Aldon's starving champions vs natural ability

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7/22/2017 2:34 AM

Been a bit of talk about how thin and wasted Aldon's riders are and if it's really necessary..
I seem to remember something about Jeff Stanton at his peak, losing heaps of weight and going vegetarian or something and how that backfired...please correct me if I'm wrong.
But this young guy..Cody Dyce..is setting the MXD class alight in the oz mx nationals.. Watched him at Shepparton .
I thought he looked fat and unfit...especially compared to his wafer thin competition....he spanked all of them in the first Moto ..then went down in the first corner second Moto..got up dead last and climbed to third in a 20 min Moto..
He looked chunky to me...but he also displayed that effortless riding style ala Stephan Everts...
What do y'all think? Is it that necessary to be so thin and wasted to get to the top?
Cody Dyce is for certain a serious talent...if he got out of OZ and headed to the USA immediately rather than wait...pull a Chad Reed and just pack his bags and go...how would he go?
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7/22/2017 3:13 AM

it works for some and some dont.
Im no expert in anyway but to me it looks like marvin would benefit building some muscles. Roczen looked almost as thin as marvin and that was not the way to go trainig and diet wise for him.

On the other hand,look what happened to Osbourne when he started training with Aldon.

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7/22/2017 3:48 AM

When RC was in his best shape on Aldons program, he actually looked pretty good. Lean with some muscle. But he's naturally "tubby". RV and James also didnt look so scrawny on his program. They don't naturally have those skinny long frames. RC used to smoke everyone as a fat little kid also before he got on Aldons program. But getting in awesome shape and dropping the extra fat helped get him to that untouchable level. It may be to much though and lead to burnout. RC RV and RD all got out the sport at 27. Maybe it's because they satisfied their winning hunger, or maybe because they couldn't take anymore of the crazy training to stay on top anymore. Took the fun out of riding and racing.

Anyway, I don't think it's necessary to end up looking a certain way to win. Just a combination of things. That kid is going to lose some weight though, if he starts training to hang with the top level riders in the world for 30 plus 2 twice. IMO

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7/22/2017 4:26 AM

Flip109 wrote:

When RC was in his best shape on Aldons program, he actually looked pretty good. Lean with some muscle. But he's naturally "tubby". RV and James also didnt look so scrawny on his program. They don't naturally have those skinny long frames. RC used to smoke everyone as a fat little kid also before he got on Aldons program. But getting in awesome shape and dropping the extra fat helped get him to that untouchable level. It may be to much though and lead to burnout. RC RV and RD all got out the sport at 27. Maybe it's because they satisfied their winning hunger, or maybe because they couldn't take anymore of the crazy training to stay on top anymore. Took the fun out of riding and racing.

Anyway, I don't think it's necessary to end up looking a certain way to win. Just a combination of things. That kid is going to lose some weight though, if he starts training to hang with the top level riders in the world for 30 plus 2 twice. IMO

This is a well considered reply...

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2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
2019 KTM 85 big wheel

7/22/2017 5:27 AM

They are eating a lot more than you think, just not Krispy Kreme's, Whoppers, Big Macs and Pizza Hut!

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7/22/2017 5:49 AM

You can't train the way you need to at the top level and stay looking pudgy. Michael Phelps has to eat
14,000 calories a day just to maintain his weight. It's a mix of junk food and good food but he needs the
calories to offset the intense training. Talent will get you so far, but if your competition is in way better shape
they'll hunt you down and eat you up late in the moto. As the motos get longer moving up this will be apparent.
TM

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7/22/2017 6:27 AM

fat boy would get smoked if they ran a full 35

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7/22/2017 6:30 AM

wtf does giant stand for, giant meals?

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7/22/2017 6:33 AM

ToolMaker wrote:

You can't train the way you need to at the top level and stay looking pudgy. Michael Phelps has to eat
14,000 calories a day just to maintain his weight. It's a mix of junk food and good food but he needs the
calories to offset the intense training. Talent will get you so far, but if your competition is in way better shape
they'll hunt you down and eat you up late in the moto. As the motos get longer moving up this will be apparent.
TM

Just as a note, Phelps himself said (after he retired) that the comments of him eating 12,000-14,000 calories a day were really exaggerated. During building blocks of training, he was eating around 8,000-9,000 calories though. So not all the time either.

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7/22/2017 6:33 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2017 6:34 AM

is the only time you look at Aldons guys 5 mins after the Motos? thin and wasted? how dilusional can you get?

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7/22/2017 8:07 AM

The rumors of his guys starving is highly exaggerated.

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7/22/2017 8:14 AM

More weight = slower bike. More weight = more energy expenditure to move that weight. More muscle = more oxygen requirement. If you look at elite athletes there bodies are designed exactly for the sports that they do. You don't see a professional road cyclist with massive guns do you?

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7/22/2017 8:17 AM

muscles turn into big blood water baloons

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7/22/2017 10:56 AM

rongi#401 wrote:

muscles turn into big blood water baloons

Weak troll

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7/22/2017 11:15 AM

They aren't winging it over there.

Each guy has his exact caloric needs mapped out and followed. I'm surprised people bring this stuff up as often as they do around here.

The workload it takes to be the best, and having to ride at that elite pace is what burns guys out. Not the eating.

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7/22/2017 5:21 PM

Does anyone really know what they are doing. Counting calories and excluding certain foods?

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7/22/2017 6:24 PM

Barrzy256 wrote:

More weight = slower bike. More weight = more energy expenditure to move that weight. More muscle = more oxygen requirement. If you look at elite athletes there bodies are designed exactly for the sports that they do. You don't see a professional road cyclist with massive guns do you?

I played collegiate rugby here in the US and I was an extremely fit 6-0, 190 lbs ripped with guns. I've never been in better shape in my life. I know you've seen a lot of rugby living in the UK. Rugby is an extremely demanding sport - endurance and strength. I know soccer players are in great shape, but I have never understood the lack of respect for rugby in terms of fitness (endurance training and strength training). I've played soccer and rugby (rugby at a higher level) and rugby was FAR more physically demanding than soccer. Soccer as far as conditioning is over rated in my opinion.

As for MX, it reminds me more of rugby in terms of valuing strength in addition to endurance training - not road racing or long distance runners. You gotta have both - strength and endurance (you wouldn't want to be too muscled up). If you don't have some muscle, the physically demanding tracks are going to beat you to death.

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7/22/2017 9:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2017 9:22 PM

PJRAUS wrote:

Been a bit of talk about how thin and wasted Aldon's riders are and if it's really necessary..
I seem to remember something about Jeff Stanton at his peak, losing heaps of weight and going vegetarian or something and how that backfired...please correct me if I'm wrong.
But this young guy..Cody Dyce..is setting the MXD class alight in the oz mx nationals.. Watched him at Shepparton .
I thought he looked fat and unfit...especially compared to his wafer thin competition....he spanked all of them in the first Moto ..then went down in the first corner second Moto..got up dead last and climbed to third in a 20 min Moto..
He looked chunky to me...but he also displayed that effortless riding style ala Stephan Everts...
What do y'all think? Is it that necessary to be so thin and wasted to get to the top?
Cody Dyce is for certain a serious talent...if he got out of OZ and headed to the USA immediately rather than wait...pull a Chad Reed and just pack his bags and go...how would he go?
Photo


Photo


Photo

Wait... is Cody a girl or boy? Gender neutral name these days. Seriously not a joke, I can't tell if those pics are of a 13yr old boy or a butch, pudgy lesbian with man boobs. The third pic is very feminine looking. I cant make my decision on the OPs original question until I find out

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7/22/2017 9:43 PM

Cody is a boy. I just found the photos from a Google search. I'm not sure how old he is now, but he has to be between 16 and 19 to race in the MXD class.
Also, just to clarify, I'm not calling Aldon's athletes starving and wasted myself....it might seem like I did.
What I mean is that there seems to be a lot of talk about just that, people are saying things like that.

Anyway, Cody Dyce really impressed me. He has a brilliant and effortless looking style...he was waaaay back in the second Moto,after going down in the first turn...he just blew past the others charging back to the front.
Very impressive !

Does anyone remember the bit of controversy around Jeff Stanton back in the day? Got on some sort of diet,lost heaps of weight and muscle....his results went a bit backwards, may have been coincidence..

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2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
2019 KTM 85 big wheel

7/22/2017 9:45 PM

aldons guys i think have a great power to weight ratio, they are specifically built to be lean and useful, I think its a bit to far some times but scientifically he is trying to make each riders body type a moto weapon.

Im not an aldon fan at all, but i see what hes trying todo.

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7/22/2017 9:54 PM

ToolMaker wrote:

You can't train the way you need to at the top level and stay looking pudgy. Michael Phelps has to eat
14,000 calories a day just to maintain his weight. It's a mix of junk food and good food but he needs the
calories to offset the intense training. Talent will get you so far, but if your competition is in way better shape
they'll hunt you down and eat you up late in the moto. As the motos get longer moving up this will be apparent.
TM

Phelps also smokes weed... I know a guy in the 80's that was great on that program

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7/22/2017 9:56 PM

wsc96 wrote:

Does anyone really know what they are doing. Counting calories and excluding certain foods?

Yes

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7/22/2017 9:59 PM

PJRAUS wrote:

Been a bit of talk about how thin and wasted Aldon's riders are and if it's really necessary..
I seem to remember something about Jeff Stanton at his peak, losing heaps of weight and going vegetarian or something and how that backfired...please correct me if I'm wrong.
But this young guy..Cody Dyce..is setting the MXD class alight in the oz mx nationals.. Watched him at Shepparton .
I thought he looked fat and unfit...especially compared to his wafer thin competition....he spanked all of them in the first Moto ..then went down in the first corner second Moto..got up dead last and climbed to third in a 20 min Moto..
He looked chunky to me...but he also displayed that effortless riding style ala Stephan Everts...
What do y'all think? Is it that necessary to be so thin and wasted to get to the top?
Cody Dyce is for certain a serious talent...if he got out of OZ and headed to the USA immediately rather than wait...pull a Chad Reed and just pack his bags and go...how would he go?
Photo


Photo


Photo

generallee121 wrote:

Wait... is Cody a girl or boy? Gender neutral name these days. Seriously not a joke, I can't tell if those pics are of a 13yr old boy or a butch, pudgy lesbian with man boobs. The third pic is very feminine looking. I cant make my decision on the OPs original question until I find out

You are a dick

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7/23/2017 1:08 AM

Stu and Grant Baylor are my offroad idols. DEM BURLY BAYLORS RIP

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7/23/2017 2:00 AM

Please don't compare an Australian MXD riders to Stefan everts.. ever

Nice post tho Cody

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7/23/2017 5:26 AM

I swam in college at a top division 2 school and did some serious mileage during that time. We swam 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon plus weights, monday through friday. Saturday we swam 2 1/2 hours plus weights.

I ate 5 times a day, tons of calories. I'm guessing 8000 - 10000 a day easily. I drank soda, beer, ate everything. I showed up from a less strenuous program at 225 pounds. I increased my work and calories and ended up 210 pounds. I was very fit at the beginning and didn't think I had any extra weight. The extra work found the extra weight and removed it.

I think if you increase your workload, you will lose weight. I'm sure they are getting enough calories. I thought I had been working hard in high school and junior college, swimming and playing water polo. I was wrong and didn't realize it until I went to a more serious program.

I think the program Aldon has developed is similar to what most top elite athletes in other sports do their entire careers. Motocross has always been behind other sports in organized training.

I have been involved in both swimming and motocross. They both require a ton of effort, talent, and dedication.

Swimming has a ton of structure from the beginning of a kids career. Swim coaches have a range of training but the ones at the successful programs have a lot of experience and specialized training.

The American Swim Coaches Association, ASCA, has an annual convention where coaches meet and discuss swimming faster. Technique, training, psychology, all aspects of the sport are discussed by the top, usually Olympic, coaches.

Imagine, all of the top motocross coaches from around the world meeting and discussing the training and development of their athletes. Talking openly about details of their day to day training, all aspects, so everyone could benefit. It happens in swimming. Bob Bowman discusses how he trained Michael Phelps. Bruce Gemmell talks about how he trained Katie Ledecky. Here is a link to what I'm talking about:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://swimmingcoach.org/pdf/wc15/gemmell-prep-ledecky.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwic6s3Asp_VAhVMRyYKHaQ9D9QQFghHMA0&usg=AFQjCNHejeuxz0ygsUx3VaYlDeQbQfuLRA

Motocross usually has very little structure. Basically, you do whatever your Dad tells you to do. Don't get get me wrong, I love motocross and think it is the most demanding sport, but we are behind other sports in developing young athletes. I know there has been progress since Carmichael.

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7/23/2017 7:11 AM

generallee121 wrote:

Wait... is Cody a girl or boy? Gender neutral name these days. Seriously not a joke, I can't tell if those pics are of a 13yr old boy or a butch, pudgy lesbian with man boobs. The third pic is very feminine looking. I cant make my decision on the OPs original question until I find out

Don't be a shit. How would you like to come to vital forum as a kid and found someone posted something like that about you. If you can't discern gender any better than that I hate to see your girlfriend.

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7/23/2017 7:43 AM

Every person or athlete is different. Aldons guys are extremely fit and everything they eat or drink is mapped and means something. The other spectrum of that is Tony Cairolli dominating the GPs for the 9th time and he eats pasta a few times a day. Just depends on the person.

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7/23/2017 8:10 AM

The Golden Rod always looked healthy.

You gotta think with all the people who has mentioned this, how often are those people eating fast food, drinking beer and not spending hours a day training. If you aren't involved, why the fuck would you even care. The guy has some recent top riders so the haters can hate.

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7/23/2017 8:23 AM

Starving? Comparing an Oz MXD rider to Pro AMA and MXGP MX racers?

Both are way out there, I am going to go with the assumption that this was a pretty elaborate troll bait cast for deep waters, with that cause, I think it is biting well.

Aldons riders are not starving, never have, and never will. Though they are not going to enjoy a pizza (I imagine) during the season.

The only discussion I can see with merit is, does he push them too hard and burn them out early. Aldon himself has said, he can look at a 15 year career with ok results. Or a shorter, healthy career with multiple championships. Which would a rider rather have. Still Dungey had a 12 year career and the championships speak for themselves. RV and RC as well.

There has to be natural talent, I believe Aldon and other elite trainers are very much like the difference between a privateer bike and a Factory teams bike. Both are very fast and both can win, the factory bike just has a little better stuff on it that makes it handle a little better, or use the HP a little better. The elite trainers, especially Aldon will take that top rider and get just a little more out of them.

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