AMA Nationals sub par? Lets take a look.

9/5/2017 7:02am
Park Boys wrote:
JMB 1989. Trying to say imagine the AMAs without Euros is illogical. The Frenchman started a trend. AMA might be an "American" series but its had...
JMB 1989. Trying to say imagine the AMAs without Euros is illogical. The Frenchman started a trend. AMA might be an "American" series but its had consistent international top talent for nearly 30 years and it's not just Euros. South Africans, New Zealand and Austrialla to name a few. Who cares about just Eli. Herlings is the only one to beat him in a overall racing the GPs on 450s. I know the USGP is a hard comparison being in the USA but only one of the tracks did he have an advantge on and it showed. The 2009,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 and most likely 17 FIM world MXGP champs have never beat him for an overall. The reason I say this is to point out that more American riders beat him this year in a couple race span than world champions have. I'm I saying someone like Bagget is better than #Gofastereatpasta? No, not at all. But most of the people out there and I'm one of them though Eli would smoke these guys this year and he didn't and we are having a hard time giving these guys respect cause we all assume something is wrong with Eli. Anderson and Bagget are no joke. Tomac,Anderson and Bagget might not be as strong as RV,RD and Stew but when they are healthy you can't just assume they will get beat.

Why would you bring up SX? 8 of the 10 best in the world are American. If they went home, there talent would be wasted and out of a field of 22, 2 guys would be gone. The only undebatable thing on this forum is that America is better than the rest of the world combined at SX. Don't know why you brought that into it.
You're not listening!

In a USA Rider Vs. Euro rider debate, (which plenty of knuckle draggers here insist on) WHO have you actually got?

Eli. Eli is who you've got.

Now, if we're talking series vs. series, you've got Eli, you've got Marvin, you've got Kenny.... it starts to look a lot more interesting.

"The only undebatable thing on this forum is that America is better than the rest of the world combined at SX."

Would that be because its ONLY America that does it with any kind of effort?
JMB, Kenny, Marvin among others that have proved if the Euros wanted Supercross, they'll provide all you can handle indoors as well as out..
pilotdude
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9/5/2017 7:19am
dude , you need to find a hobby :laugh: :laugh: the way you always seem to get facts turn your way is awesome and takes some...
dude , you need to find a hobby LaughingLaughing the way you always seem to get facts turn your way is awesome and takes some skill and i see why youre a big Cairoli fan , he is good at it too .. .
You are one to talk.
Park Boys
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9/5/2017 7:26am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2017 8:21am
You're not listening! In a USA Rider Vs. Euro rider debate, (which plenty of knuckle draggers here insist on) WHO have you actually got? Eli. Eli...
You're not listening!

In a USA Rider Vs. Euro rider debate, (which plenty of knuckle draggers here insist on) WHO have you actually got?

Eli. Eli is who you've got.

Now, if we're talking series vs. series, you've got Eli, you've got Marvin, you've got Kenny.... it starts to look a lot more interesting.

"The only undebatable thing on this forum is that America is better than the rest of the world combined at SX."

Would that be because its ONLY America that does it with any kind of effort?
JMB, Kenny, Marvin among others that have proved if the Euros wanted Supercross, they'll provide all you can handle indoors as well as out..
Again your saying all we "have" is Eli. Did he go 24-0 and dominate? No he won 9 motos and yes Musquin won the next most but Bagget beat Eli, caught and passed Eli and in his last healthy Moto of the season at Red Bud he nearly caught and passed Eli again from aways back. Anderson got out front and Eli could not catch him and even Bogle did. Now Bogle is very inconsistent but he has his flashes of brilliance. I would say we have three, it's just that two of em are injuried.

You brought up SX which is why I said it. But to say only Americans put forth effort is a huge lie. JMB,Pichon and Tortelli tried and they are Arguably the best French riders of all time. Everts would have if he would not have gotten hurt so much in his early years, he said so himself in a Matthes podcast. The best Austrillian ever raced SX, 2 of the 3 best ever from New Zeland raced SX. Arguably the greatest German rider of all time is doing SX currently. The two greatest South African riders raced SX both world champions. Let's not forget the British, Tommy and Max both wanted to succeed in SX and the last British world champ also raced SX. Choidi tried SX as well. I could keep going but to say only Americans try at SX is a fallacy made to fit your agenda. SX is the reason we have had countless world champions from all over the world come race in America.

The Shop

9/5/2017 7:51am
In terms of a series, it IS only the Americans who are making a concerted effort at it. No other country is putting in as much effort. Kroc & Marv are living proof that if the top Euro dudes wanted to do it, they'd be up there with the best of them.

So Baggett did beat Eli once or twice.... can anybody confirm if they were the days this 'real Eli' I keep hearing about turned up or not??

Anyhow, I aint hearing your shit, the 450 class in America is weak right now and you know it. It's a shame Eli is going to spend his career beating also-rans! The best injection American MX could get right now is if Monster paid Eli to go do MXGPs.

But I suppose we'd have six months build up of 'FMOTP is going to trounce MXGP' bullshit?!
Park Boys
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9/5/2017 8:40am
In terms of a series, it IS only the Americans who are making a concerted effort at it. No other country is putting in as much...
In terms of a series, it IS only the Americans who are making a concerted effort at it. No other country is putting in as much effort. Kroc & Marv are living proof that if the top Euro dudes wanted to do it, they'd be up there with the best of them.

So Baggett did beat Eli once or twice.... can anybody confirm if they were the days this 'real Eli' I keep hearing about turned up or not??

Anyhow, I aint hearing your shit, the 450 class in America is weak right now and you know it. It's a shame Eli is going to spend his career beating also-rans! The best injection American MX could get right now is if Monster paid Eli to go do MXGPs.

But I suppose we'd have six months build up of 'FMOTP is going to trounce MXGP' bullshit?!
Whatever the GP's right now are stronger but its due to injurys. As "stacked" as the GP's have been this year I dont think the big 4 have all been at 100% at the same time. Herlings did not race good till round 4, Gasjer was on fire at the beginning of the season got hurt and has not been the same sense and Febvre has been a shell of himself and finally wins a moto and gets hurt again. The only constant has been Mr. Cairoli he has had a few bad weekends but otherwise has been aces. Then you have Paulin and DeSalle and its a pretty big drop off after that.

By your logic sense you seem to not understand injuries was Febvre's 2015 title an also ran title? The fastest guys that year were out with injurys. Gasjer in 15 MX2 didnt have to beat Herlings was his title an also ran? Gasjer last year didnt race a 100% AC must be an also ran title too right? Herlings did not win until Roczen left, that title and the following MX2 titles clearly means nothing as he was racing also rans right? Roczen didnt win unitl Musquin left must be an also ran him self too huh?

9/5/2017 9:24am
top 13 in MXGP class with at least a podium , with Simpson at 17 with a win ....

thats called depth in racing ... doesnt say faster or better

benefits of a 23 age rule , everything has its pros and cons
9/5/2017 9:40am
I see two common trains of thought- AMA SERIES vs. the MXGP SERIES and the (less educated) USA RIDERS vs. Euro RIDERS. There is an argument...
I see two common trains of thought- AMA SERIES vs. the MXGP SERIES and the (less educated) USA RIDERS vs. Euro RIDERS.

There is an argument for SERIES vs. SERIES, but theres plenty of numbskulls here who still insist American RIDERS are stronger than Euro, which simply isn't the case.

If you're going RIDERS vs RIDERS, then you cannot claim Roczen, Marvin or Dean. So, try to picture this past outdoors series without MM or DW. How strong does it look then?

Or, lets fast forward to SX 2018, it looks as if ET3 is favourite. Let's just say Roczen & Marvin decide to upsticks and move back to Europe... Who brings the challenge to ET then? Doesn't look so strong does it..?

Furthermore- At Ironman, JH was comfortably able to come from last to first in that second moto. Whilst ET3 wasn't able to progress further than 12th last saturday. As well as in the first moto on Sunday, JH & AC were able to progress from 12-15th on the first lap to 2 & 3rd.

JT said himself- "I question whether ET would have been able to climb through to 2nd if he'd gotten the start that JH had..

ET3 is strong. He's up there with the best. The others, not so much.


hillbilly
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9/5/2017 3:47pm
hillbilly wrote:
Just gettin back from a trip to hell
Nighttrain wrote:
Welcome back, HB. Like Mark Twain said, "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company".
I ran into him,thought it was colonel sanders for making all them commercials.

I Got kick out for raising to much hell,go figure.

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