Aftermarket Engine Mount Problems

11/5/2019 6:14pm
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

1
Luxon MX
Posts
1052
Joined
11/6/2017
Location
San Diego, CA US
Fantasy
1228th
11/5/2019 6:34pm
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

Well, yes. The good aftermarket companies are focusing on only a few select products where the OEMs are working on an entire motorcycle. Given the limited focus, the aftermarket is able to create a better product than stock. OEMs are also heavily constrained by the end cost much more than aftermarket.

So yes, aftermarket can very well be better than stock. Of course that's not a hard rule. There are/have been plenty of aftermarket parts worse than stock...
7
mx216
Posts
725
Joined
3/21/2009
Location
Portland, OR US
11/5/2019 6:37pm
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

Its not about being better, its about adjustment. Same reason there are different bends of handlebars, different grips, different bar mount heights etc... It is about people achieving a certain feel on their bike.
1
ML512
Posts
15424
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
36th
11/6/2019 5:31am
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
2

The Shop

kb228
Posts
6161
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH US
11/6/2019 5:43am
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
2
10
kb228
Posts
6161
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH US
11/6/2019 5:45am
kb228 wrote:
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
3
11/6/2019 6:12am
kb228 wrote:
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
slipdog
Posts
10043
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
11/6/2019 6:52am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
BlinkBlinkBlink ???



3
davis224
Posts
6214
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
182nd
11/6/2019 7:24am
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the...
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
This. RC had a polished OEM pipe on his CR 250 with a PC silencer, because the stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket.
bvm111
Posts
9287
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
11/6/2019 7:33am
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

1
WDSRCR
Posts
305
Joined
7/10/2017
Location
OH US
11/6/2019 7:35am
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the...
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
davis224 wrote:
This. RC had a polished OEM pipe on his CR 250 with a PC silencer, because the stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket.
My 2005 KX250 stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket. My 2015 KTM200 OEM was better as well.
1
MXVet261
Posts
711
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Valley City, OH US
Fantasy
3973rd
11/6/2019 7:39am
Has anyone done any LIME testing against these new mounts to make sure they will be ok for Supercross? Tongue
2
soggy
Posts
4810
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
Fantasy
3783rd
11/6/2019 7:44am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

i believe he is using WCL mounts but im not positive.
shiftmx_22
Posts
672
Joined
4/14/2008
Location
CA
Fantasy
850th
11/6/2019 7:53am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
That's not cool at all - sketchy business practices or not.
1
ML512
Posts
15424
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
36th
11/6/2019 8:05am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
5
1
mxracin
Posts
89
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Reno, NV US
11/6/2019 8:36am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
Not very funny... because after watching that video, it sure seems like they are both blaming the motor mounts for the DNF.
1
SoCalMX70
Posts
2812
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
11/6/2019 9:22am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
Probably better to just observe on this one.
Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
11/6/2019 9:58am
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
1
11/6/2019 10:16am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

Don't know, but certainly top athletes are as susceptible to placebo effects as anybody... Probably more so, as they are grasping for any slight perceived competitive advantage.
scott_nz
Posts
5304
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NZ
Fantasy
597th
11/6/2019 10:45am
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
Bruce372 wrote:
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off. So many times, aftermarket stuff has a...
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
I have seen a few pro circuit pipes cause that issue. The early 2019 kx450 ones did it as well
11/6/2019 11:24am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

ML512 wrote:
Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
What did he use for 2019?
11/6/2019 11:27am
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the...
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
davis224 wrote:
This. RC had a polished OEM pipe on his CR 250 with a PC silencer, because the stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket.
Ask Roczen how his stock triple clamps worked on his RMZ compared to aftermarket clamps.
1
ML512
Posts
15424
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
36th
11/6/2019 12:35pm
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

ML512 wrote:
Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
What did he use for 2019?
They went back and forth between stock and our stuff. I believe there will be another off-season test soon.
bvm111
Posts
9287
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
11/6/2019 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2019 1:17pm
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

ML512 wrote:
Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
They were rhetorical questions Michael, I ran yours on my 2016 KX450 and loved them and could absolutely tell a difference! i think it’s funny when all the keyboard mechanical engineers and factory test riders come on and say that there is no way to tell a difference and any person that says they do it’s a placebo to justify the 250 dollars spent!
2
scott_nz
Posts
5304
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NZ
Fantasy
597th
11/6/2019 9:20pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2019 9:21pm
Hey Michael. I notice a lot of flat track bikes run no rear motor mount. Is this to get more flex ?
mg311
Posts
154
Joined
9/30/2016
Location
IT
11/14/2019 9:38am
i have WCL on mine 19 CRF 450 here in italy we rode 90% on hardpack i made a comparison with stock and the difference is amazing come to a retorque swingarm pivot transform the bike it's way easier on bump in corner entrance and in the ruts
MZ193
Posts
938
Joined
12/14/2018
Location
IT
11/14/2019 10:06am
mg311 wrote:
i have WCL on mine 19 CRF 450 here in italy we rode 90% on hardpack i made a comparison with stock and the difference is...
i have WCL on mine 19 CRF 450 here in italy we rode 90% on hardpack i made a comparison with stock and the difference is amazing come to a retorque swingarm pivot transform the bike it's way easier on bump in corner entrance and in the ruts
Dude i’m italian too but from lombardia!
Are you close to me? Guess no because hardpacks are generally from mid to south italy..
kb228
Posts
6161
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH US
11/14/2019 10:09am
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
Bruce372 wrote:
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off. So many times, aftermarket stuff has a...
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
Even if we take pipes out of the equation..

Xtrig clamps vs OEM
CP piston kit with DLC coated wrist pin vs OEM
Carillo rods vs OEM
ARC levers vs OEM
Boyesen waterpump vs OEM
Raptor pegs vs OEM
Cycra plastics vs OEM
RAD valves or vforce3 vs OEM
Motoseat vs OEM
RK or DID gold chains vs OEM
Dirttricks sprocket vs OEM
Tokyo Mods or TD ECU map vs OEM
KITE hubs vs OEM


These products are generally accepted as upgrades over oem. The list is short and still incomplete but 100% true.
aeffertz
Posts
9178
Joined
7/16/2015
Location
Eau Claire, WI US
11/14/2019 10:35am
kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
Bruce372 wrote:
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off. So many times, aftermarket stuff has a...
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
kb228 wrote:
Even if we take pipes out of the equation.. Xtrig clamps vs OEM CP piston kit with DLC coated wrist pin vs OEM Carillo rods vs...
Even if we take pipes out of the equation..

Xtrig clamps vs OEM
CP piston kit with DLC coated wrist pin vs OEM
Carillo rods vs OEM
ARC levers vs OEM
Boyesen waterpump vs OEM
Raptor pegs vs OEM
Cycra plastics vs OEM
RAD valves or vforce3 vs OEM
Motoseat vs OEM
RK or DID gold chains vs OEM
Dirttricks sprocket vs OEM
Tokyo Mods or TD ECU map vs OEM
KITE hubs vs OEM


These products are generally accepted as upgrades over oem. The list is short and still incomplete but 100% true.
You wouldn't say a forged piston is better than a cast piston? Wiseco is fine. Seems like you're just picking favorites.

Post a reply to: Aftermarket Engine Mount Problems

The Latest