AMA vs FIM Drug Testing?

smc916
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Edited Date/Time 9/6/2014 4:36pm
Do they share the same testing policies, or is one more strict than the other?
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Team Euro
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5/31/2010 9:34am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2010 9:34am
Coppins had to sit out a period during his prime for using allergy inhaler
RACEGUY
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5/31/2010 9:53am
Kornel Nemeth got busted by FIM for having something (non performance-enhancing) in his system.
Team Euro
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5/31/2010 9:56am
They are tough, wonder if the AMA would set a top drawing rider down for a infraction, like illegal gas etc....
RACEGUY
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5/31/2010 10:02am
Illegal gas? Hell, that would never happen.

I, personally loved the call-out for testing during the SX series. They hit Canard, Dungey, and Hill. That was almost ... no, it WAS ...comical.

At best, they had a 33% chance at success. (what are they gonna find in Canard's system, pudding?)

The Shop

smc916
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5/31/2010 10:05am
We just don't hear about any consistent testing policies for PED's etc....in AMA, like like there are in most other sports.
Alex
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5/31/2010 10:13am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:15pm
- (what are they gonna find in Canard's system, pudding?)



Laughing



maybe if they test Zach they might find hes been abusing that performance enhancing milk and cookies






5/31/2010 10:23am
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the international cycling standards that have proven to be foul-able.
Team Euro
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5/31/2010 10:36am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:15pm
TripleFive wrote:
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the...
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the international cycling standards that have proven to be foul-able.
keeps a lot of testing companies in business though, that`s good , right?BlinkWassat
RACEGUY
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5/31/2010 10:41am
They are simply paying lip-service to the idea of "clean" athletes, just as the AMA has done with sound testing.
mom241
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5/31/2010 12:30pm
RACEGUY wrote:
Illegal gas? Hell, that would never happen. I, personally loved the call-out for testing during the SX series. They hit Canard, Dungey, and Hill. That was...
Illegal gas? Hell, that would never happen.

I, personally loved the call-out for testing during the SX series. They hit Canard, Dungey, and Hill. That was almost ... no, it WAS ...comical.

At best, they had a 33% chance at success. (what are they gonna find in Canard's system, pudding?)
Sometimes I don't like what you say, But that is funny!!!
5/31/2010 12:39pm
RACEGUY wrote:
Illegal gas? Hell, that would never happen. I, personally loved the call-out for testing during the SX series. They hit Canard, Dungey, and Hill. That was...
Illegal gas? Hell, that would never happen.

I, personally loved the call-out for testing during the SX series. They hit Canard, Dungey, and Hill. That was almost ... no, it WAS ...comical.

At best, they had a 33% chance at success. (what are they gonna find in Canard's system, pudding?)
mom241 wrote:
Sometimes I don't like what you say, But that is funny!!!
I have to agree with mom on this, well both parts,,, i got a good laugh out of the pudding part Laughing good one RACE GUY
DanDunes818
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5/31/2010 1:17pm
Look at that 1st pic up top. 3 KTM's have a wheel on every one. The need to test those KTM's for PED's IMO.
WideOpen
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5/31/2010 1:25pm
Team Euro wrote:
They are tough, wonder if the AMA would set a top drawing rider down for a infraction, like illegal gas etc....
Nope, But they will try and steal a championship for illegal gas. They tried and failed with Reed in 04 and succeeded in 06 with Stewart.
Team Euro
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5/31/2010 1:50pm
Team Euro wrote:
They are tough, wonder if the AMA would set a top drawing rider down for a infraction, like illegal gas etc....
WideOpen wrote:
Nope, But they will try and steal a championship for illegal gas. They tried and failed with Reed in 04 and succeeded in 06 with Stewart.
That`s disgraceful stuff, they should of at least hit them cheaters in the pocketbook with a couple hundred dollar fine, that would teach them a lesson and send a message to all those privateers who cheat regularly because they know they are too big to fail.
RussS
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5/31/2010 6:43pm
RACEGUY wrote:
They are simply paying lip-service to the idea of "clean" athletes, just as the AMA has done with sound testing.
Correct
mx.jah
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6/1/2010 6:32am
I think the FIM is doing it a bit more seriously. Coppins, Nemeth, Mckenzie a couple years ago... Back in 2000 something Federici even got busted for using blow during off weekends.

In AMA, when is the last time somebody got in trouble??? Let's ask Ping or DV12 what they think about it.

On top of that, all the body building bullshit products, supervitamins etc that you can get in stores in the Us aren't allowed in most of europe, so even the rules are not the same.


Just for J. Sloan, pot isn't a PED. Who cares if Hill is high as a kite.
ocscottie
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6/1/2010 6:40am
mx.jah wrote:
I think the FIM is doing it a bit more seriously. Coppins, Nemeth, Mckenzie a couple years ago... Back in 2000 something Federici even got busted...
I think the FIM is doing it a bit more seriously. Coppins, Nemeth, Mckenzie a couple years ago... Back in 2000 something Federici even got busted for using blow during off weekends.

In AMA, when is the last time somebody got in trouble??? Let's ask Ping or DV12 what they think about it.

On top of that, all the body building bullshit products, supervitamins etc that you can get in stores in the Us aren't allowed in most of europe, so even the rules are not the same.


Just for J. Sloan, pot isn't a PED. Who cares if Hill is high as a kite.
"I think the FIM is doing it a bit more seriously."

I am not sure if it was this year or last, but all SX riders now also have to sign an FIM anti doping policy that is carried about by WADA. Testing is random and they dont know when/what races they are going to show up at.

In the past the AMA testing was only for recreational drugs. But now that they are also under the FIM, its a whole different ballgame.
Shenzi
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6/1/2010 6:45am
ocscottie wrote:
[i]"I think the FIM is doing it a bit more seriously."[/i] I am not sure if it was this year or last, but all SX riders...
"I think the FIM is doing it a bit more seriously."

I am not sure if it was this year or last, but all SX riders now also have to sign an FIM anti doping policy that is carried about by WADA. Testing is random and they dont know when/what races they are going to show up at.

In the past the AMA testing was only for recreational drugs. But now that they are also under the FIM, its a whole different ballgame.
yes, the 450 SX series is an FIM series and FIM anti-doping rules and test applies. For the rest it's all about pot. Pot is harmless compared to what maybe some maybe taking.

Not sure anyone wants to catch anyone though...
ocscottie
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6/1/2010 7:13am
Oh ya, i forgot to add in that its only for the 450SX class. Was this year the 1st year, or did it start in 09?
RACEGUY
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6/1/2010 9:07am
rmpilot wrote:
id say dont test for anything
I'd say you'd probably flunk a test or two yourself.
rmpilot
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6/1/2010 9:41am
rmpilot wrote:
id say dont test for anything
RACEGUY wrote:
I'd say you'd probably flunk a test or two yourself.
actually no, i can honestly say ive never done an illegal drug. i should have elaborated on what i was saying. the tests will always be beat by anyone that wants to they are worthless. i personally lean towards everything being legal because you shouldnt regulate what someone does to themselves and also where do you draw the line?
9/4/2014 5:47pm
I agree with no testing, In bicycle racing and other olympic sports doping actually can make a big difference. But in MX its much more ability than stamina that makes the difference. If someone like Brayton or Short started doping would they immediately leave Roczen and Dungey in the dust? Short and Brayton are great riders but I don't think doping alone would make them dominate. All the top riders are in fantastic shape. If they raced for 100 miles it might make a difference but come on, it's a 30 minute moto. It's just one more stupid rule to have to deal with. Can't we just race and get on with it?
9/4/2014 6:21pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 6:30pm
TripleFive wrote:
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the...
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the international cycling standards that have proven to be foul-able.
You people are clueless. AMA / MX Sports uses USADA. FIM / FELD uses WADA. USADA is a WADA signatory. USADA and WADA have the same banned list, the same TUE procedures, the same sanction guidelines, the same test standards.

The only input that the promoters and sanctioning bodies have is what the level of testing is (urine or full blood) and at which events they test at. Both of these are money issues. Once the test samples are taken, it is out of the sanctioning body and promoters hands. This includes sanctions, as you will soon see when JS7 gets a 1 or 2 year ban from WADA (unless FELD decides to stick up for him, and break from having a sanctioning body). Once the test samples are coded, they go to a lab, and they are handled no differently than they would be for an Olympic athlete or Tour deFrance cyclist for a given test type.

Where do you people come up with these conclusions? All it takes is some basic research into how USADA and WADA function to know how this all works.

In the last year I believe that FELD/SX only did urine. MX sports did blood at Lakewood, and urine at Unadilla. So in that respect, the MX Sports testing was more stringent. Also, both Dungey and RV have been on the WADA watch list in the past. In the year period they were on the list, each was tested at least once...full blood screen.
9/4/2014 6:33pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 6:35pm
I agree with no testing, In bicycle racing and other olympic sports doping actually can make a big difference. But in MX its much more ability...
I agree with no testing, In bicycle racing and other olympic sports doping actually can make a big difference. But in MX its much more ability than stamina that makes the difference. If someone like Brayton or Short started doping would they immediately leave Roczen and Dungey in the dust? Short and Brayton are great riders but I don't think doping alone would make them dominate. All the top riders are in fantastic shape. If they raced for 100 miles it might make a difference but come on, it's a 30 minute moto. It's just one more stupid rule to have to deal with. Can't we just race and get on with it?
Exactly. If there were riders that could keep up with RV at the start, but then they fell back as the race progressed, there might be some logic to arguing that RV was using PEDs. But that is not the case. RV waxes them right off the line every time. They just dont have his speed. RV is faster because of his skill.

Also...isn't strange how the fast guys now...were the fast guys on minis? I guess they were all doping in Jr high too?

I can not imagine how anyone will conclude that JS7 getting a 12-24 month ban will be good for the sport. Love him or hate him, he is a huge wild card. You never know what you will get. It could be a bobble and a DNF....or a mind blowing ride like Toronto where he is doing things no one else can. It is just sad.
CR250Rider
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9/4/2014 6:34pm
I was subjected to random drug tests for 25 years.

Fair for 1 fair for all
9/4/2014 7:27pm
TripleFive wrote:
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the...
The riders that are doping are three steps ahead of the game. The testing policies of the FIM and AMA are a joke compared to the international cycling standards that have proven to be foul-able.
You people are clueless. AMA / MX Sports uses USADA. FIM / FELD uses WADA. USADA is a WADA signatory. USADA and WADA have the same...
You people are clueless. AMA / MX Sports uses USADA. FIM / FELD uses WADA. USADA is a WADA signatory. USADA and WADA have the same banned list, the same TUE procedures, the same sanction guidelines, the same test standards.

The only input that the promoters and sanctioning bodies have is what the level of testing is (urine or full blood) and at which events they test at. Both of these are money issues. Once the test samples are taken, it is out of the sanctioning body and promoters hands. This includes sanctions, as you will soon see when JS7 gets a 1 or 2 year ban from WADA (unless FELD decides to stick up for him, and break from having a sanctioning body). Once the test samples are coded, they go to a lab, and they are handled no differently than they would be for an Olympic athlete or Tour deFrance cyclist for a given test type.

Where do you people come up with these conclusions? All it takes is some basic research into how USADA and WADA function to know how this all works.

In the last year I believe that FELD/SX only did urine. MX sports did blood at Lakewood, and urine at Unadilla. So in that respect, the MX Sports testing was more stringent. Also, both Dungey and RV have been on the WADA watch list in the past. In the year period they were on the list, each was tested at least once...full blood screen.
Your clueless, like you normally are in all the drug testing posts.

FIM is gonna decide the penalty, WADA provides the guidelines. I literally talked to a FELD promoter and thats what he told me.
9/4/2014 7:38pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 7:48pm
Do you know what happens when a sanctioning body chooses not to follow the WADA guidelines? If there are examples of a sanctioning body passing down a dramatically lesser penalty with no consequances, then I will stand corrected in my cluelessnes.

Feld certainly has an interest in seeing a lesser penalty. I have not heard of cases where a severe WADA penalty was ignored by a sanctioning body without serious consequences (ie, WADA parting ways with them) to the sanctioning body. You think FIM is really going to get sideways with WADA to protect Stew? There have been some issues like this in the boxing world.

I hope that the interests of FELD weigh in on the penalty, but what the FELD representative told you does not rule out a severe penalty. Where is the FIM based? Where is WADA based? How important is FELD, a Monster Truck Jam and Circus promoter to them?

As to all my other points, if I am clueless, please comment on my errors. Don't bring weak ass ad hominem attacks while failing to offer counter points. Step up and explain where I am wrong.

Here is what I have stated:
1. The AMA and FIM have contracted with USADA and WADA, 3rd party ADOs.
2. AMA and FIM do not have testing programs. They have bought the 3rd party programs of ADOs.
3. The samples are taken by USADA and WADA staff.
4. They are coded and set to USADA/WADA approved labs.
5. The samples are tested to standards the same as for any other WADA / USADA tested athlete, such as an Olympian.
6. The UCI has less credibility than USADA and WADA, not more, in light of their decades of corruption due to conflict of interests.
7. The fact that the UCI has an ABP program, and MX Sports can not afford to implement WADAs ABP program does not mean the AMA program has less credibility. The UCI failures in the past were not failures of technology, they were failures of corruption and conflict of interest.

Please tell me where I am clueless.

9/4/2014 7:44pm
Do you know what happens when a sanctioning body chooses not to follow the WADA guidelines? If there are examples of a sanctioning body passing down...
Do you know what happens when a sanctioning body chooses not to follow the WADA guidelines? If there are examples of a sanctioning body passing down a dramatically lesser penalty with no consequances, then I will stand corrected in my cluelessnes.

Feld certainly has an interest in seeing a lesser penalty. I have not heard of cases where a severe WADA penalty was ignored by a sanctioning body without serious consequences (ie, WADA parting ways with them) to the sanctioning body. You think FIM is really going to get sideways with WADA to protect Stew? There have been some issues like this in the boxing world.

I hope that the interests of FELD weigh in on the penalty, but what the FELD representative told you does not rule out a severe penalty. Where is the FIM based? Where is WADA based? How important is FELD, a Monster Truck Jam and Circus promoter to them?

As to all my other points, if I am clueless, please comment on my errors. Don't bring weak ass ad hominem attacks while failing to offer counter points. Step up and explain where I am wrong.

Here is what I have stated:
1. The AMA and FIM have contracted with USADA and WADA, 3rd party ADOs.
2. AMA and FIM do not have testing programs. They have bought the 3rd party programs of ADOs.
3. The samples are taken by USADA and WADA staff.
4. They are coded and set to USADA/WADA approved labs.
5. The samples are tested to standards the same as for any other WADA / USADA tested athlete, such as an Olympian.
6. The UCI has less credibility than USADA and WADA, not more, in light of their decades of corruption due to conflict of interests.
7. The fact that the UCI has an ABP program, and MX Sports can not afford to implement WADAs ABP program does not mean the AMA program has less credibility. The UCI failures in the past were not failures of technology, they were failures of corruption and conflict of interest.

Please tell me where I am clueless.

WADA does not have the right to decide a penalty in supercross. They do in olympics and a bunch of other sports but the contract they have with FIM allows FIM to have the final say. WADA can help do everything up until the moment the penalty is given, that is where the FIM gather everything WADA has given and told them and they assign a penalty they think is worth.

In there case, FIM would not be going against what WADA says because WADA helps FIM with what they will say.

Ive heard things of a 2 year ban, but talking to the promoter he told me that there is nothing right now and apparently all papers have been filled and are being reviewed.

Its a waiting game.
9/4/2014 7:54pm
Do you know what happens when a sanctioning body chooses not to follow the WADA guidelines? If there are examples of a sanctioning body passing down...
Do you know what happens when a sanctioning body chooses not to follow the WADA guidelines? If there are examples of a sanctioning body passing down a dramatically lesser penalty with no consequances, then I will stand corrected in my cluelessnes.

Feld certainly has an interest in seeing a lesser penalty. I have not heard of cases where a severe WADA penalty was ignored by a sanctioning body without serious consequences (ie, WADA parting ways with them) to the sanctioning body. You think FIM is really going to get sideways with WADA to protect Stew? There have been some issues like this in the boxing world.

I hope that the interests of FELD weigh in on the penalty, but what the FELD representative told you does not rule out a severe penalty. Where is the FIM based? Where is WADA based? How important is FELD, a Monster Truck Jam and Circus promoter to them?

As to all my other points, if I am clueless, please comment on my errors. Don't bring weak ass ad hominem attacks while failing to offer counter points. Step up and explain where I am wrong.

Here is what I have stated:
1. The AMA and FIM have contracted with USADA and WADA, 3rd party ADOs.
2. AMA and FIM do not have testing programs. They have bought the 3rd party programs of ADOs.
3. The samples are taken by USADA and WADA staff.
4. They are coded and set to USADA/WADA approved labs.
5. The samples are tested to standards the same as for any other WADA / USADA tested athlete, such as an Olympian.
6. The UCI has less credibility than USADA and WADA, not more, in light of their decades of corruption due to conflict of interests.
7. The fact that the UCI has an ABP program, and MX Sports can not afford to implement WADAs ABP program does not mean the AMA program has less credibility. The UCI failures in the past were not failures of technology, they were failures of corruption and conflict of interest.

Please tell me where I am clueless.

As I understand it, the biological passport has been the tool that has cleaned up cycling. We don't have it. We have a handful (2?) of guys that are randomly tested around the calendar, urine testing at a very small number of events, and blood testing at even fewer.

Calling me clueless for pointing out the disparity in testing procedures is what started this straw man exchange. If you think there is equity between the two then you're nuts.

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