Alessi 2 stroke mec

Yz229
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9/3/2019 11:14am
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low to make power up top with that large top end.
Looby321
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9/3/2019 1:37pm
Carlen Gardner Yamaha YZ ESR 325 in the Lead at the 2-Stroke Worlds. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/09/02/370465/s1200_2_Stroke_1_2_2019_04_30.jpg[/img] #805
Carlen Gardner Yamaha YZ ESR 325 in the Lead at the 2-Stroke Worlds.

#805
This dude better be racing supercross again this year, he’s fun to watch.
9/3/2019 1:52pm
Yz229 wrote:
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low...
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low to make power up top with that large top end.
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?

Any thoughts?

2
2

The Shop

JBernard_401
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Boulder, CO US
9/3/2019 2:16pm
Yz229 wrote:
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low...
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low to make power up top with that large top end.
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that? Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission...
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?

Any thoughts?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?


What.
2
Yz229
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9/3/2019 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2019 3:34pm
Yz229 wrote:
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low...
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low to make power up top with that large top end.
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that? Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission...
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?

Any thoughts?

Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume.

Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a YZ125. Might run and idle, but the 125 bottom end displacement is designed to flow enough for a 125cc. A 325 would choke it off massively.

Lesser extreme, on a YZ250. The bottom end is still only designed to flow enough for 250cc worth of airflow. 325cc would need extensive modification.

As for ceramic bearings. You wouldn't use them in a RT180 to make it fast. That's something you do when you already have a fast engine, lots of money (factory teams) and you're trying to get every little iota of internal friction out of engine for that last .25%
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9/3/2019 3:27pm
Correcting my comment. Yes they use Porting and High Compression Pistons for increased RPM, but bearings maybe to enhance the speed of throttle response and increase HP.

MXA Ceramic Bearing Article comment:

As far as motocross use goes, some factory and privateer teams do use ceramic ball bearings. As a rule they use them in places where the light, ultra-smooth and perfectly round balls make it easier for the bearing to acceleration. The light and smooth balls spin without hesitation and drag. By reducing bearing drag you create horsepower. A ceramic bearing here and there, like on the crank, won’t make much of difference. But, the cumulative effect of ceramic bearings on every turning spindle, axle and shaft in the drive train, as well as in the wheels, can make a noticeable difference. Used in unison they could reduce friction by one to two percent—which may not sound like much, but could equal a half horsepower gain on a 250 four-stroke. That is an easy horsepower gain.

It is however not a cheap horsepower gain because ceramic bearings cost three times more than the most expensive steel bearings. For example a steel crank bearing will cost $20, while a ceramic bearing will run $85. For a factory team the cost of ceramic would spread across four race bikes and eight engines (at least). And since those race bikes are typically torn down every two hours, the cost could run to several thousand dollars in a 29-race season.
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ATKpilot99
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9/3/2019 6:28pm
Yz229 wrote:
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low...
Pretty cool to see, but I am doubting these are stock bottom end YZ250's at 2 stroke worlds and MEC. Crankcase volume is way too low to make power up top with that large top end.
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that? Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission...
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?

Any thoughts?

Yz229 wrote:
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume. Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a...
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume.

Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a YZ125. Might run and idle, but the 125 bottom end displacement is designed to flow enough for a 125cc. A 325 would choke it off massively.

Lesser extreme, on a YZ250. The bottom end is still only designed to flow enough for 250cc worth of airflow. 325cc would need extensive modification.

As for ceramic bearings. You wouldn't use them in a RT180 to make it fast. That's something you do when you already have a fast engine, lots of money (factory teams) and you're trying to get every little iota of internal friction out of engine for that last .25%
Didn't the KTM 360/380 use the same cases as the 250 ?
SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX US
9/3/2019 6:32pm
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that? Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission...
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?

Any thoughts?

Yz229 wrote:
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume. Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a...
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume.

Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a YZ125. Might run and idle, but the 125 bottom end displacement is designed to flow enough for a 125cc. A 325 would choke it off massively.

Lesser extreme, on a YZ250. The bottom end is still only designed to flow enough for 250cc worth of airflow. 325cc would need extensive modification.

As for ceramic bearings. You wouldn't use them in a RT180 to make it fast. That's something you do when you already have a fast engine, lots of money (factory teams) and you're trying to get every little iota of internal friction out of engine for that last .25%
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Didn't the KTM 360/380 use the same cases as the 250 ?
I just don't see how you charge the cylinder.

Help a brother out!
Yz229
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9/3/2019 6:54pm
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that? Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission...
I wouldn't know how to judge Crankcase Volume, how do you Calculate that?

Maybe they use a complete set of Ceramic Ball Bearings in the Transmission to Facilitate High RPM?

Any thoughts?

Yz229 wrote:
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume. Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a...
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume.

Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a YZ125. Might run and idle, but the 125 bottom end displacement is designed to flow enough for a 125cc. A 325 would choke it off massively.

Lesser extreme, on a YZ250. The bottom end is still only designed to flow enough for 250cc worth of airflow. 325cc would need extensive modification.

As for ceramic bearings. You wouldn't use them in a RT180 to make it fast. That's something you do when you already have a fast engine, lots of money (factory teams) and you're trying to get every little iota of internal friction out of engine for that last .25%
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Didn't the KTM 360/380 use the same cases as the 250 ?
Pretty close, but 380 had longer stroke. My Dad had one, was a great low-mid bike!
JAFO92
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9/3/2019 7:39pm
Measuring case volume is simple with a burette, no different than doing runners or chambers in heads when CC matching. Thats race engines 101 stuff.
2
JAFO92
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9/3/2019 7:45pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2019 7:49pm
Yz229 wrote:
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume. Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a...
Any reputable engine builder can measure and tailor crankcase volume.

Think of it this way. If you could somehow put a ESR 325 cylinder on a YZ125. Might run and idle, but the 125 bottom end displacement is designed to flow enough for a 125cc. A 325 would choke it off massively.

Lesser extreme, on a YZ250. The bottom end is still only designed to flow enough for 250cc worth of airflow. 325cc would need extensive modification.

As for ceramic bearings. You wouldn't use them in a RT180 to make it fast. That's something you do when you already have a fast engine, lots of money (factory teams) and you're trying to get every little iota of internal friction out of engine for that last .25%
Measure, yes. "Tailor crankcase volume",, would love to see where you can take off enough material to add appreciable CCs in a typical dirt bike case.

If the case was indeed too small, you might end up with a scenario where torque is increased, similar to running small runner on an intake and increasing fuel charge speed like a venturi. Because the swept volume will be much more with new piston size. Would be interesting to see what the flow bench and dyno would say on that point. But no doubt a case engineered for stoichiometric combustion for 250ccs will not be large enough for 325.
trexx
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Central Coast, CA US
9/3/2019 8:46pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2019 8:48pm
UGOTBIT wrote:
Tony ESR 325 guy just took his shirt off
Yes he did, PRETTY EXCITING! Alessi will be on this Kit..........a New Cylinder called "Capturing Efficiency Optimized" (CEO) 325 Kit that place 2nd. at the World...
Yes he did, PRETTY EXCITING!

Alessi will be on this Kit..........a New Cylinder called "Capturing Efficiency Optimized" (CEO) 325 Kit that place 2nd. at the World 2-Stroke Championships! All of ESR Kits have a slight delay for Traction Response, and this new Kit is supposed to have a Lot Broader Power Band than the one I have, which is way better than a 250.


Check out the Video, he stayed ahead of a 500cc

https://youtu.be/Mm1HnL1hHiQ

Number 141 (Athena Kit 300cc Big Bore) went 2, 1 to finish 1st, and Number 805 (ESR 325 Big Bore Kit) went 1, 2 to finish 2nd. They diced it out for the lead and beat the 500cc Kawi.


A 450 (235 lbs Dry - Est.) will still have a Broader Torque Band, but the ESR 325 (212 lbs Dry Est.) will be about 23 LBS. LIGHTER, so that will help tremendously in the Turns!

Alessi is a great MXer, but not at his PEAK any long. So he will be doing good to make the Top 5-10 positions overall!

That would be considered a GREAT SUCCESS for Eddie Sander Racing (ESR), who by the way has been in BUSINESS for about 25 Years!



1
2
Tryhard
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9/5/2019 6:01am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2019 6:04am
Correcting my comment. Yes they use Porting and High Compression Pistons for increased RPM, but bearings maybe to enhance the speed of throttle response and increase...
Correcting my comment. Yes they use Porting and High Compression Pistons for increased RPM, but bearings maybe to enhance the speed of throttle response and increase HP.

MXA Ceramic Bearing Article comment:

As far as motocross use goes, some factory and privateer teams do use ceramic ball bearings. As a rule they use them in places where the light, ultra-smooth and perfectly round balls make it easier for the bearing to acceleration. The light and smooth balls spin without hesitation and drag. By reducing bearing drag you create horsepower. A ceramic bearing here and there, like on the crank, won’t make much of difference. But, the cumulative effect of ceramic bearings on every turning spindle, axle and shaft in the drive train, as well as in the wheels, can make a noticeable difference. Used in unison they could reduce friction by one to two percent—which may not sound like much, but could equal a half horsepower gain on a 250 four-stroke. That is an easy horsepower gain.

It is however not a cheap horsepower gain because ceramic bearings cost three times more than the most expensive steel bearings. For example a steel crank bearing will cost $20, while a ceramic bearing will run $85. For a factory team the cost of ceramic would spread across four race bikes and eight engines (at least). And since those race bikes are typically torn down every two hours, the cost could run to several thousand dollars in a 29-race season.
Look , the ceramic ball bearings have nothing to do with how much crankcase volume is there .

Bearings are not even related anyway to what the guy was talking about

While maybe the case infact in no shape or form mathematically be tailored to accommodate the crankcase volume needed for a 325cc kit . While maybe ireelvent to the fact , but when someone mentioned crank case volume , you start spewing out some stuff about ceramic bearings yadda yadda. That is also irrelevant to anything to do with crankcase volume .

Try again dude ...

1
Sierra Ranger
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9/8/2019 9:48pm
UGOTBIT wrote:
Tony ESR 325 guy just took his shirt off
Yes he did, PRETTY EXCITING! Alessi will be on this Kit..........a New Cylinder called "Capturing Efficiency Optimized" (CEO) 325 Kit that place 2nd. at the World...
Yes he did, PRETTY EXCITING!

Alessi will be on this Kit..........a New Cylinder called "Capturing Efficiency Optimized" (CEO) 325 Kit that place 2nd. at the World 2-Stroke Championships! All of ESR Kits have a slight delay for Traction Response, and this new Kit is supposed to have a Lot Broader Power Band than the one I have, which is way better than a 250.


Check out the Video, he stayed ahead of a 500cc

https://youtu.be/Mm1HnL1hHiQ

Number 141 (Athena Kit 300cc Big Bore) went 2, 1 to finish 1st, and Number 805 (ESR 325 Big Bore Kit) went 1, 2 to finish 2nd. They diced it out for the lead and beat the 500cc Kawi.


A 450 (235 lbs Dry - Est.) will still have a Broader Torque Band, but the ESR 325 (212 lbs Dry Est.) will be about 23 LBS. LIGHTER, so that will help tremendously in the Turns!

Alessi is a great MXer, but not at his PEAK any long. So he will be doing good to make the Top 5-10 positions overall!

That would be considered a GREAT SUCCESS for Eddie Sander Racing (ESR), who by the way has been in BUSINESS for about 25 Years!



What a sweet vid! That track is pretty insane.
I kept seeing some odd choices regarding things being close to the track. Like I am surprised to see this little gem in this day and age at a pro track.


1
CivBars
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9/24/2019 12:37pm
Since MEC numbering system isn't aligned with SX, will he run 800 or his earned 76?
9/27/2019 3:00pm
JAFO92 wrote:
Measure, yes. "Tailor crankcase volume",, would love to see where you can take off enough material to add appreciable CCs in a typical dirt bike case...
Measure, yes. "Tailor crankcase volume",, would love to see where you can take off enough material to add appreciable CCs in a typical dirt bike case.

If the case was indeed too small, you might end up with a scenario where torque is increased, similar to running small runner on an intake and increasing fuel charge speed like a venturi. Because the swept volume will be much more with new piston size. Would be interesting to see what the flow bench and dyno would say on that point. But no doubt a case engineered for stoichiometric combustion for 250ccs will not be large enough for 325.
can you explain the ohlins 360 kit?

seventeen
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Port Saint Lucie, FL US
10/6/2019 5:28pm
Moto167 wrote:
Would you give it up already? We get it you don’t like the MEC. Funny you don’t want to support it but every time you comment...
Would you give it up already? We get it you don’t like the MEC. Funny you don’t want to support it but every time you comment on a MEC thread you’re bumping it to the top of the page. Thus getting the thread more views and publicity. Good job!!
Well, you're wrong. I think it's an awesome race and and great concept. But when racers start picking that over the mxon (and this is a...
Well, you're wrong. I think it's an awesome race and and great concept. But when racers start picking that over the mxon (and this is a select few of riders), then I don't like that. And I think the promoters know good and well what's going on so I won't support the race.
GrapeApe wrote:
Just so I'm clear, you think the Monster Energy Cup is intentionally sabotaging the Monster Energy MXdN?
Lol...
Press516
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10/8/2019 2:14pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Ready to go for Monster Cup. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/05/378102/s1200_70041528_124197968982458_2272635701721500905_n.jpg[/img]
Ready to go for Monster Cup.

I hope he's practicing his ass off.... Would love to see him get out quick, we all know he has that skill....
mxjon454
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Menifee, CA US
10/8/2019 9:24pm
All this to probably not even qualify. Got the vital guys hyped so that’s good lol
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15
Excaliburbmx
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10/8/2019 9:45pm
mxjon454 wrote:
All this to probably not even qualify. Got the vital guys hyped so that’s good lol
A smoker in the field is better than no smoker we will take it.
1
10/9/2019 2:24am
Come on guys, it's all ball bearings nowadays. Maybe you need a refresher course.
4
kawasa84
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Flower Mound, TX US
10/9/2019 3:15am
Come on guys, it's all ball bearings nowadays. Maybe you need a refresher course.
If Mike can keep his "bearings" on the start gate like the days of lore, and then has the "balls" to keep the throttle on, he'll do just fine.
3
AJ565
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San Antonio, TX US
10/9/2019 6:18am
Come on guys, it's all ball bearings nowadays. Maybe you need a refresher course.
That Fetzer valve has been prepped with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads.
1
10/9/2019 7:04am
Come on guys, it's all ball bearings nowadays. Maybe you need a refresher course.
AJ565 wrote:
That Fetzer valve has been prepped with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads.
I'm gonna need about 10 quarts of antifreeze, preferably Prestone. No, no, make that Quaker State.
1
resetjet
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Tampa, FL US
10/10/2019 2:41pm
USA wrote:
Has Alessi ever raced a 2 stroke professionally?
Ranman68 wrote:
Didn't he race a GP at Matterly Basin not too long ago on a two stroke? He didn't do well at all of course. I never...
Didn't he race a GP at Matterly Basin not too long ago on a two stroke? He didn't do well at all of course. I never understood the logic in that.
The track for the MEC is hard pack. Four strokes hook up way better and are way more stable on that surface. I think racing the MEC on a two stroke is a mistake for anyone. I have nothing against Alessi and I applaud him doing something different, but I don't think it's gonna pan out at all as far as results go. That's my guess.
Exactly. Its romantic but a 2 stroke vs factory bikes is no contest. Holeshot king on a bike that has. O chance of a holeshot.
4
Natester551v
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St. George, UT US
10/10/2019 2:54pm
Come on guys, it's all ball bearings nowadays. Maybe you need a refresher course.
AJ565 wrote:
That Fetzer valve has been prepped with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads.
I'm gonna need about 10 quarts of antifreeze, preferably Prestone. No, no, make that Quaker State.
There is a tremendous build up of gook all over these windows!!!
KYFHO699
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MT US
10/10/2019 3:00pm
Glad for Alessi, but in no way do I support a race that offers a million dollars so that racer's will sell out their country and...
Glad for Alessi, but in no way do I support a race that offers a million dollars so that racer's will sell out their country and not race the mxon.
I think that's the most down votes I have ever seen!
1

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