobody talks about how the bikes reliability is or how they handle. Any one of these brands can make as much horsepower as the next. If you think otherwise you are living underneath a rock. Generating power is the easy part, its applying it to the chassis and ability to get that power to the ground while zapping in and around corners, thats the difficult part. Suzuki knows its been ahead of the game a long time. You dont need to fix what isnt broken. For a bike you are so down about, its won many championships over the years.
When did it win its last championship? 10 years ago?

It's been slow for a few years, it cannot make the horsepower of the others in its class. The engine design itself will not enable the same efficiency as the Yamaha, KTM, Husky etc. Next years bike may be different, nobody knows yet. But in its current form it is behind the rest of the field in stock form, and behind the rest of the factory's in full race garb also.

It does steer like a beast though, so you got something right.
make1go
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8/26/2018 10:07pm
Some of you guys are hilariously funny!!! Yes the factory Suzuki is on par with any other factory bike. If you think otherwise you clearly have...
Some of you guys are hilariously funny!!! Yes the factory Suzuki is on par with any other factory bike. If you think otherwise you clearly have no clue. Secondly, the reason why Suzuki has had no 250 team isnt due to the bike and its development, its due to the fact of money. Suzuki hasnt allocated money to a 250 team for their own reasons. Definitely not because the bike isnt worth developing or because its not competitive.

To say that Suzuki is not up too par to have the caliber of an Alex Martin ride it, is just crazy!!! You seriously need help my man. Did you not see Justin Hill win on this bike just a few months back? Justin said himself the bike is plenty capable and feels better in a lot of areas than the Pc bike he came off of the year earlier.

While we are on this subject please explain to me where they have made their bikes so much better? Please explain this development that you are going on about? All this develpoment and all these bikes can still barely outmatch the stock cornering abilites of the mighty Zook. All I hear is about hp talk, nobody talks about how the bikes reliability is or how they handle. Any one of these brands can make as much horsepower as the next. If you think otherwise you are living underneath a rock. Generating power is the easy part, its applying it to the chassis and ability to get that power to the ground while zapping in and around corners, thats the difficult part. Suzuki knows its been ahead of the game a long time. You dont need to fix what isnt broken. For a bike you are so down about, its won many championships over the years.
thats some serious product purchase defending,

heres a coupla options:
seek help
or
dont concern yourself with the overriding concensous that the suzuki is NOT as good as the other bikes.

Now listen here, yes it can be made competitive.......abeit with a ton of money thrown at it..

go cry some mighty yellow tears
that will help you turn this problem around..Wink
Mit12
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8/27/2018 12:49am
I would imagine that JGR can build plenty of power with all their NASCAR engine experience. The new Suzuki along with a full year of testing they should be just fine power wise.
Phillip_Lamb
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8/27/2018 2:44pm
the only time the jgr bikes finished high was in SX. the longer straights and deeper dirt make it hard to climb that top 10 ladder. you saw the geico guys get consistent top 3's the last few races after spilling that they found a new engine package.

whenever they have gotten away from any real program aimed at being the top winner they have let their bikes go in terms of engine development. Their engines have always had budget clutches and gearboxes.

THE ONLY THING they get right is frame geometry. when the rmz/kxf split you can see what they cared more about, kawi built the strongest engine for years while suzuki went to their frame.
8/27/2018 4:28pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2018 4:40pm
A stock 250f would not make the same hp as an early factory 250f thats just retarded. Ppl seems to have forgotten about the hp war back in the day and for example although a ktm 250 2stroke today have way more bottom and mid hp than the Ones from the early 2000's had (around 4-5hp more bottom/mid) the early ones had around 2.5hp more at the top. And back then ppl didnt understand as well that chassis is even more important than peak hp so all their efforts went into the engines.

For example the fastest (enginewise) 450 i've ever rode was my old 2005 crf, it was waaay more violent than my old 2014 ktm 450 , 2012 ysf 450 or my friends 2018 crf 450. And even a 2001 426 i believe would probably make more peak hp than a 2011 yzf 450 even tho the curve would be completly different on the newer bike. Fuck i remember seing bartolini winning the 500gp in Västerås sweden 97 or 98 on a yzm400 and beating smets 600, efreim and hanssons 500 2 strokes etc and that was probably the first 4 stroke that made the same hp as the bigger bikes but with a lighter and more nimble chassi
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ns503
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8/27/2018 4:32pm
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do...
People are forgetting that James stew waxed all the fastest factory bikes on a 125. And when people said only in super cross he can’t do it outdoors and he did it t again. Tho there’s a disadvantage off the start no way a bikes horsepower is going to slow you down thru some whoops. Just saying... is the Suzuki deal done with A’mart?.
He didn't make out so great running the 250 2T against all the other 450 4Ts that one year...
ML512
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8/27/2018 4:33pm
A stock 250f would not make the same hp as an early factory 250f thats just retarded. Ppl seems to have forgotten about the hp war...
A stock 250f would not make the same hp as an early factory 250f thats just retarded. Ppl seems to have forgotten about the hp war back in the day and for example although a ktm 250 2stroke today have way more bottom and mid hp than the Ones from the early 2000's had (around 4-5hp more bottom/mid) the early ones had around 2.5hp more at the top. And back then ppl didnt understand as well that chassis is even more important than peak hp so all their efforts went into the engines.

For example the fastest (enginewise) 450 i've ever rode was my old 2005 crf, it was waaay more violent than my old 2014 ktm 450 , 2012 ysf 450 or my friends 2018 crf 450. And even a 2001 426 i believe would probably make more peak hp than a 2011 yzf 450 even tho the curve would be completly different on the newer bike. Fuck i remember seing bartolini winning the 500gp in Västerås sweden 97 or 98 on a yzm400 and beating smets 600, efreim and hanssons 500 2 strokes etc and that was probably the first 4 stroke that made the same hp as the bigger bikes but with a lighter and more nimble chassi
Straight from Ian Harrison’s mouth that a current KTM 250 SX-F is making about the same HP as their early factory RM-Z250s and the current spread was even better.
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mattyhamz2
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8/27/2018 4:36pm
A stock 250f would not make the same hp as an early factory 250f thats just retarded. Ppl seems to have forgotten about the hp war...
A stock 250f would not make the same hp as an early factory 250f thats just retarded. Ppl seems to have forgotten about the hp war back in the day and for example although a ktm 250 2stroke today have way more bottom and mid hp than the Ones from the early 2000's had (around 4-5hp more bottom/mid) the early ones had around 2.5hp more at the top. And back then ppl didnt understand as well that chassis is even more important than peak hp so all their efforts went into the engines.

For example the fastest (enginewise) 450 i've ever rode was my old 2005 crf, it was waaay more violent than my old 2014 ktm 450 , 2012 ysf 450 or my friends 2018 crf 450. And even a 2001 426 i believe would probably make more peak hp than a 2011 yzf 450 even tho the curve would be completly different on the newer bike. Fuck i remember seing bartolini winning the 500gp in Västerås sweden 97 or 98 on a yzm400 and beating smets 600, efreim and hanssons 500 2 strokes etc and that was probably the first 4 stroke that made the same hp as the bigger bikes but with a lighter and more nimble chassi
ML512 wrote:
Straight from Ian Harrison’s mouth that a current KTM 250 SX-F is making about the same HP as their early factory RM-Z250s and the current spread...
Straight from Ian Harrison’s mouth that a current KTM 250 SX-F is making about the same HP as their early factory RM-Z250s and the current spread was even better.
Didn't MXA or one of the other mags build an RMZ250 and they were bragging about it being 36HP
Mace-x
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8/27/2018 4:47pm
So, will A-mart race for JGR or not?

I mean, too much talk about the bike but reed did well on the big yellow turd, i dont think that it´s too much of a difference with the 250f chassis/handling wise.

but on the ktm Amart didnt looked comfortable, swapping from side to side, so hopefully the suzuki magic will do wonders for him!
jbrown15
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8/27/2018 5:07pm
Mace-x wrote:
So, will A-mart race for JGR or not? I mean, too much talk about the bike but reed did well on the big yellow turd, i...
So, will A-mart race for JGR or not?

I mean, too much talk about the bike but reed did well on the big yellow turd, i dont think that it´s too much of a difference with the 250f chassis/handling wise.

but on the ktm Amart didnt looked comfortable, swapping from side to side, so hopefully the suzuki magic will do wonders for him!
He’s already signed with JGR for 2019.

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