After Keefer's 1st 450 shootout day they seem to think the RMZ rear shock is ok per his podcast.

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9/19/2017 1:16 PM

Still finished last but the rear shock wasn't it's worst part that put it there. 3 hours long but he gives a good summary in the first 20 minutes.

Looks like Honda's stock is going up this year!

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/keefer-tested/e/51524198?autoplay=true

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"Who cares about what other people think"

9/19/2017 1:31 PM

Interestingly put by Keefer, he said Suzuki took a sideways step this year rather than one step forward.

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9/19/2017 1:33 PM

I like the concept of doing these interviews after each day!

It will be interesting if the riders feel the same about the shock on the other tracks. The guys that did the Vital shootout did not like it.

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9/19/2017 1:41 PM

Great podcast, Keefer. Loved all 3 hours of it! Super informative.

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9/19/2017 1:47 PM

Motofinne wrote:

I like the concept of doing these interviews after each day!

It will be interesting if the riders feel the same about the shock on the other tracks. The guys that did the Vital shootout did not like it.

I think Keefer's is great, we chatted for 30 mins this morning and plan on doing a podcast together in a week or so.

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9/19/2017 1:53 PM

Interestingly enough, I got a call yesterday morning from our Suzuki rep as they were just getting started at DirtBike's Shootout. I went over our comments for about 20 mins with him and we'll be working with Suzuki on some further testing here soon. I got a text at the end of day stating they actually used our feedback towards some of the changes throughout the day for DirtBike's group and it helped.

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9/19/2017 1:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/19/2017 1:56 PM

Still day 1...see what happens after 2 more test days. Johnson said track was probably "too smooth" to really test suspension, just a lot of small chop.

Interesting all the different opinions on KTM/Husky/Yamaha. Definitely an acquired taste.

Also everyone saying the RMZ engine is "meh" and the "too smooth" comment, yet still has plenty of power. Hits too high of RPMs without letting you know.

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9/19/2017 1:57 PM

miketherider wrote:

Still day 1...see what happens after 2 more test days. Johnson said track was probably "too smooth" to really test suspension, just a lot of small chop.

Interesting all the different opinions on KTM/Husky/Yamaha. Definitely an acquired taste.

Also everyone saying the RMZ engine is "meh" and the "too smooth" comment, yet still has plenty of power. Hits too high of RPMs without letting you know.

Similar to what our guy's said about the engine. As most would argue on here, 450s make enough power...but there are 450s that make more power and yet are more usable. Put it bluntly, the RM-Z makes enough, but many of the other bikes make more and it's usable...not needed all the time, but handy when you want it.

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9/19/2017 1:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/19/2017 1:59 PM

The RMZ shock will be fine. People that don't like it will have plenty of options to have them revalved/etc just like in the past.

I've bought bikes before that I almost couldn't ride them stock the suspension was so bad. Have a reputable tuner work on it and voila it's good.

I would much rather deal with the new technology shock on the RMZ than the TAC air forks of the past few years (on the Kaw too).

If the RMZ came with air forks still it would be 100% off my list of consideration.

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9/19/2017 1:58 PM

Anyone check the guy that wanted to shoot ML512's buddy for Ranking the Husky 6th? He may be off the deep end if he listened to that Pod!

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9/19/2017 2:02 PM

MXVet261 wrote:

The RMZ shock will be fine. People that don't like it will have plenty of options to have them revalved/etc just like in the past.

I've bought bikes before that I almost couldn't ride them stock the suspension was so bad. Have a reputable tuner work on it and voila it's good.

I would much rather deal with the new technology shock on the RMZ than the TAC air forks of the past few years (on the Kaw too).

If the RMZ came with air forks still it would be 100% off my list of consideration.

Very true in that sense. The cool part about this shock is it can sorta be converted to a more traditional design if needed or can be modified as is. The new forks are worth their weight in their gold coated upper tubes...compared to the TAC.

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9/19/2017 2:40 PM

I think its cool ML lets guys break down another sites shootout. Thanks

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9/19/2017 2:40 PM

After coming off a 14 yz450 to a rmz450, the less power makes an out of shape guy go faster and more laps. The extra heft is not noticable on the track. The turning on the suzuki is second to none. Also the little less hp makes it so much easier to have fun.

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9/19/2017 2:43 PM

gpracer36 wrote:

I think its cool ML lets guys break down another sites shootout. Thanks

A Shootout is just opinion and I love discussing testing itself...that's why me and Keefer were talking about doing a podcast about it. No one is right or wrong if they give their honest opinion. Ultimately we do Shootouts to give the end reader more info about the bikes they're looking at buying.

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9/19/2017 3:17 PM

I apologize in advance ML, my mom was an English teacher, it's Keefer and I.

KC

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9/19/2017 3:35 PM

Glad to hear the same complaints about the AER forks that I have been having.

Will be interesting to see what they did to change some of that and what Keefer recommends.

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9/19/2017 3:36 PM

752dad wrote:

I apologize in advance ML, my mom was an English teacher, it's Keefer and I.

KC

That it is, and I deserve that correction.

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9/19/2017 3:43 PM

Kind of surprising how all over the board these rankings are..

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9/19/2017 3:46 PM

It was just one day at one track, who knows how the opinions will change after a couple days on the bikes.

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9/19/2017 3:55 PM

gpracer36 wrote:

I think its cool ML lets guys break down another sites shootout. Thanks

ML512 wrote:

A Shootout is just opinion and I love discussing testing itself...that's why me and Keefer were talking about doing a podcast about it. No one is right or wrong if they give their honest opinion. Ultimately we do Shootouts to give the end reader more info about the bikes they're looking at buying.

ML
Your last sentence is the most important thing to consider. People need to implant that sentence in their heads when reading a shootout.

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9/19/2017 4:14 PM

ob wrote:

It was just one day at one track, who knows how the opinions will change after a couple days on the bikes.

Agreed. The Suzuki rear shock opinion may drop down once they start hitting bumps with it.

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"Who cares about what other people think"

9/19/2017 4:14 PM

Richard Tease II wrote:

ML
Your last sentence is the most important thing to consider. People need to implant that sentence in their heads when reading a shootout.

I'm thinking that sentence needs to go in the Shootout...about 500 times.

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9/19/2017 4:19 PM

The Keefer comments were more along the lines of what I saw on the 2018 RMZ. I felt the shock was good, forks were great. The motor is smooth and needs some hit to add excitement. I think it has been the same story for years and years. Buy the one you like and tailor it to your style and preference and you will be just fine.

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9/19/2017 4:26 PM

ML512 wrote:

Interestingly enough, I got a call yesterday morning from our Suzuki rep as they were just getting started at DirtBike's Shootout. I went over our comments for about 20 mins with him and we'll be working with Suzuki on some further testing here soon. I got a text at the end of day stating they actually used our feedback towards some of the changes throughout the day for DirtBike's group and it helped.

Why did he say it is so heavy?

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9/19/2017 4:29 PM

I suspected the new RMZ Shock needed more testing on the production model.

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

9/19/2017 4:30 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Why did he say it is so heavy?

He didn't have a reason, he's not an engineer or part of the design team...

We didn't talk that much about weight, mostly shock comments and what notes I had from the guys.

But simply, they haven't redesigned their engine in over ten years, there's the first place to look for weight...

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9/19/2017 4:31 PM

ML512 wrote:

Interestingly enough, I got a call yesterday morning from our Suzuki rep as they were just getting started at DirtBike's Shootout. I went over our comments for about 20 mins with him and we'll be working with Suzuki on some further testing here soon. I got a text at the end of day stating they actually used our feedback towards some of the changes throughout the day for DirtBike's group and it helped.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Why did he say it is so heavy?

ML512 wrote:

He didn't have a reason, he's not an engineer or part of the design team...

We didn't talk that much about weight, mostly shock comments and what notes I had from the guys.

But simply, they haven't redesigned their engine in over ten years, there's the first place to look for weight...

Makes sense!

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9/19/2017 4:38 PM

752dad wrote:

I apologize in advance ML, my mom was an English teacher, it's Keefer and I.

KC

Should not that be, we apologize in advance." We" being you and your condescending ego. tongue

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If I'm healthy enough to complain. I shouldn't be complaining.

9/19/2017 4:54 PM

ML512 wrote:

Interestingly enough, I got a call yesterday morning from our Suzuki rep as they were just getting started at DirtBike's Shootout. I went over our comments for about 20 mins with him and we'll be working with Suzuki on some further testing here soon. I got a text at the end of day stating they actually used our feedback towards some of the changes throughout the day for DirtBike's group and it helped.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Why did he say it is so heavy?

ML512 wrote:

He didn't have a reason, he's not an engineer or part of the design team...

We didn't talk that much about weight, mostly shock comments and what notes I had from the guys.

But simply, they haven't redesigned their engine in over ten years, there's the first place to look for weight...

Yo ML,

Keeper mentioned the RMZ will likely have e-start next year, and that manufacturers are likely testing the 2019 models presently. Do you foresee Suzuki dropping a entirely new motor in this chassis in the next 2 years?

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9/19/2017 4:59 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Why did he say it is so heavy?

ML512 wrote:

He didn't have a reason, he's not an engineer or part of the design team...

We didn't talk that much about weight, mostly shock comments and what notes I had from the guys.

But simply, they haven't redesigned their engine in over ten years, there's the first place to look for weight...

kwenske321 wrote:

Yo ML,

Keeper mentioned the RMZ will likely have e-start next year, and that manufacturers are likely testing the 2019 models presently. Do you foresee Suzuki dropping a entirely new motor in this chassis in the next 2 years?

Hopefully, it has to be 8-10lbs heavier than the ktm engine. Would be cool to see just the engine weights. Yamaha really shoots up in weight 250-450 where ktm is just a few lbs so that tells the story where most of the weight is.

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