AMA Sanction race rule question

racer369
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Can a rider ride a 250f in moto 1 Then come back for moto 2 with a 450F?
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kzizok
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9/18/2016 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2016 4:51pm
Ive never heard that was allowable in AMA events. Some events take your frame number in staging of the first moto and then checks for a match before the second moto. You are to compete on the bike of the first moto and shouldnt compete on any other regardless of size, brand etc.
Why would you want to?
dboivin
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9/18/2016 4:50pm
not supposed to. i think if you get down to the rules, you supposed to use the bike you started with. as in if you blew one up, you technically can't go grab a buddies and go back out in next moto with another bike. now albeit would be pretty shitty to protest someone on that but i think when your down to brass tacks...its against the rules...and being everything is so lax at most races it would be hard to prove someone was not on their original bike.

about only thing that enforces such rules are area/regional and nationals.
racer369
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9/18/2016 5:00pm
kzizok wrote:
Ive never heard that was allowable in AMA events. Some events take your frame number in staging of the first moto and then checks for a...
Ive never heard that was allowable in AMA events. Some events take your frame number in staging of the first moto and then checks for a match before the second moto. You are to compete on the bike of the first moto and shouldnt compete on any other regardless of size, brand etc.
Why would you want to?
he got smoked first moto
racer369
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9/18/2016 5:02pm
It was brought to the attention of "the AMA official" before the second moto started. Her said it was legal. We don't think so!

The Shop

burn1986
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9/18/2016 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2016 6:31pm
I thought it was 251cc - 450cc in AMA Pro Racing. I'm sure its different in the Amateurs.
Grizz
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9/18/2016 6:42pm
You have to ride the same bike both motos.
mattyhamz2
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9/18/2016 6:46pm
i raced a guy through a series and at round 4 he rode a 250f in one Moto and got smoked. Second Moto he switched to a 250 2 stroke and won. Some how he got away with it. I was pissed
JustMX
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9/18/2016 6:46pm
Not allowed to switch bikes after the first Moto (or after qualifier in "stadium style motocross" format.

The problem is that officials have no way to confirm that a switch was done unless it is something like a different brand or the rider admits that he did it. Even if you have it on video it would be hard to confirm a switch unless it was completely obvious. And since ama has not addressed the use of video review some officials may very well refuse to even look at it.

Frame numbers are hardly ever recorded except at area and regional qualifiers.


racer369
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9/18/2016 6:51pm
JustMX wrote:
Not allowed to switch bikes after the first Moto (or after qualifier in "stadium style motocross" format. The problem is that officials have no way to...
Not allowed to switch bikes after the first Moto (or after qualifier in "stadium style motocross" format.

The problem is that officials have no way to confirm that a switch was done unless it is something like a different brand or the rider admits that he did it. Even if you have it on video it would be hard to confirm a switch unless it was completely obvious. And since ama has not addressed the use of video review some officials may very well refuse to even look at it.

Frame numbers are hardly ever recorded except at area and regional qualifiers.


Easy to tell KTM 250f was white ktm 450f was orange.
kzizok
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9/18/2016 6:59pm
Rules are just words on paper unless enforced. Sounds like they just didnt want to mess with it.
Braap19
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9/18/2016 8:50pm
kzizok wrote:
Rules are just words on paper unless enforced. Sounds like they just didnt want to mess with it.
This is very true. I have raced at regionals in the B class on an entirely illegal bike and done well with no repercussions.

Even if it is against the rules, it doesn't matter if they don't do anything to people who break it.
racer369
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9/19/2016 6:03am
kzizok wrote:
Rules are just words on paper unless enforced. Sounds like they just didnt want to mess with it.
He(AMA guy) got right up in my face saying it is legal.
KMC440
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9/19/2016 6:53am
kzizok wrote:
Rules are just words on paper unless enforced. Sounds like they just didnt want to mess with it.
racer369 wrote:
He(AMA guy) got right up in my face saying it is legal.
That "official" obviously doesn't know this one simple rule that's been around forever. Pretty ridiculous actually.
JustMX
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9/19/2016 6:56am Edited Date/Time 9/19/2016 7:05am
kzizok wrote:
Rules are just words on paper unless enforced. Sounds like they just didnt want to mess with it.
racer369 wrote:
He(AMA guy) got right up in my face saying it is legal.
Then you should get a copy of the rule book and show him he is misinformed.

There are a lot of things people think are rules that aren't, and a lot of rules that are not enforced.

Where in the am rulebook does it say no tools are allowed to prep starting pads?

Is there a rule the forbids riders from going in front of their starting gate?

If you want the rules enforced you should know what they are.

There are some events that have supplemental rules that deviate some from the rule book, but when that is the case they have to try to inform participants that the rules are different.

An example would be that the second gate on a staggered start does not get a hold if they have a problem after the first gate starts.
9/19/2016 8:10am
JustMX wrote:
Then you should get a copy of the rule book and show him he is misinformed. There are a lot of things people think are rules...
Then you should get a copy of the rule book and show him he is misinformed.

There are a lot of things people think are rules that aren't, and a lot of rules that are not enforced.

Where in the am rulebook does it say no tools are allowed to prep starting pads?

Is there a rule the forbids riders from going in front of their starting gate?

If you want the rules enforced you should know what they are.

There are some events that have supplemental rules that deviate some from the rule book, but when that is the case they have to try to inform participants that the rules are different.

An example would be that the second gate on a staggered start does not get a hold if they have a problem after the first gate starts.
Page 28 number 6

No tools may be used to groom a rider's starting area,
only hands and feet may be used. Only dirt from within
the starting area may be used, no liquid may be added to
the rider's starting area. Grooming in front of the gate is
prohibited except when cement extends beyond the front
of the gate, in which case, a broom may be used on the
cement portion in front of the gate.
racer369
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9/19/2016 8:56am
From AMA rulebook. Page 30, section 4. Once an event has started, any change of motorcycle is FORBIDDEN.A rider will be disqualified from the moto for disreguarding this rule. Not applicable for vintage and post vintage MX.

Doesn't this mean "NO BIKE CHANGE FROM MOTO 1 TO MOTO 2"?
9/19/2016 9:03am
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before at an event, albeit not for results reasons but bike issues, not sure why it really matters at an amatuer event.
Cygnus
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9/19/2016 9:06am
racer369 wrote:
From AMA rulebook. Page 30, section 4. Once an event has started, any change of motorcycle is FORBIDDEN.A rider will be disqualified from the moto for...
From AMA rulebook. Page 30, section 4. Once an event has started, any change of motorcycle is FORBIDDEN.A rider will be disqualified from the moto for disreguarding this rule. Not applicable for vintage and post vintage MX.

Doesn't this mean "NO BIKE CHANGE FROM MOTO 1 TO MOTO 2"?
Yes and it's been a rule for as long as I remember.
racer369
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9/19/2016 9:40am
Now Im told they can change any rule they want. Its their race. Even though AMA sanctioned. O well, not going to any of this promotors races.
MarkF
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9/19/2016 10:38am
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before...
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before at an event, albeit not for results reasons but bike issues, not sure why it really matters at an amatuer event.
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the local level, it seems a bit harsh to send someone home because of a broken bike.
racer369
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9/19/2016 10:54am
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before...
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before at an event, albeit not for results reasons but bike issues, not sure why it really matters at an amatuer event.
Money class
racer369
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9/19/2016 10:55am
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before...
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before at an event, albeit not for results reasons but bike issues, not sure why it really matters at an amatuer event.
MarkF wrote:
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the...
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the local level, it seems a bit harsh to send someone home because of a broken bike.
Not a broken bike. He went from 250f to 450f. Uphill start and elevation changes. Does make a diff.
ed
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9/19/2016 5:11pm
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I will ever know and you were riding AMA races before I was born. LOL I'm 51 and started racing in 1971.
And you had never heard of supplemental rules?

Here it the simple truth.

Every event has supplemental rules that should be approved by the AMA. It is the promoter's responsibly to post such supplemental rules and have then available at each event. It is the riders responsibly to know the rules for the event he or she is riding.

In this case the rules are posted on the event/series website and are at the office of each event. You ask for said rules and had a copy handed to you on demand.
http://midamericamxseries.com/Mid_America_MX_Series_Rules.htm

If you ride a Loretta Lynn qualifier or at the national you need to read their supplemental rules that are here.
http://mxsports.com/pages/supplemental-rules

If you ride AMA D17 you need to know these rules...
http://www.amadistrict17.com/services/d-17webrulebook.htm

If you ride AMA D18 you need to know these rules...
http://district18racing.net/uploads/3/4/8/8/34884905/d18_supplemental_r…

Those rules can also be added to by what venue your at... Yes each track may also have supplemental rules...

If you want any more info please contact me at ed@lachanceracing.com or look up my phone number on the AMA website.

...........
Ed LaChance
Mid America Series AMA official
AMA Congressman
AMA Motocross rules Committee Member
AMA General Rules Committee Member
TeamGreen
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9/19/2016 5:45pm
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before...
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before at an event, albeit not for results reasons but bike issues, not sure why it really matters at an amatuer event.
MarkF wrote:
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the...
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the local level, it seems a bit harsh to send someone home because of a broken bike.
We lend bikes to guys that have bike issues on race day.

I once got beat by my own KX125 @ Saddleback.

It was awesome.
MarkF
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9/19/2016 6:29pm
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before...
Honestly though, who cares. If his bike was still legal why does it even matter, just because he won the second moto? I've done this before at an event, albeit not for results reasons but bike issues, not sure why it really matters at an amatuer event.
MarkF wrote:
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the...
I agree with you crashnburn. Here in Colorado we have secondary sanctioning bodies that supercede the AMA rules. It happens all the time here. At the local level, it seems a bit harsh to send someone home because of a broken bike.
TeamGreen wrote:
We lend bikes to guys that have bike issues on race day.

I once got beat by my own KX125 @ Saddleback.

It was awesome.
Ahh, Saddleback. The good ole days. I "wintered" in Villa Park about 4 miles from there in the early 80's. Good times.
fisher725
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9/19/2016 6:37pm
Crazy. Guess I didn't know that this was happening. I just always thought the rule was you had to race the same bike both motos.
imoto34
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9/19/2016 7:23pm
Same bike all moto's. People do ease around this and sometimes they will or will not have a problem with it.

I was lined up at a second moto 250B LL Regional and a guy beside me was on his 450 with black backgrounds.

So they had the black backgrounds for the 450 in the rig ready, but the first moto he was running yellow backgrounds on his 250.

If you think that you can get away without anyone noticing your wrong. If a good rider is on a 450, it will walk away on the start and sounds nothing like the small bore. You catch someone doing this?

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