AMA Riders Got Smoked Today...

inthebadboycorner 10/7/2018 3:16pm
10/7/2018 3:16pm
twotwosix wrote:
Hats off to the MXGP riders, they were the better, faster riders today in a foreign country on a foreign track. Props.
Johnny89superbike wrote:
Not all of the riders to beat the US guys were GP riders. I would never had thought that one of Australia's local riders would beat...
Not all of the riders to beat the US guys were GP riders. I would never had thought that one of Australia's local riders would beat Tomac & Barcia .... not once but twice!
It would have been interesting to see how Ferris would have faired.
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Motocross83 10/7/2018 3:26pm
10/7/2018 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 3:27pm
ob wrote:
Really? What happened last year when Herlings came for a quick visit. If I remember correctly he went from last to first on a borrowed bike...
Really? What happened last year when Herlings came for a quick visit. If I remember correctly he went from last to first on a borrowed bike on a AMA track. Just saying
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's irrelevant to my point.

What we're really getting at is why the AMA riders don't look to be riding anywhere near as fast as they can...
I think this probably bothers American fans more than the actual result. They want to at least see their lads riding to potential.

And the answer (as Iv'e outlined too many times - I'll stop banging on about it after this...) imo is the track preparation. Not pressure, or starts or any of that other stuff... Yes it no doubt played a factor, but again it isn't at heart of the true problem. How comfortable a rider feels is almost everything. It's huge.

This is why RJ Hampshire can beat the MX2 class fairly easily on one circuit, whilst the actual National 250 champ couldn't beat anyone (of note) on another... Same with Eli round Glen Helen vs today. The AMA riders can deal with one style of preparation but suffer to varying degrees (sometimes a lot, sometimes only a little) everywhere else.
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slamdmini
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slamdmini 10/7/2018 3:29pm
10/7/2018 3:29pm
the sad fact is our riders care more about the stupid monster energy cup next week, than they do about the mxon.
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TXDirt
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TXDirt 10/7/2018 3:29pm
10/7/2018 3:29pm
USA got waxed. No excuses.
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peltier626
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peltier626 10/7/2018 3:30pm
10/7/2018 3:30pm
ob wrote:
Really? What happened last year when Herlings came for a quick visit. If I remember correctly he went from last to first on a borrowed bike...
Really? What happened last year when Herlings came for a quick visit. If I remember correctly he went from last to first on a borrowed bike on a AMA track. Just saying
Motocross83 wrote:
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's...
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's irrelevant to my point.

What we're really getting at is why the AMA riders don't look to be riding anywhere near as fast as they can...
I think this probably bothers American fans more than the actual result. They want to at least see their lads riding to potential.

And the answer (as Iv'e outlined too many times - I'll stop banging on about it after this...) imo is the track preparation. Not pressure, or starts or any of that other stuff... Yes it no doubt played a factor, but again it isn't at heart of the true problem. How comfortable a rider feels is almost everything. It's huge.

This is why RJ Hampshire can beat the MX2 class fairly easily on one circuit, whilst the actual National 250 champ couldn't beat anyone (of note) on another... Same with Eli round Glen Helen vs today. The AMA riders can deal with one style of preparation but suffer to varying degrees (sometimes a lot, sometimes only a little) everywhere else.
This seems to be the case exactly. Varying track surfaces and conditions.
drt410
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drt410 10/7/2018 3:34pm
10/7/2018 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 3:45pm
I dont think sx is making them slower I think its making them too worried about getting injured before sx, because sx is the big money sport over here not mx so their real season is starting soon, so they dont want to risk anything before the biggest dirt bike series we have starts. Something was definitely off for Ferrandis to woop Plessinger. He just raced Ferrandis and essentially smoked him all year. I wonder if after the garbage day they had yesterday giving them the bad gate pics if that made them just say screw it and mail it in. I really think the biggest problem is the AMA racers dont care about pride and putting USA on top. They care about points paying races, the million dollars at Monster cup... and staying healthy for that big money paying Supercross series. I dont care if the top Euros are better we know for a fact that our guys are faster than they showed today. Something is going on. They just really seem to just not give a shit about mxon, as Eli has shown before, and they say screw this Im not getting hurt and screwing up supercross over this 1 day race for nothing. Its not nothing to us but in the grand scheme I think they can care less with more obligations around the corner, which is unfortunate for the fans. Plessinger crashing saturday while he was leading probably had him thinking man Im not trying to get hurt before sx.
hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 10/7/2018 3:50pm
10/7/2018 3:50pm
Motocross83 wrote:
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's...
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's irrelevant to my point.

What we're really getting at is why the AMA riders don't look to be riding anywhere near as fast as they can...
I think this probably bothers American fans more than the actual result. They want to at least see their lads riding to potential.

And the answer (as Iv'e outlined too many times - I'll stop banging on about it after this...) imo is the track preparation. Not pressure, or starts or any of that other stuff... Yes it no doubt played a factor, but again it isn't at heart of the true problem. How comfortable a rider feels is almost everything. It's huge.

This is why RJ Hampshire can beat the MX2 class fairly easily on one circuit, whilst the actual National 250 champ couldn't beat anyone (of note) on another... Same with Eli round Glen Helen vs today. The AMA riders can deal with one style of preparation but suffer to varying degrees (sometimes a lot, sometimes only a little) everywhere else.
Yes, I've said the same. The AMA tracks are all groomed to be very similar and in the past few years there is really very little variation between them. Southwick is "sand" but Red Bud and Millville have basically the same soil consistency now. Look at Hangtown, it's all soft and ripped compared to the hardpack it was in the 80s and 90s. This track consistency has made riders who race AMA motocross very poor at adapting to different conditions, and even adapting within a race. AMA racing has become pick your slot and ride it all day.
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St Ann More
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St Ann More 10/7/2018 4:04pm
10/7/2018 4:04pm
Ferrandis looked pretty damn good for an 'AMA Rider that got smoked'.
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Frère Jacques 10/7/2018 4:08pm
10/7/2018 4:08pm
St Ann More wrote:
Ferrandis looked pretty damn good for an 'AMA Rider that got smoked'.
yeah but even he didn't have much for riders from the allegedly soft MX2 class.
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St Ann More
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St Ann More 10/7/2018 4:08pm
10/7/2018 4:08pm
Motocross83 wrote:
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's...
Herlings is exceptional though, and Tomac had a title on his mind. But regardless of who beat who, and why they did or didn't etc, it's irrelevant to my point.

What we're really getting at is why the AMA riders don't look to be riding anywhere near as fast as they can...
I think this probably bothers American fans more than the actual result. They want to at least see their lads riding to potential.

And the answer (as Iv'e outlined too many times - I'll stop banging on about it after this...) imo is the track preparation. Not pressure, or starts or any of that other stuff... Yes it no doubt played a factor, but again it isn't at heart of the true problem. How comfortable a rider feels is almost everything. It's huge.

This is why RJ Hampshire can beat the MX2 class fairly easily on one circuit, whilst the actual National 250 champ couldn't beat anyone (of note) on another... Same with Eli round Glen Helen vs today. The AMA riders can deal with one style of preparation but suffer to varying degrees (sometimes a lot, sometimes only a little) everywhere else.
hamncheeze wrote:
Yes, I've said the same. The AMA tracks are all groomed to be very similar and in the past few years there is really very little...
Yes, I've said the same. The AMA tracks are all groomed to be very similar and in the past few years there is really very little variation between them. Southwick is "sand" but Red Bud and Millville have basically the same soil consistency now. Look at Hangtown, it's all soft and ripped compared to the hardpack it was in the 80s and 90s. This track consistency has made riders who race AMA motocross very poor at adapting to different conditions, and even adapting within a race. AMA racing has become pick your slot and ride it all day.
This!!!
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 10/7/2018 4:23pm
10/7/2018 4:23pm
St Ann More wrote:
Ferrandis looked pretty damn good for an 'AMA Rider that got smoked'.
Frère Jacques wrote:
yeah but even he didn't have much for riders from the allegedly soft MX2 class.
Yep, I think going in a lot of people would have said Plessinger and Ferrandis were the top of the MX2 heap, but today Prado, Lawrence and Watson were all better.
olds cool
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olds cool 10/7/2018 4:26pm
10/7/2018 4:26pm
JFerry wrote:
Next year selection is going to be fun.
Next year it'll be harder to get 3 guys to say yes to going and get an Assen whoopin' than getting somebody to agree to be a Supreme Court justice nominee.
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bsharkey
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bsharkey 10/7/2018 4:30pm
10/7/2018 4:30pm
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying to say is Fernandis has been in America for for quite some time now he rides both Supercross and Motocross but yet today he came through just fine. I know some of you won't like this and find it disrespectful but I think they need a different team manager someone who's young has enthusiasm I think Rodger is just too old. How about someone like Carmichael or Villopoto someone that's respected but still with the times
Motocross83 10/7/2018 4:38pm
10/7/2018 4:38pm
bsharkey wrote:
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying...
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying to say is Fernandis has been in America for for quite some time now he rides both Supercross and Motocross but yet today he came through just fine. I know some of you won't like this and find it disrespectful but I think they need a different team manager someone who's young has enthusiasm I think Rodger is just too old. How about someone like Carmichael or Villopoto someone that's respected but still with the times
Dylan came over in 2017 though, so it's really not that long of a time.
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olds cool
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olds cool 10/7/2018 4:41pm
10/7/2018 4:41pm
bsharkey wrote:
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying...
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying to say is Fernandis has been in America for for quite some time now he rides both Supercross and Motocross but yet today he came through just fine. I know some of you won't like this and find it disrespectful but I think they need a different team manager someone who's young has enthusiasm I think Rodger is just too old. How about someone like Carmichael or Villopoto someone that's respected but still with the times
Lost me at Rodger...
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Jeremy_Preston 10/7/2018 4:58pm
10/7/2018 4:58pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 4:59pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I think this also is a testament to just how much of a badass Herlings is. When he's your top rider (by far), this pushes everyone...
I think this also is a testament to just how much of a badass Herlings is. When he's your top rider (by far), this pushes everyone else to get faster - which they obviously have gotten. The top rider of each series sets the tone for the series. We have Tomac who set the tone for the US series. He could barely crack the top 5 once against the GP racers. Look at Roczen and Barcia - they weren't competitive either. This says less about where riders are from and is far more indicative about the competition level in the MXGP series and their top riders.
Man we have to quit being so hard on these guys. This was one track, one weekend. I guarantee there are tracks where we would shine but the track and conditions today showed the euros are better in some of these worse conditions. Dont get me wrong the euros earned it but that does not mean they beat us everytime.
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PTECH
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PTECH 10/7/2018 5:18pm
10/7/2018 5:18pm
Damn. Came home from riding today to see we got thumped. Not too sad I didn't buy access from mxgp.tv this year...
RangerLee
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RangerLee 10/7/2018 5:24pm
10/7/2018 5:24pm
So yesterday we had one saying I should be banned from the forum for stating the obvious, we were going to lose today, and it would be embarrassing. (https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Motocross-of-Nations-Qua…)

Months ago, I posted that I felt France (https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/I-think-France-is-the-te…)

I hate that fact that I was right, but still, the "ban this turd" comment for stating what was obvious after yesterday, our riders were not in the same category, especially as a team, as the others.

Add to the fact, that team USA acts as everything BUT a team, something that we used to do back in the Winning days of the 80's and early 90's. Before talking about firing anyone, perhaps the first thing that should happen is require the team to be together for the week of and the day of the race in one pit.

With SX being bigger here though and our Nationals being over for a month at least before the MXoN, and the GP's ending a week or so before, I do not see the results changing much in the future.
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captmoto
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captmoto 10/7/2018 5:57pm
10/7/2018 5:57pm
bsharkey wrote:
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying...
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying to say is Fernandis has been in America for for quite some time now he rides both Supercross and Motocross but yet today he came through just fine. I know some of you won't like this and find it disrespectful but I think they need a different team manager someone who's young has enthusiasm I think Rodger is just too old. How about someone like Carmichael or Villopoto someone that's respected but still with the times
What is it you expect of a team manager that Roger is lacking?
mccread
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mccread 10/7/2018 6:30pm
10/7/2018 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 6:33pm
US riders lack versatility. They are very, very good on perfect tracks with grip but not too much sand or hard pack etc,

The world championship is 20 rounds on a wide variety of tracks and you have to be good everywhere, not excellent at just just one style, that’s why it’s the measuring stick for the best, not a national championship, I’ve been saying it for years.

That third moto was a standard US race if you take the GP guys out, Roczen leads early, Tomac battles Barcia then comes on strong and passes Roczen for the win before pulling away,,,but when you add the GP guys it makes it a whole lot tougher.
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mccread
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mccread 10/7/2018 6:36pm
10/7/2018 6:36pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 6:38pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I think this also is a testament to just how much of a badass Herlings is. When he's your top rider (by far), this pushes everyone...
I think this also is a testament to just how much of a badass Herlings is. When he's your top rider (by far), this pushes everyone else to get faster - which they obviously have gotten. The top rider of each series sets the tone for the series. We have Tomac who set the tone for the US series. He could barely crack the top 5 once against the GP racers. Look at Roczen and Barcia - they weren't competitive either. This says less about where riders are from and is far more indicative about the competition level in the MXGP series and their top riders.
Jeremy_Preston wrote:
Man we have to quit being so hard on these guys. This was one track, one weekend. I guarantee there are tracks where we would shine...
Man we have to quit being so hard on these guys. This was one track, one weekend. I guarantee there are tracks where we would shine but the track and conditions today showed the euros are better in some of these worse conditions. Dont get me wrong the euros earned it but that does not mean they beat us everytime.
Europe don’t even have a team... imagine if it was a Ryder cup style every year...the Nations gives USA a big advantage, as Europe are split into countries, try taking 3 riders from one state in the USA...sizewise that’s what European countries are doing at the Nations, so even when the USA win it doesn’t mean they are better than the top “Euros”. That’s been a myth for years.
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Nuffsaid
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Nuffsaid 10/7/2018 6:38pm
10/7/2018 6:38pm
cool_hand wrote:
Totally "schooled", the Euro Riders know how to get the starts. Period.
Do you mean by going down in the first corner?
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davistld01 10/7/2018 6:41pm
10/7/2018 6:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 6:44pm
Hell, no wonder Herlings says he can’t wait to come to America to race Tomac & Roczen. Maybe he wouldn’t beat them in SX the first year, but looks like he & several others could spank that American ass in the Outdoors. It’s sad. I hope to hell this is a wake up call!

I’ll bet RJ & Glover we’re embarrassed after that show.
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Do_Work 10/7/2018 6:42pm
10/7/2018 6:42pm
Team Green is offended by the title of this post and it should be moved to the Dumbgeon ASAP.
bsharkey
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bsharkey 10/7/2018 6:42pm
10/7/2018 6:42pm
drt410 wrote:
I dont think sx is making them slower I think its making them too worried about getting injured before sx, because sx is the big money...
I dont think sx is making them slower I think its making them too worried about getting injured before sx, because sx is the big money sport over here not mx so their real season is starting soon, so they dont want to risk anything before the biggest dirt bike series we have starts. Something was definitely off for Ferrandis to woop Plessinger. He just raced Ferrandis and essentially smoked him all year. I wonder if after the garbage day they had yesterday giving them the bad gate pics if that made them just say screw it and mail it in. I really think the biggest problem is the AMA racers dont care about pride and putting USA on top. They care about points paying races, the million dollars at Monster cup... and staying healthy for that big money paying Supercross series. I dont care if the top Euros are better we know for a fact that our guys are faster than they showed today. Something is going on. They just really seem to just not give a shit about mxon, as Eli has shown before, and they say screw this Im not getting hurt and screwing up supercross over this 1 day race for nothing. Its not nothing to us but in the grand scheme I think they can care less with more obligations around the corner, which is unfortunate for the fans. Plessinger crashing saturday while he was leading probably had him thinking man Im not trying to get hurt before sx.
I think you're right and that's what really sucks all the European guys they got a big break after today they didn't really have to worry about anything so I think they can take more chances
bsharkey
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bsharkey 10/7/2018 6:45pm
10/7/2018 6:45pm
bsharkey wrote:
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying...
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying to say is Fernandis has been in America for for quite some time now he rides both Supercross and Motocross but yet today he came through just fine. I know some of you won't like this and find it disrespectful but I think they need a different team manager someone who's young has enthusiasm I think Rodger is just too old. How about someone like Carmichael or Villopoto someone that's respected but still with the times
captmoto wrote:
What is it you expect of a team manager that Roger is lacking?
I just think it's time for a change that's all. I sat next to Rodger decoster and Ian Harrison back at Seattle Supercross about 5 years ago and talked with them both quite a while they're both pretty cool guys
Bry145
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Bry145 10/7/2018 6:54pm
10/7/2018 6:54pm
Peak American motocross has come and gone. The superstar racers (RC, JS7, RV) have retired. Local racing is going away. Bikes sales are still down from the peak. Young people want to stay inside and play on devices.

We focus on Supercross and supercross-like outdoor tracks. That's what draws the crowds, and crowds make promoters rich.

Get back to the roots of the sport regarding track design and prep, groom talent through local racing, and reduce the Supercross schedule. Or do nothing and we may have to accept the end of American motocross domination.



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uneasy_rider 10/7/2018 6:55pm
10/7/2018 6:55pm
bsharkey wrote:
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying...
One thing to consider is plessenger and ferrandis are both ama riders and ride for the same team. How do you explain that? What I'm trying to say is Fernandis has been in America for for quite some time now he rides both Supercross and Motocross but yet today he came through just fine. I know some of you won't like this and find it disrespectful but I think they need a different team manager someone who's young has enthusiasm I think Rodger is just too old. How about someone like Carmichael or Villopoto someone that's respected but still with the times
Roger picked the best riders of the series, he didnt ride, how could a different manager make them not stink up the track this weekend?
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pelted
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pelted 10/7/2018 6:56pm
10/7/2018 6:56pm
US got nothing less than a good old fashioned ass whooping...
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