Air bag protection mandatory in Moto GP. Should SX be next?

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1/18/2018 7:41 AM

So if the powers at Moto GP (I imagine they are just slightly above the circus that runs SX) are making rider air bags mandatory do you think this would work in SX?

Seems it would have saved Marvin and Eli from injury. Might be best for the riders, spectators, ratings etc for the sanctioning body to not give the riders a choice on what protection is needed. It is a business and when the top guys sit at home business will suffer

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1/18/2018 7:50 AM

Pretty sure impact is what sets those bags off. If you case a triple that might set it off when not desired.


It could have to be extensively engineered for sx use

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1/18/2018 8:00 AM

cameron96 wrote:

Pretty sure impact is what sets those bags off. If you case a triple that might set it off when not desired.


It could have to be extensively engineered for sx use

They are minor inflation’s correct...2-3 of cushion? Even if a guy cases a triple and it goes off wouldn’t the air deflate within seconds so the rider could be on his way?

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1/18/2018 8:22 AM

KennyT wrote:

So if the powers at Moto GP (I imagine they are just slightly above the circus that runs SX) are making rider air bags mandatory do you think this would work in SX?

Seems it would have saved Marvin and Eli from injury. Might be best for the riders, spectators, ratings etc for the sanctioning body to not give the riders a choice on what protection is needed. It is a business and when the top guys sit at home business will suffer

The technology isn't ready yet. The crew from Alpinestars told me it took ten years of collecting data from MotoGP, World Superbike, and events all over the world to develop the working prototypes...let alone the years since then getting it ready for actual racing use.

They needed a massive amount of data to decide how and when the bags would displace.

Motocross/Supercross has more variables in G-forces...from my understanding they're working on it but I think that development started in the last few years...I'd expect it to be a few more years before we see initial versions pop up.

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1/18/2018 8:22 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/18/2018 8:23 AM

With the right technology, It could be kind of good for multiple reasons, but I am also afraid that if the riders get too much protection then it will raise the speed especially on big rythm sections (triple triple quad...), so actually there will be still 2 things where things must improved; helmet and spine protection. It is not the middle age but almost, knowing how much technology has changed globally in the past 30 years. I just don't think the bar has been raised much since like a shoei vfx, axo pentagon (front) and dainese (back), whereas the bikes are going like 10 to 20 mph or 30% faster almost everywhere.

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1/18/2018 8:24 AM

Thank you for the info Michael...that all makes sense

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1/18/2018 9:00 AM

Photo

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1/18/2018 10:04 AM

But if you crash more than once in a race do you just rip it off and be on your way like a tear off? Fresh bag for the next crash?

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

1/18/2018 10:14 AM

AJ565 wrote:

But if you crash more than once in a race do you just rip it off and be on your way like a tear off? Fresh bag for the next crash?

I have no idea how the technology is being planned out. Maybe it is a simple inflate for 5 seconds then deflates with back up air discharges? I have no idea if it is feasible for MX but I’m sure someone has the engineering capabilities to make it work. I know Eli or Marvin would be okay with missing the round they crashed in if it meant being good to go for the next race. Could be a title saver

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1/18/2018 10:20 AM

AJ565 wrote:

But if you crash more than once in a race do you just rip it off and be on your way like a tear off? Fresh bag for the next crash?

It only inflates in bigger crashes. So it wouldn't release in small tip overs.

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1/18/2018 10:57 AM

KennyT wrote:

So if the powers at Moto GP (I imagine they are just slightly above the circus that runs SX) are making rider air bags mandatory do you think this would work in SX?

Seems it would have saved Marvin and Eli from injury. Might be best for the riders, spectators, ratings etc for the sanctioning body to not give the riders a choice on what protection is needed. It is a business and when the top guys sit at home business will suffer

ML512 wrote:

The technology isn't ready yet. The crew from Alpinestars told me it took ten years of collecting data from MotoGP, World Superbike, and events all over the world to develop the working prototypes...let alone the years since then getting it ready for actual racing use.

They needed a massive amount of data to decide how and when the bags would displace.

Motocross/Supercross has more variables in G-forces...from my understanding they're working on it but I think that development started in the last few years...I'd expect it to be a few more years before we see initial versions pop up.

EXACTLY!

This was my research project for undergrad. We had a working prototype but it was so difficult to come up with the algorithms to correctly deploy the airbags only when needed. It is very tough to know, mathematically, when someone is actually crashing, and you don't want to deploy too early because you could cause someone to crash. Plus, it's not cheap.

We ended up using a ripcord similar to the one you use on a jetski for manual deployment, but even that wasn't perfect since most of us try to ride it out and crash still holding onto the bars.


Despite the difficulty though, I still believe in the technology. It won't prevent all injuries for sure, but if it can diminish the consequences from many of the bigger crashes, I think it's worth it.

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1/18/2018 11:12 AM

AJ565 wrote:

But if you crash more than once in a race do you just rip it off and be on your way like a tear off? Fresh bag for the next crash?

Motofinne wrote:

It only inflates in bigger crashes. So it wouldn't release in small tip overs.

I get that, but I've had some pretty spectacular crashes that I've gotten up from and hopped back on the bike lol.

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

1/18/2018 1:50 PM

ML512 wrote:

The technology isn't ready yet. The crew from Alpinestars told me it took ten years of collecting data from MotoGP, World Superbike, and events all over the world to develop the working prototypes...let alone the years since then getting it ready for actual racing use.

They needed a massive amount of data to decide how and when the bags would displace.

Motocross/Supercross has more variables in G-forces...from my understanding they're working on it but I think that development started in the last few years...I'd expect it to be a few more years before we see initial versions pop up.

I’m pretty sure they are running them at Dakar this year but even that is quite a different application than motocross.

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1/18/2018 1:55 PM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote: Photo

It looks like you would get hot riding in it

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1/18/2018 2:16 PM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote: Photo

5thgearpinnedJB65 wrote:

It looks like you would get hot riding in it

Better than getting hurt riding in it

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1/18/2018 2:23 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/18/2018 2:26 PM

The design currently considered the top contender is a full suit that inflates when

- three limbs are separated from the vehicle
- g force exceeds 5 g’s
- the vehicle is inverted
- a compression sensor under the frame is tripped when casing a whoop
- you are within one foot of Vince Friese

Here is the prototype:


Photo

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Avoiding JS7 threads since 3/7/17.

1/18/2018 2:51 PM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote: Photo

5thgearpinnedJB65 wrote:

It looks like you would get hot riding in it

They are hot, but that's a minor compromise on the grand scale of things.

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

1/18/2018 2:53 PM

10000hrs wrote:

The design currently considered the top contender is a full suit that inflates when

- three limbs are separated from the vehicle
- g force exceeds 5 g’s
- the vehicle is inverted
- a compression sensor under the frame is tripped when casing a whoop
- you are within one foot of Vince Friese

Here is the prototype:


Photo

These points prevent the gear from working for me due to the following:

- three limbs are separated from the vehicle – I often do no footers and point back at each loser I lap or pass
- g force exceeds 5 g’s – When im doing the triples I usually hit them 7th gear wide open, achieving a minimum of 6 g’s on the take off
- the vehicle is inverted – How else do I celebrate anther win without throwing a backflip?
- a compression sensor under the frame is tripped when casing a whoop – Dragging frame through the whoops is actually fastest and most efficient
- you are within one foot of Vince Friese – I’m currently designing a mad max style side car for him to ride in as a defense accessory

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1/18/2018 2:54 PM

How's about a fishing line from your pants to the bike. 2 feet. When it breaks it goes! haha

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Cheers, Crush
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1/18/2018 3:06 PM

AJ565 wrote:

But if you crash more than once in a race do you just rip it off and be on your way like a tear off? Fresh bag for the next crash?

It works with air canisters. You have 2 uses out of it before you need to refill/change the canisters. Not sure if you have to deflate it yourself or if it does it on its own but technically they're good for 2 crashes.

Pretty expensive setup at over $1000 but I guess there's really no price when it comes to safety.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

1/18/2018 3:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/18/2018 3:16 PM

10000hrs wrote:

The design currently considered the top contender is a full suit that inflates when

- three limbs are separated from the vehicle
- g force exceeds 5 g’s
- the vehicle is inverted
- a compression sensor under the frame is tripped when casing a whoop
- you are within one foot of Vince Friese

Here is the prototype:


Photo

Too funny.

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1/18/2018 3:51 PM

Dakota Tedder wouldn't have made the main with that shit.

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1/18/2018 5:40 PM

Why not just wear the shoulder pads like BK in the day,these skinny jeans fitting jerseys have no safety assistance at all!

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Mugen666

1/18/2018 11:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/18/2018 11:48 PM

AJ565 wrote:

But if you crash more than once in a race do you just rip it off and be on your way like a tear off? Fresh bag for the next crash?

-MAVERICK- wrote:

It works with air canisters. You have 2 uses out of it before you need to refill/change the canisters. Not sure if you have to deflate it yourself or if it does it on its own but technically they're good for 2 crashes.

Pretty expensive setup at over $1000 but I guess there's really no price when it comes to safety.

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Thanks for the Alpinestars info and links, i didn't know we are actually seing a breakthrough in the right direction. Rxr, 6D, wrist braces are also part of this evolution which is nice to see.

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1/18/2018 11:51 PM

I'd think that making some sort of chest/shoulder protector mandatory should be next. These things tend to be small progressions and air bags are quite a large step.

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1/18/2018 11:54 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

I'd think that making some sort of chest/shoulder protector mandatory should be next. These things tend to be small progressions and air bags are quite a large step.

We have that in a lot of countries in Europe. You have to use an chest protector when you race.

I think the same rule is in the GPs too.

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1/19/2018 12:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/19/2018 12:41 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote: Photo

5thgearpinnedJB65 wrote:

It looks like you would get hot riding in it

tempura wrote:

They are hot, but that's a minor compromise on the grand scale of things.

Joan Cros wears it and told me most of the french SX specialists do too. I just ordered one. I don't ride much in summer so I don't care if its hot.

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1/19/2018 6:56 AM

5thgearpinnedJB65 wrote:

It looks like you would get hot riding in it

tempura wrote:

They are hot, but that's a minor compromise on the grand scale of things.

mmcmx wrote:

Joan Cros wears it and told me most of the french SX specialists do too. I just ordered one. I don't ride much in summer so I don't care if its hot.

I didn't know about this one but wore the previous ones. They are great, in the very top regarding protection. The first version was better for shoulders which is why I used it the most and passed quickly on the second one, and the third version has an extra option for shoulders/elbows but are not super protective for the collarbones. The one in the picture above looks the greatest, still it is limited regarding the back/lower back extensions (magoo like, legs flying over MUST have something rigid and resistant to limit extensions...). Plus it is not well vented. To feel protected I had to wear one armor under, and one rxr above, which makes it only possible to ride when relatively cold. Anyway at this time, I don't see a perfect chest protector, and in all cases they should be mandatory (they are in France in public tracks btw).

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