Advice needed from 30+ 40+ and other Vet guys…..250 or 450?

SX_336
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SX_336
Edited Date/Time 1/9/2022 12:25pm
I’m considering making a run at Loretta’s and I was wondering how many 250F’s actually line up at Loretta’s. Is the majority of all these classes on 450’s?

I’m about to get a new 2022 and I can’t decide if I should get a 250 or 450. My main concern is losing races in the first 50 yards getting pulled by 450’s.

I’m 5’7 and weigh 165 pounds.

Thanks in advance.
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Meister
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Meister 1/5/2022 7:19pm
1/5/2022 7:19pm
Not many. I bought a 450 because I was at a big disadvantage to the 39 other guys on the gate at a regional.. at the ranch, it don't matter and you may benefit from a smaller bike.. I always said if I made it again I'd buy a 125 or a cr500, just to make it fun.
AJ565
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AJ565 1/5/2022 7:20pm
1/5/2022 7:20pm
350. Find someone that has one and take some laps. Best of both worlds.
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Moto520
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Moto520 1/5/2022 7:31pm
1/5/2022 7:31pm
I would think a modded 250f would give you the best chance of doing well. The track is small
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Meister
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Meister 1/5/2022 7:44pm
1/5/2022 7:44pm
Moto520 wrote:
I would think a modded 250f would give you the best chance of doing well. The track is small
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough.

A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on my 450 I was able to pull him n beat him even at an area qualifier. He's no slouch and had ridden nationals in the past. If he was on a 450, he woulda had me..

If your riding purely for fun, buy something other than a 350.. if you want your best shot at the ranch, buy an equal bike..
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T-Fish
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T-Fish 1/5/2022 7:48pm
1/5/2022 7:48pm
Moto520 wrote:
I would think a modded 250f would give you the best chance of doing well. The track is small
Meister wrote:
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough. A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on...
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough.

A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on my 450 I was able to pull him n beat him even at an area qualifier. He's no slouch and had ridden nationals in the past. If he was on a 450, he woulda had me..

If your riding purely for fun, buy something other than a 350.. if you want your best shot at the ranch, buy an equal bike..
A guy just won the 30 class there recently on a 125. This blows your theory to shit.
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AgentOrange
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AgentOrange 1/5/2022 8:13pm
1/5/2022 8:13pm
Again, the 350 thread converted me. It is the Vet bike.
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Ryan625
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Ryan625 1/5/2022 8:15pm
1/5/2022 8:15pm
Ive gone from 250 two strokes to a 250f, and am now on a 350. I still keep an RM250 around for fun but the MC350 feels like it'll be my daily
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Meister
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Meister 1/5/2022 8:20pm
1/5/2022 8:20pm
Moto520 wrote:
I would think a modded 250f would give you the best chance of doing well. The track is small
Meister wrote:
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough. A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on...
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough.

A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on my 450 I was able to pull him n beat him even at an area qualifier. He's no slouch and had ridden nationals in the past. If he was on a 450, he woulda had me..

If your riding purely for fun, buy something other than a 350.. if you want your best shot at the ranch, buy an equal bike..
T-Fish wrote:
A guy just won the 30 class there recently on a 125. This blows your theory to shit.
Maybe an ex pro, but not a normal dude giving it a go.. these days anyway.. also, reread what I said about a smaller bike may be better AT Lorettas..

Define "just won" btw.. not in 30+ unless you look back a ways and I think David Jones did it on a kx125 once back in the day..

Have you tried or been to Lorettas in a vet class?
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J-Mill
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J-Mill 1/5/2022 8:22pm
1/5/2022 8:22pm
A 350 is the way to go. If you think you need more pull for starts put a Vortex ECU on it. You can make the motor feel like a baby 450 with mapping and gearing. The only difference is it doesn’t wear you out as fast, doesn’t throw you to the ground as hard and tips right into the corner with ease. Favorite bike I’ve ever owned is my 350 and I’ll be on one until I’m done riding.
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T-Fish
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T-Fish 1/5/2022 8:28pm
1/5/2022 8:28pm
Meister wrote:
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough. A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on...
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough.

A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on my 450 I was able to pull him n beat him even at an area qualifier. He's no slouch and had ridden nationals in the past. If he was on a 450, he woulda had me..

If your riding purely for fun, buy something other than a 350.. if you want your best shot at the ranch, buy an equal bike..
T-Fish wrote:
A guy just won the 30 class there recently on a 125. This blows your theory to shit.
Meister wrote:
Maybe an ex pro, but not a normal dude giving it a go.. these days anyway.. also, reread what I said about a smaller bike may...
Maybe an ex pro, but not a normal dude giving it a go.. these days anyway.. also, reread what I said about a smaller bike may be better AT Lorettas..

Define "just won" btw.. not in 30+ unless you look back a ways and I think David Jones did it on a kx125 once back in the day..

Have you tried or been to Lorettas in a vet class?
I don’t remember who or when it was. Maybe 8 years ago? I don’t remember. A 125 is just as underpowered now as it was then, so it doesn’t really matter.

And no, I haven’t. LL is a waste of time and money. Not only that, I wouldn’t even be able to qualify my way into the 65 class, much less anything faster.
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mbw479
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mbw479 1/5/2022 8:30pm
1/5/2022 8:30pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2022 8:30pm
350 4-stroke or 300 2-stroke.
TJMX947
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TJMX947 1/5/2022 8:35pm
1/5/2022 8:35pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2022 8:36pm
David Jones won +30 b/c on a kx125 in 2010. He is no joke on a dirt bike either. I believe he qualified on a 250 two stroke but chose to ride a 125 at the ranch. Also he might have only gotten one top 5 moto score the entire week.

At lorettas I'm convinced you should ride the bike you have the most fun on. For a regional you'll need a start to win a 5 lap race against dudes who have more money than skill. Good luck, I kind of want to make a run myself...I'll be on a 350 by the way.
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Meister
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Meister 1/5/2022 9:07pm
1/5/2022 9:07pm
T-Fish wrote:
A guy just won the 30 class there recently on a 125. This blows your theory to shit.
Meister wrote:
Maybe an ex pro, but not a normal dude giving it a go.. these days anyway.. also, reread what I said about a smaller bike may...
Maybe an ex pro, but not a normal dude giving it a go.. these days anyway.. also, reread what I said about a smaller bike may be better AT Lorettas..

Define "just won" btw.. not in 30+ unless you look back a ways and I think David Jones did it on a kx125 once back in the day..

Have you tried or been to Lorettas in a vet class?
T-Fish wrote:
I don’t remember who or when it was. Maybe 8 years ago? I don’t remember. A 125 is just as underpowered now as it was then...
I don’t remember who or when it was. Maybe 8 years ago? I don’t remember. A 125 is just as underpowered now as it was then, so it doesn’t really matter.

And no, I haven’t. LL is a waste of time and money. Not only that, I wouldn’t even be able to qualify my way into the 65 class, much less anything faster.
Dave Jones is a friend of my ironically. NE Ohio guy.. that was in a BC class.

I do attempt to qualify and I've come as close as 10th at a regional. (Aside from when I did make it to the ranch when I was 14). Not a fn chance I woulda got even 10th if I wasn't on a 450 at Baja acres..

If you haven't done it, it's a different animal from what it was 20 years ago. You better be real a real fn ripper if you're even going to attempt on a bike smaller than a 450.. see how many 350s line up at the ranch compared to 450s..

Yes, smaller bikes are more fun and the 350 might be the best vet fun bike.
Vet57
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Vet57 1/6/2022 3:26am
1/6/2022 3:26am
Wanna say Semics rode a BB 250F there when he smoked his class. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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yak651
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yak651 1/6/2022 4:27am
1/6/2022 4:27am
You either are a good starter or you're not. Yes a 125 would be a huge disadvantage but if you are a good starter you can get a start on a 250f vs 450 (maybe not holeshot but in the top 5-10). You have to totally be on the bubble for a 250 being a liability for you to make it, if that's the case you aren't in the top 20 anyhow at the ranch so might as well buy what you feel is the most fun to ride.
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MXer391
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MXer391 1/6/2022 9:21am
1/6/2022 9:21am
You didn't mention your weight but pretty much everything Meister said is probably accurate. I have raced on several of the tracks that hold area/regionals in the Northeast. Can you qualify on a 250F? Sure. But depending on the track, its gonna be more difficult. I really think it all boils down to how fast are you? Let's get serious, the dudes qualifying for Loretta's in the Vet classes can probably turn close to the same lap times on either a 250 or a 450. If I were you, I'd be honest with myself about my realistic speed and buy the bike I feel the most comfortable going fast on. Loretta's is only 2 qualifiers and the National. You gotta ride that bike all year everywhere else you practice/race.
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murph783
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murph783 1/6/2022 9:25am
1/6/2022 9:25am
250 for enjoyment, 450 for results. But, and this is a big but. 250 May be a benefit in long motos, it definitely doesn’t tire you out as much
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ElliotB16
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ElliotB16 1/6/2022 9:50am
1/6/2022 9:50am
I ride both 250f and 450. Pros of the 250f-much easier to corner and doesn’t wear you out in long motos. You do give up horsepower but I think with practice you can match the lap times of a 450. You’ll give up a lot on the start against 450s but besides that you should be jus as fast too unless the track is deep. On a track like Loretta’s, with long motos, a 250f should be fine.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 1/6/2022 10:00am
1/6/2022 10:00am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2022 10:01am
T-Fish wrote:
A guy just won the 30 class there recently on a 125. This blows your theory to shit.
That's a pretty uneducated opinion. Check results from the regionals, each class has almost 40 guys and most of them on 450s. That means you'll need to pass at least 3/4 of the field in each of the 3 motos and you've got 5 laps to do it. Yes, if you're significantly faster than the field it can and has been done. Most people are not significantly faster than the field they're racing against. The whole point is to actually make it to the Ranch, anything less than what everyone else lines up with is a disadvantage at least on the start and the qualifiers are nothing but sprint races.
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Moto520
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Moto520 1/6/2022 10:00am
1/6/2022 10:00am
emig rode a 150....he won the class!
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Meister
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Meister 1/6/2022 10:00am
1/6/2022 10:00am
MXer391 wrote:
You didn't mention your weight but pretty much everything Meister said is probably accurate. I have raced on several of the tracks that hold area/regionals in...
You didn't mention your weight but pretty much everything Meister said is probably accurate. I have raced on several of the tracks that hold area/regionals in the Northeast. Can you qualify on a 250F? Sure. But depending on the track, its gonna be more difficult. I really think it all boils down to how fast are you? Let's get serious, the dudes qualifying for Loretta's in the Vet classes can probably turn close to the same lap times on either a 250 or a 450. If I were you, I'd be honest with myself about my realistic speed and buy the bike I feel the most comfortable going fast on. Loretta's is only 2 qualifiers and the National. You gotta ride that bike all year everywhere else you practice/race.
Yup. What I'm saying is if you buy a bike FOR Lorettas, you may not even make it there. You need to buy a bike FOR qualifying. Unless your super fast, take any advantage you can get. Old guys can still hold a 450 wide open and pull on a smaller bike.

Another buddy of mine is pretty equal in skill to me. At red bud vet fest he got shit for starts and I was 10-12 positions ahead of him every moto..
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Shawn142
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Shawn142 1/6/2022 10:08am
1/6/2022 10:08am
Moto520 wrote:
emig rode a 150....he won the class!
I think you guys are missing the point.. the OP's last name is not Emig and he most likely isn't a former AMA Pro Motocross champion. I imagine he's an average dude who wants to put in work and just try to qualify for the race. Unless you go into the qualifiers knowing you can wax the floor with the field it's probably not a good idea to give up so much to them.
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motomike137
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motomike137 1/6/2022 10:11am
1/6/2022 10:11am
Moto520 wrote:
I would think a modded 250f would give you the best chance of doing well. The track is small
You have to get there first and you better be a holeshot artist especially if your on a 250.
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Motodave15 1/6/2022 10:17am
1/6/2022 10:17am
Im 33yr old vet lol... I say 450f, depending on your weight and riding ability.

If youre a light vet say under 170lbs i think you can get away with a 250f Or if you're really fast.. but for the most part. I lean towards 450 because you can always detune cheaper than you can make faster.
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AH387 1/6/2022 10:19am
1/6/2022 10:19am
Meister wrote:
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough. A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on...
Maybe AT Lorettas, but the regionals are tough.

A buddy I raced against in 16 had a 350. He's always been faster than me, but on my 450 I was able to pull him n beat him even at an area qualifier. He's no slouch and had ridden nationals in the past. If he was on a 450, he woulda had me..

If your riding purely for fun, buy something other than a 350.. if you want your best shot at the ranch, buy an equal bike..
I know people get pissed at this idea, but I find it to be true also. The 350 is awesome but sometimes when you race it, you realize it's less effective than it feels like, when you are practicing. Once you have to start taking lines that you don't want to take and the general stuff that happens when you are racing, it can become a bit of a struggle to ride. Another friend of mine felt the same way and we each recently moved to something else. Him on a 450 and me on a 250F. I always say the 350 is as fast as anything out there, when you are already going fast. It's the slower, tighter stuff where I just didn't like it (or when you make a mistake.) But that's just my experience.
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Hi Side
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Hi Side 1/6/2022 10:33am
1/6/2022 10:33am
So many factors to consider when making this decision like rider weight, fitness level, ability level etc...

I have a FC450 and a FC250 and I can tell you with certainty that I'm faster on the 250. Also, I can ride it harder for longer and make many passes toward the end of a moto if I get a bad start. Vet racing, in my opinion, is more about fitness level than equipment. The only place you'll be at any disadvantage on a 250 is on the start. When/if you make it to the regionals it'll be three (3) twenty minute motos in the baking heat. I'll take my 250 hands down.
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mxrose3
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mxrose3 1/6/2022 10:58am
1/6/2022 10:58am
The start means a lot at the regionals. So many guys riding over their heads, its crazy. Get a 450, then trade it for a 250F or 350 if you make it to LL's - its a small track.
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