Alex Martin JGR 2019?

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6/27/2018 9:30 PM

I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He said that he thinks A-Mart is going to JGR Suzuki for next year. If he does how do you guys think he'll do? Hopefully Suzuki comes out with a new 250, cause hes going to go from one of the fastest 250fs to one that isnt quite on par with the competition.

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6/28/2018 12:19 AM

mxjon454 wrote:

I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He ...more

We dont know what the 2019 rmz250 will be like yet

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6/28/2018 12:34 AM

Can't see TLD letting him go. Right now he is their best MX rider, and tbh I really hope he doesn't move onto that slow turd.

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6/28/2018 2:11 AM

mxjon454 wrote:

I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He ...more

DTR830 wrote:

We dont know what the 2019 rmz250 will be like yet

According to ML, new chassis and bodywork but same engine

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6/28/2018 2:14 AM

mxjon454 wrote:

I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He ...more

DTR830 wrote:

We dont know what the 2019 rmz250 will be like yet

Ray_MXS wrote:

According to ML, new chassis and bodywork but same engine

How he feck does Suzuki think that’s the winning strategy.

It didn’t work in the big bike class where the motor doesn’t matter as much. In fact, most people would argue all they needed to do was update the engine and lose 10 pounds.

Geniuses.

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Cheers, Crush
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6/28/2018 2:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2018 2:41 AM

mxjon454 wrote:

I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He ...more

DTR830 wrote:

We dont know what the 2019 rmz250 will be like yet

Ray_MXS wrote:

According to ML, new chassis and bodywork but same engine

That makes sense, they did the same with the 450.

The problem for Suzuki is that they are able to get away with it with the 450. But not the 250. An updated chassi wont do anything for the RMZ 250.

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- Yamaha YZ450F 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel

6/28/2018 3:01 AM

Motofinne wrote:

That makes sense, they did the same with the 450.

The problem for Suzuki is that they are able to get away with it with the ...more

Yup. Its like Suzuki doesn't care anymore and hope that the teams will rebuild their bikes to be competitive. They could do that in the past but now the platform is so incredibly far behind that it just isn't possible anymore.

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6/28/2018 5:18 AM

Honestly the chassis fine I don’t know why they don’t do something to the motor...

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6/28/2018 5:48 AM

Would love to see someone ride one that actually wants to ride one. If that A-Mart who knows but I’d for one would love to see it.

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6/28/2018 6:14 AM

Kyle_McNab wrote:

Honestly the chassis fine I don’t know why they don’t do something to the motor...

Turns fine, sure, but they need to make the chassis lighter as well.

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6/28/2018 6:22 AM

It's almost like they need to do a joint venture with someone like Kawasaki for a 250 bike. blink silly blink

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6/28/2018 6:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2018 7:24 AM

Kyle_McNab wrote:

Honestly the chassis fine I don’t know why they don’t do something to the motor...

Ray_MXS wrote:

Turns fine, sure, but they need to make the chassis lighter as well.

How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and 18 450.

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- Yamaha YZ450F 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel

6/28/2018 6:25 AM

Do you guys realize that the factory riders don't get stock bikes? I am sure Alex would ride the bike before signing a contract, or at least hop on Vital for some advice.

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6/28/2018 6:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2018 7:25 AM

Motofinne wrote:

How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and ...more

Not enough

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6/28/2018 7:19 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Turns fine, sure, but they need to make the chassis lighter as well.

Motofinne wrote:

How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and ...more

Ray_MXS wrote:

Not enough

Electric start?

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

6/28/2018 7:24 AM

mx317 wrote:

Electric start?

My bad, got my bikes mixed up. I blame heatstroke silly

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6/28/2018 7:29 AM

Motofinne wrote:

How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and ...more

The 2017 and 2018 RMZ450 models both have a curb weight of 247lbs, although the dry weight of the ‘18 is half a pound lighter than the ‘17 even with a slightly increased fuel capacity. The ‘18 frame is essentially the same weight as the ‘17 and the new swingarm is only 0.25lbs lighter.

For perspective, both the YZ450F and CRF450R have lighter curb weight even with larger gas tanks and electric start (and in the case of the Honda a very heavy stock battery). The KX450F is 8lbs lighter (curb weight) and the Husky is 12 lbs lighter on the curb and almost 14 lbs lighter dry. The curb weight of the 450SX-F is a full 15lbs lighter than the RMZ450.

In addition all of these bikes make more horsepower than the Suzuki, have better brakes, better clutches and a better stock suspension.

Not looking good for the 2019 RMZ250.......

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6/28/2018 7:42 AM

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6/28/2018 8:37 PM

DoubleA wrote:

Can't see TLD letting him go. Right now he is their best MX rider, and tbh I really hope he doesn't move onto that slow turd.

Thats what i was thinking too, but his supercross results haven't been that good. I hope thats not the determining factor but i dont want to see him go from that KTM to the Suzuki. I dont really see TLD letting him go, but if Matthes said it theres probably some merit to it.

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6/28/2018 10:41 PM

Ray_MXS wrote:

According to ML, new chassis and bodywork but same engine

Motofinne wrote:

That makes sense, they did the same with the 450.

The problem for Suzuki is that they are able to get away with it with the ...more

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yup. Its like Suzuki doesn't care anymore and hope that the teams will rebuild their bikes to be competitive. They could do ...more

Please explain "far behind"

There are a ton of knowitalls in here...it amazes me that you guys dont engineer bikes yourselves

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6/28/2018 10:44 PM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Turns fine, sure, but they need to make the chassis lighter as well.

Motofinne wrote:

How much lighter is the 18 450 compared to the 17 450?

Edit: Suzukis website says curb weight 112kg(247lbs) for both 17 and ...more

TymeMoto wrote:

The 2017 and 2018 RMZ450 models both have a curb weight of 247lbs, although the dry weight of the ‘18 is half a pound lighter ...more

Explain better brakes?
How is the clutch better?
And last time I checked nobody rides stick suspension.

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6/28/2018 10:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2018 10:54 PM

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

Please explain "far behind"

There are a ton of knowitalls in here...it amazes me that you guys dont engineer bikes ...more

Are you seriously proposing that the Suzuki bikes isnt far behind in development compared to the other manufacturers? JGR does alot to improve the 450 and I´m sure its capable of winning races, but there´s not denying that in stock trim its way behind the rest.

The major discussion here though is the 250 and if you think that bike isnt extremely far behind, you can just look at results - or the lack of Suzukis on the track for the last couple of years.

Sure, this might not matter for 95% of all motocross riders out there but at top level, they are behind.

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6/28/2018 10:56 PM

mxjon454 wrote:

I searched the forum and didnt see anything on this. But have you guys read Steve Matthes Observations on racerx today? He ...more

Since there are so many people on here that know so much about bikes, please explain to me the difference in power numbers from one factory bike to another. Show me the gear ratios all the way down to the way factories cut their transmissions. A lot of guys on these forums really know jack about what goes into a factory bike. You think these riders are riding a bike from a crate that you can buy from a dealer? Not too mention the new Suzuki is a damn good bike out of the crate. So not sure why so many of you bench racers like to discuss issues with a bike you have never ridden yourself. Lets not base our thoughts off of a shootout that already have bias going into riding/testing these bikes.

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6/28/2018 10:58 PM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yup. Its like Suzuki doesn't care anymore and hope that the teams will rebuild their bikes to be competitive. They could do ...more

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

Please explain "far behind"

There are a ton of knowitalls in here...it amazes me that you guys dont engineer bikes ...more

Ray_MXS wrote:

Are you seriously proposing that the Suzuki bikes isnt far behind in development compared to the other manufacturers? JGR does ...more

So please explain your theory? How is it far behind?in what way, and what personal experience can you share with us to enlighten me on the bike. I love to hear your thoughts?

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6/28/2018 11:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2018 11:13 PM

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

So please explain your theory? How is it far behind?in what way, and what personal experience can you share with us to ...more

Yes, I have ridden multiple different 250fs, and Suzukis are at the back of the back. It feels old and underpowered. I´m not an expert on the how´s and why´s but I suggest you go read some 250 shootouts. You can start right here at VitalMX, they know their stuff. And if you ride different brands of 250fs back to back - you´ll notice the differences.

Do you really think there is no logical explanation to why there arent any Suzukis in the 250 class? If you take both US racing and MXGP, there is only the JGR team that runs the 250fs, and thats only because they have a contract with Suzuki to do so.

It is - bottom line - a worse platform to start out from, that pretty common knowledge. I´m honestly very impressed with how far JGR has managed to push it as it is. Just look on the lack of updates to the bike the last couple of years when you compare it to all the development and improvements the other manufacturers are putting in to their bike.

I´m well aware that I can never change your mind, since you seem very upset about it, so I´ll leave it here.

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6/28/2018 11:12 PM

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

So please explain your theory? How is it far behind?in what way, and what personal experience can you share with us to ...more

Not an argument you're going to win mate. The RMZ250 is the slowest engine in the class, its pretty much a fact. Nicoletti said last year that even the JGR bike was slow. All you have to do is look at some of the parts they were running, they had Stroupe's initials stamped on them apparently, that's how far behind the rest of the class they are developmentally.

When was the last Suzuki 250 class holeshot? They've had some good starters on that bike, Nicoletti, Decotis, Hill have all pulled good starts on other bikes and in other classes, the engine is slow. The chassis is great but the engine isn't great on a pro level.

I say this not from personal experience but from as close to a credible source as you can get in this industry.

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6/29/2018 1:43 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Are you seriously proposing that the Suzuki bikes isnt far behind in development compared to the other manufacturers? JGR does ...more

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

So please explain your theory? How is it far behind?in what way, and what personal experience can you share with us to ...more

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yes, I have ridden multiple different 250fs, and Suzukis are at the back of the back. It feels old and underpowered. Im not an ...more

Seewer was winning last year on a "pos" Suzuki though. He was close to grabbing the title against a overpowered KTM. Everyone praises Suzuki for their turning ability. Isn't time won in corners? I'd say that's a pretty good platform to start from. Gaining power is easier than gaining better handling.

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6/29/2018 1:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/29/2018 2:04 AM

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

So please explain your theory? How is it far behind?in what way, and what personal experience can you share with us to ...more

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yes, I have ridden multiple different 250fs, and Suzukis are at the back of the back. It feels old and underpowered. Im not an ...more

EnvyMedia wrote:

Seewer was winning last year on a "pos" Suzuki though. He was close to grabbing the title against a overpowered KTM. Everyone ...more

Ask Bas Vaessen and Hunter Lawrence if their bikes were fast enough last year and what they thought about them.

Wern't there rumors about Seewers bike being heavily modified(to the degree that it wouldn't be legal in US racing)?

Read this interview with Seewer. He turned down a deal with JGR because he didn't want to ride the RMZ 250.
https://mxvice.com/73085/viewpoint-jeremy-seewer-2

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- Yamaha YZ450F 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel

6/29/2018 2:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/29/2018 2:24 AM

Motofinne wrote:

Ask Bas Vaessen and Hunter Lawrence if their bikes were fast enough last year and what they thought about them.

Wern't there ...more

Anybody not performing to their expectations say their bikes are crap. They both aren't doing much better now either. Oh right everyone says those Honda's are slow too. Does that make it just as bad as the Suzuki? Do you think Seewer would've won the title would he not have raced the Suzuki?

And how the hell did Lawrence do so well at the MXdN if his bike is that bad?

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6/29/2018 2:27 AM

EnvyMedia wrote:

Seewer was winning last year on a "pos" Suzuki though. He was close to grabbing the title against a overpowered KTM. Everyone ...more

Motofinne wrote:

Ask Bas Vaessen and Hunter Lawrence if their bikes were fast enough last year and what they thought about them.

Wern't there ...more

EnvyMedia wrote:

Anybody not performing to their expectations say their bikes are crap. They both aren't doing much better now either. Oh right ...more

Okay, the RMZ250 is a rocketship.

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- Yamaha YZ450F 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel