AMA vs GP enough already!

karsmakers
Posts
706
Joined
5/24/2013
Location
Yuba City, CA US
Edited Date/Time 5/25/2015 11:44pm
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts:

It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach your potential...we knew Kenny and Marvin were not 4th and 5th place guys but that's what they got coming over here after world championships. Three -four years later they have adjusted and are now where they belong.

Zach Osborne wen't over to the Gp's not having any options over here and within a few years was challenging for wins and a top rider. He comes back to the AMA series and has struggled.

Pourcel has been fast in both series because he has spent years adapting to both series.

RV has shown good speed and won or been within 4-10 seconds of winning despite some settup issues. Does anyone really believe he wouldn't challenge for a championship after a few years to adjust?

De Salle has come over and been a top 5 guy in the few AMA races but was behind RV by quite a bit.

Covington is doing better his second year in and will continue to progress.....it takes time people

The MXDN also shows this to be true....when has the USA lost this race on a AMA track? That's right ...never. So every year we go over to Europe a moth after our series is over and have to race against the 30-35 best of the Gp series with just three of our riders on their circuit and if we don't win some dumb asses assume the riders aren't as good. WTF? When have you won on our soil?

The bottom line is that both series kick ass and require an adjustment period of not just a random race or two but a few years to reach your potential speed in the series. History... attiutudes and ego's say so. A rider cannot be judged in one race or one year....it takes a few years to adapt for their speed to show up. Right?
|
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics GB
5/24/2015 11:09am
I don't think there's much if any difference between the quality of the riders at the front of each series. What I will say though is that the GP's just seem to produce such good racing. All 4 motos today were unreal, as were the 2 qualifying races. For some reason in America the field seems to get really spread out, I don't know whether it's because of the length of the lap, or the way that the tracks are prepared, but it's just not as good racing in my book.
karsmakers
Posts
706
Joined
5/24/2013
Location
Yuba City, CA US
5/24/2015 11:24am
RY4N37 wrote:
I don't think there's much if any difference between the quality of the riders at the front of each series. What I will say though is...
I don't think there's much if any difference between the quality of the riders at the front of each series. What I will say though is that the GP's just seem to produce such good racing. All 4 motos today were unreal, as were the 2 qualifying races. For some reason in America the field seems to get really spread out, I don't know whether it's because of the length of the lap, or the way that the tracks are prepared, but it's just not as good racing in my book.
I would say that the rougher and more challenging the track the more the riders get spread out. Hangtown and Glen Helen were extremely challenging tracks so the field was more spread out. I also watched the British GP and the racing was closer but the track was less challenging than other GP tracks. So your opinion is valid but it may partially be due to track difficulty. Also, in tha AMA series there are 40 riders in a class but only 15-20 factory rides so the last 20 riders are considerably slower than the top 20. The gp series has 20 or so riders so all are relatively quick and have factory support. It all ends up fairly equal
5/24/2015 11:36am
karsmakers wrote:
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts: It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach...
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts:

It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach your potential...we knew Kenny and Marvin were not 4th and 5th place guys but that's what they got coming over here after world championships. Three -four years later they have adjusted and are now where they belong.

Zach Osborne wen't over to the Gp's not having any options over here and within a few years was challenging for wins and a top rider. He comes back to the AMA series and has struggled.

Pourcel has been fast in both series because he has spent years adapting to both series.

RV has shown good speed and won or been within 4-10 seconds of winning despite some settup issues. Does anyone really believe he wouldn't challenge for a championship after a few years to adjust?

De Salle has come over and been a top 5 guy in the few AMA races but was behind RV by quite a bit.

Covington is doing better his second year in and will continue to progress.....it takes time people

The MXDN also shows this to be true....when has the USA lost this race on a AMA track? That's right ...never. So every year we go over to Europe a moth after our series is over and have to race against the 30-35 best of the Gp series with just three of our riders on their circuit and if we don't win some dumb asses assume the riders aren't as good. WTF? When have you won on our soil?

The bottom line is that both series kick ass and require an adjustment period of not just a random race or two but a few years to reach your potential speed in the series. History... attiutudes and ego's say so. A rider cannot be judged in one race or one year....it takes a few years to adapt for their speed to show up. Right?
Fuck off ,

more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year or so towards the euro riders .

I am at the risk of sounding like a stuck record , but for fucks sake , just take a look at your post ,

RV does well despite set up issues , but you STILL cannot give De salle the same acknowledgement for his performance in some one off national rides .

Osborne , was challenging for the wins on a regular basis , really ???

I personally think the MXDN results are more of an indicator , all the bullshit we hear now about why the US have not won , is nothing different to what the likes of Bailey , Johnson , O,mara faced in years gone by , and it did not stop them from doing the business did it ??

You talk about facts , well , just look at the results , they don't lie , and are the facts !!


The Shop

Stefan82
Posts
559
Joined
11/10/2013
Location
NL
5/24/2015 11:53am
It is just strange that you rate an National Championship higher than a World Championship.
rompin87
Posts
195
Joined
9/18/2009
Location
GB
5/24/2015 11:59am
karsmakers wrote:
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts: It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach...
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts:

It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach your potential...we knew Kenny and Marvin were not 4th and 5th place guys but that's what they got coming over here after world championships. Three -four years later they have adjusted and are now where they belong.

Zach Osborne wen't over to the Gp's not having any options over here and within a few years was challenging for wins and a top rider. He comes back to the AMA series and has struggled.

Pourcel has been fast in both series because he has spent years adapting to both series.

RV has shown good speed and won or been within 4-10 seconds of winning despite some settup issues. Does anyone really believe he wouldn't challenge for a championship after a few years to adjust?

De Salle has come over and been a top 5 guy in the few AMA races but was behind RV by quite a bit.

Covington is doing better his second year in and will continue to progress.....it takes time people

The MXDN also shows this to be true....when has the USA lost this race on a AMA track? That's right ...never. So every year we go over to Europe a moth after our series is over and have to race against the 30-35 best of the Gp series with just three of our riders on their circuit and if we don't win some dumb asses assume the riders aren't as good. WTF? When have you won on our soil?

The bottom line is that both series kick ass and require an adjustment period of not just a random race or two but a few years to reach your potential speed in the series. History... attiutudes and ego's say so. A rider cannot be judged in one race or one year....it takes a few years to adapt for their speed to show up. Right?
'euros' have been trying to get that point across for as long as I can remember in here, but were always shot down......
B class.....slow ass euros.....2nd rate.....
Never like to get in these shit fest ama v gp cause I don't really give a shit.
motocross is motocross. The end
Ps not having a pop at you just saying in general.
Alucard
Posts
53
Joined
3/30/2015
Location
IT
5/24/2015 12:00pm
Fuck off , more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year...
Fuck off ,

more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year or so towards the euro riders .

I am at the risk of sounding like a stuck record , but for fucks sake , just take a look at your post ,

RV does well despite set up issues , but you STILL cannot give De salle the same acknowledgement for his performance in some one off national rides .

Osborne , was challenging for the wins on a regular basis , really ???

I personally think the MXDN results are more of an indicator , all the bullshit we hear now about why the US have not won , is nothing different to what the likes of Bailey , Johnson , O,mara faced in years gone by , and it did not stop them from doing the business did it ??

You talk about facts , well , just look at the results , they don't lie , and are the facts !!


Agreed... AMA vs GP enough already, and the first post does nothing but put some other fire into the never ending discussion, with a clear bias for AMA's riders...
Kawi15
Posts
568
Joined
5/31/2014
Location
West Richland, WA US
5/24/2015 12:18pm
Stefan82 wrote:
It is just strange that you rate an National Championship higher than a World Championship.
Why are you suggesting that just because it says World Championship that somehow it is greater?
JMR1976
Posts
1018
Joined
5/15/2015
Location
Aptos, CA US
5/24/2015 12:19pm
JMR1976 wrote:
Good luck!
Thank you , do you think I will need it ?
I was wishing the op good luck. Not you.
5/24/2015 12:25pm
JMR1976 wrote:
Good luck!
Thank you , do you think I will need it ?
JMR1976 wrote:
I was wishing the op good luck. Not you.
Ha Ha Yeah , good call , with bullshit like that , I guess HE will need it ,

OnRails
Posts
223
Joined
12/5/2013
Location
CA
5/24/2015 12:27pm
Cool thread. Haven't seen this before.
Fat Fingers
Posts
858
Joined
7/18/2009
Location
Auckland NZ
5/24/2015 12:46pm
It's a bit like smoking is bad for you argument that went on for years. The evidence keeps on getting more and more conclusive but still people choose not to see it.
Sideways
Posts
1877
Joined
9/8/2012
Location
SE
5/24/2015 12:52pm
Alucard wrote:
Agreed... AMA vs GP enough already, and the first post does nothing but put some other fire into the never ending discussion, with a clear bias...
Agreed... AMA vs GP enough already, and the first post does nothing but put some other fire into the never ending discussion, with a clear bias for AMA's riders...
exactly. Hilarious!
Stefan82
Posts
559
Joined
11/10/2013
Location
NL
5/24/2015 1:02pm
Stefan82 wrote:
It is just strange that you rate an National Championship higher than a World Championship.
Kawi15 wrote:
Why are you suggesting that just because it says World Championship that somehow it is greater?
The World Championship is not held in one country, does not have 98% Americans at the gate.
ML512
Posts
15458
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
5/24/2015 1:05pm
Fuck off , more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year...
Fuck off ,

more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year or so towards the euro riders .

I am at the risk of sounding like a stuck record , but for fucks sake , just take a look at your post ,

RV does well despite set up issues , but you STILL cannot give De salle the same acknowledgement for his performance in some one off national rides .

Osborne , was challenging for the wins on a regular basis , really ???

I personally think the MXDN results are more of an indicator , all the bullshit we hear now about why the US have not won , is nothing different to what the likes of Bailey , Johnson , O,mara faced in years gone by , and it did not stop them from doing the business did it ??

You talk about facts , well , just look at the results , they don't lie , and are the facts !!


You should really work on your responses.
bsharkey
Posts
2163
Joined
6/16/2014
Location
Marysville, WA US
5/24/2015 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2015 1:09pm
karsmakers wrote:
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts: It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach...
Jesus...boith sides of the pond drone on and on about results. Here are the facts:

It takes a couple years when you switch series to reach your potential...we knew Kenny and Marvin were not 4th and 5th place guys but that's what they got coming over here after world championships. Three -four years later they have adjusted and are now where they belong.

Zach Osborne wen't over to the Gp's not having any options over here and within a few years was challenging for wins and a top rider. He comes back to the AMA series and has struggled.

Pourcel has been fast in both series because he has spent years adapting to both series.

RV has shown good speed and won or been within 4-10 seconds of winning despite some settup issues. Does anyone really believe he wouldn't challenge for a championship after a few years to adjust?

De Salle has come over and been a top 5 guy in the few AMA races but was behind RV by quite a bit.

Covington is doing better his second year in and will continue to progress.....it takes time people

The MXDN also shows this to be true....when has the USA lost this race on a AMA track? That's right ...never. So every year we go over to Europe a moth after our series is over and have to race against the 30-35 best of the Gp series with just three of our riders on their circuit and if we don't win some dumb asses assume the riders aren't as good. WTF? When have you won on our soil?

The bottom line is that both series kick ass and require an adjustment period of not just a random race or two but a few years to reach your potential speed in the series. History... attiutudes and ego's say so. A rider cannot be judged in one race or one year....it takes a few years to adapt for their speed to show up. Right?
rompin87 wrote:
'euros' have been trying to get that point across for as long as I can remember in here, but were always shot down...... B class.....slow ass...
'euros' have been trying to get that point across for as long as I can remember in here, but were always shot down......
B class.....slow ass euros.....2nd rate.....
Never like to get in these shit fest ama v gp cause I don't really give a shit.
motocross is motocross. The end
Ps not having a pop at you just saying in general.
the only people who say that truly do not follow both series. in all honesty the gps riders should be better outdoors. that's ALL they do EVERY year.
h&m_cycle
Posts
4412
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH US
5/24/2015 1:19pm
It's all good, my fellow Americans, really enjoyed the battle for the lead in MX2 this morning... 2 laps to go guys are battling,
Herlings was in 3rd, Jeffery made one hell of a pass around both to get the win.

I used to say, "watching road racing was like watching grass grow", not anymore, at least not on TV. MotoGP action is hard to
beat... I can't believe all the passes in Moto3...
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics GB
5/24/2015 1:30pm
karsmakers wrote:
I would say that the rougher and more challenging the track the more the riders get spread out. Hangtown and Glen Helen were extremely challenging tracks...
I would say that the rougher and more challenging the track the more the riders get spread out. Hangtown and Glen Helen were extremely challenging tracks so the field was more spread out. I also watched the British GP and the racing was closer but the track was less challenging than other GP tracks. So your opinion is valid but it may partially be due to track difficulty. Also, in tha AMA series there are 40 riders in a class but only 15-20 factory rides so the last 20 riders are considerably slower than the top 20. The gp series has 20 or so riders so all are relatively quick and have factory support. It all ends up fairly equal
It will be interesting to see when the GP goes to Glen Helen whether the gaps are stretched out a bit more or if they stay the same. I do rate the GP series slightly higher at the moment, the racing has been absolutely incredible all season, and all the guys are pushing each other to a new level. It's really awesome to watch
5/24/2015 1:40pm
ML512 wrote:
You should really work on your responses.
Apologies for the language , but it really gets my goat that over the past "god knows how many years" , us euros have always given the US riders the credit they deserve for being the better riders in general , but now the boot is on the other foot , all we hear is excuses as to why the current crop of US riders are not getting it done !

These things come in cycles like most things and it won,t be long before we get our arse kicked again , but for now , lets just give credit were its due !
63mark
Posts
363
Joined
7/31/2014
Location
Oosterwolde NL
5/24/2015 2:01pm
Alucard wrote:
Agreed... AMA vs GP enough already, and the first post does nothing but put some other fire into the never ending discussion, with a clear bias...
Agreed... AMA vs GP enough already, and the first post does nothing but put some other fire into the never ending discussion, with a clear bias for AMA's riders...
Sideways wrote:
exactly. Hilarious!
Hahaha!
+1
pilotdude
Posts
3755
Joined
1/12/2009
Location
Vancouver, WA US
5/24/2015 2:03pm
Stefan82 wrote:
It is just strange that you rate an National Championship higher than a World Championship.
Kawi15 wrote:
Why are you suggesting that just because it says World Championship that somehow it is greater?
Stefan82 wrote:
The World Championship is not held in one country, does not have 98% Americans at the gate.
The vast majority of races and riders on the GP circuit are now and have always been European, which is why so many people see them more as European championships. Look at your top 20 in points.

But believe me, I understand why some GP fans grow red faced and scream "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!" any time it is suggested that there might be better riders or a better series.

In fact many understand all too well.
63mark
Posts
363
Joined
7/31/2014
Location
Oosterwolde NL
5/24/2015 2:04pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2015 2:06pm
It's all motocross guys, both series are fast... just enjoy it!
5/24/2015 2:22pm
by the way of experiment to bring light into the darkness regarding that neverending discussion, I would like to chip in this little map Wink

MotoMalyDad
Posts
701
Joined
4/19/2012
Location
Santa Maria, CA US
5/24/2015 2:43pm
63mark wrote:
It's all motocross guys, both series are fast... just enjoy it!
Why do you want to upgrade this site and post something logical ? I do agree .
Old-Man
Posts
8021
Joined
10/21/2011
Location
Colorado springs, CO US
5/24/2015 2:45pm
2015 MXoN site?


Well how about the site for the 2016-17 as well?
Anyone?
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
5/24/2015 2:59pm
Fuck off , more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year...
Fuck off ,

more bullshit excuses from another tosser that just cannot accept that the motocross world has had a power shift over the past year or so towards the euro riders .

I am at the risk of sounding like a stuck record , but for fucks sake , just take a look at your post ,

RV does well despite set up issues , but you STILL cannot give De salle the same acknowledgement for his performance in some one off national rides .

Osborne , was challenging for the wins on a regular basis , really ???

I personally think the MXDN results are more of an indicator , all the bullshit we hear now about why the US have not won , is nothing different to what the likes of Bailey , Johnson , O,mara faced in years gone by , and it did not stop them from doing the business did it ??

You talk about facts , well , just look at the results , they don't lie , and are the facts !!


ML512 wrote:
You should really work on your responses.
Aside from him being so angry, His post was fairly accurate.
63mark
Posts
363
Joined
7/31/2014
Location
Oosterwolde NL
5/24/2015 3:05pm
63mark wrote:
It's all motocross guys, both series are fast... just enjoy it!
Why do you want to upgrade this site and post something logical ? I do agree .
Well, i do enjoy the discussion most of the time, tho some pricks are just making dumb posts, which is irritating meTongue
DP#201
Posts
600
Joined
1/31/2013
Location
Copenhagen DK
5/24/2015 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2015 3:14pm
Kawi15 wrote:
Why are you suggesting that just because it says World Championship that somehow it is greater?
Stefan82 wrote:
The World Championship is not held in one country, does not have 98% Americans at the gate.
pilotdude wrote:
The vast majority of races and riders on the GP circuit are now and have always been European, which is why so many people see them...
The vast majority of races and riders on the GP circuit are now and have always been European, which is why so many people see them more as European championships. Look at your top 20 in points.

But believe me, I understand why some GP fans grow red faced and scream "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!" any time it is suggested that there might be better riders or a better series.

In fact many understand all too well.
Hey.. I just looked at the top 20, but it was unnesesary, couse alone in the top 10 there are riders from Europe as you point out, but also from Russia, the US, GB And if you go top 20 there are also aussies... Whats your point again??
Edit: there are actualy aussies AND South africans also in the top 10..
zehn
Posts
7258
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK US
5/24/2015 3:13pm
Stefan82 wrote:
The World Championship is not held in one country, does not have 98% Americans at the gate.
pilotdude wrote:
The vast majority of races and riders on the GP circuit are now and have always been European, which is why so many people see them...
The vast majority of races and riders on the GP circuit are now and have always been European, which is why so many people see them more as European championships. Look at your top 20 in points.

But believe me, I understand why some GP fans grow red faced and scream "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!" any time it is suggested that there might be better riders or a better series.

In fact many understand all too well.
DP#201 wrote:
Hey.. I just looked at the top 20, but it was unnesesary, couse alone in the top 10 there are riders from Europe as you point...
Hey.. I just looked at the top 20, but it was unnesesary, couse alone in the top 10 there are riders from Europe as you point out, but also from Russia, the US, GB And if you go top 20 there are also aussies... Whats your point again??
Edit: there are actualy aussies AND South africans also in the top 10..
Last time I checked, Russia (partially) sits in Europe, and Great Britain is considered part of Europe as well (except by the Brits).

Post a reply to: AMA vs GP enough already!

The Latest