AMA again??

500 Mike
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500 Mike 7/8/2021 7:51am
7/8/2021 7:51am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2021 7:53am
I think it is unfair to allow the AMA Referee the latitude to assess a different penalty for how far someone jumps on a red cross flag. If it's wheels on the ground, it's wheels on the ground, period. Make the penalty X, for that infraction and be done with it. The way it is now allows the ref to single out a rider he doesn't like to impose a bigger penalty. I hope this would never happen but the way the rule is written now it leaves that possibility open. I am a Roczen fan and agree he should have been penalized for jumping on the red cross flag (there is no way they should have missed both of these flags), but to give him a bigger penalty for jumping farther seems crazy.
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McG194
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McG194 7/8/2021 10:20am
7/8/2021 10:20am
TXDirt wrote:
The red cross flag was out. It was obvious. Ferandis saw it and tried to check up. He didn’t attempt to clear the table. Kenny on...
The red cross flag was out. It was obvious. Ferandis saw it and tried to check up. He didn’t attempt to clear the table. Kenny on the other hand just said fuck it I guess and jumped like normal.

I knew instantly he was going to be penalized.

Someone sit Kenny down and go over the flags. Been an issue for him several times.
I think it was more a case of Kenny saw DF somewhat jump it and said "Screw it, I'm not losing track position, he jumped it so it must have cleared." and he sent it.

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Markee
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Markee 7/8/2021 10:26am
7/8/2021 10:26am
bigk218 wrote:
Shoot if that’s the case and I’m sitting fourth in a tight battle I’m sending it over that jump. A wins a win and I’m Sure...
Shoot if that’s the case and I’m sitting fourth in a tight battle I’m sending it over that jump. A wins a win and I’m Sure a race bonus is worth a point or two. Now the expectations are set.
KirkChandler wrote:
It’s at the discretion of the race director, they would also have the discretion to disqualify someone if it was egregious. The problem I have is...
It’s at the discretion of the race director, they would also have the discretion to disqualify someone if it was egregious.

The problem I have is the inconsistency from one series to the next, in other sports you know what the penalty is when the infraction is committed.

In F1 or MotoGP they will know they have a time penalty or a long lap penalty during the race and they can race forward knowing they can make up the 5 seconds on track. So you can still salavage the race.

In the AMA there is no recourse for the rider, you mess up and you are at the mercy of the race director after the event. I’m sure Kenny knew something was going to happen as soon as he was in the air, but what? Position penalty? Points? Position plus a point, 2 point? It’s the unknown and inconsistency that’s the issue.

Also the inconsistency of the location of the WOG or red cross flags, they move with the course marshals. They should be in a position that doesn’t change and is clearly visible. Maybe instead of a person that has multiple tasks to monitor during the event, it’s a dedicated flashing strobe light on the jump that you can’t miss. Just ideas. I know it’s not easy.
DC wrote:
I don't believe the part about them moving around and having multiple tasks is accurate, Kirk. The officials decide where to place them and they stay...
I don't believe the part about them moving around and having multiple tasks is accurate, Kirk. The officials decide where to place them and they stay there. But it takes a second for the official on the back side of a big blind jump like that to radio his partner on the other side and get the flags out and the lights on (if its one of six spots with the 12 caution lights). RedBud is an amazing track but it's also very big and has multiple big jumps, so it's a challenge to get everything covered, and I can't remember someone ever crashing where Wilson crashed... The leaders got there quickly, but the flags were out and visible.

One other thing: I believe the reason the head flagger missed Ferrandis with the white flag was because he was trying to see what was happening over on the jump to find out if the race needed stopped all together. Human error can and will happen, but thankfully everything worked out, and I hope Deano is okay. Scary to see him laying on the track like that.

DC
Racer X
Flaggers have radios, riders don't.
loftyair
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loftyair 7/8/2021 10:44am
7/8/2021 10:44am
Make it a time penalty. Do something stupid that makes up time, get docked double that time.

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dboivin
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dboivin 7/8/2021 11:08am
7/8/2021 11:08am
i think they should be black flagged. obvious disregard of red cross flag IMO. set the example. some riders future can and will be end result of someone ignoring that flag eventually. Don't really care who it is that ignores or what championship on the line. could be my favorite rider....still encourage to be black flagged.
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DonM
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DonM 7/8/2021 12:19pm
7/8/2021 12:19pm
dboivin wrote:
i think they should be black flagged. obvious disregard of red cross flag IMO. set the example. some riders future can and will be end result...
i think they should be black flagged. obvious disregard of red cross flag IMO. set the example. some riders future can and will be end result of someone ignoring that flag eventually. Don't really care who it is that ignores or what championship on the line. could be my favorite rider....still encourage to be black flagged.
I agree somewhat as the rules are the rules…but at the same time a flagger needs to know his surroundings and positioning…in this instance the first Red Cross flagger was in the best possible position while the second one was wrong, he should have been where the yellow flag was and the yellow flagger should have been where the second Red Cross flagger was…if that was the case and they still jumped then I’m all for a harsher penalty
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jasonv43
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jasonv43 7/8/2021 12:49pm
7/8/2021 12:49pm
If only the riders had communications in their helmets for stuff like this.Pinch
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yota
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yota 7/8/2021 1:09pm
7/8/2021 1:09pm
these guys are professionals, some of the best in the world. it is their job to see these flags and I don't believe Roczen has tunnel vision.
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wardy
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wardy 7/8/2021 11:52pm
7/8/2021 11:52pm
jasonv43 wrote:
If only the riders had communications in their helmets for stuff like this.Pinch
exactly why the hell don't they have a way to be told "rider down jump (#)" etc. 2021. Lights and flags been around for a long time. most all vehicle type racing has communication process.

Telling a rider would add to the safety of the staff, ridership and medical crews.


will add.

anytime you see a flagger waving a flag and running to a better place to be seen, there is something that needs adjusted. (not in this case but general)
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yak651
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yak651 7/9/2021 5:47am
7/9/2021 5:47am
Maybe if pro riders weren't allowed to ignore a yellow flag they wouldn't be so apt to ignore the red cross??

Anyhow, having a different penalty for the same infraction is BS and makes the AMA/Promoter look like they have it out for one rider over another (even if that's not the case it's the perception).

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