AMA Homologation and Alta

Related:
Create New Tag

3/22/2018 2:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/22/2018 2:41 PM

Taken from the Q & A with Derek D.

"Homologation into AMA amateur racing has gone fairly well, while we are not allowed to race as a 250 as we thought would be fair, we are allowed to run in classes were displacement is open, like Vets, Womens, College boy, etc. As time passes and the world becomes more familiar with our bikes and electric propulsion in general we hope to get back to a CC equivalency test. Expect to see a handful of Alta's at the qualifiers and hopefully some at Loretta's this year!."

I didn't follow what the Japanese brands had to go through but there's no way a 125 is close to the power of a 250F. Makes me wonder if the AMA just kowtowed to them.

|

3/22/2018 3:27 PM

Regrettably, You will be pushing shit up hill to get back into the 250 class.
The stone is now set!

|

3/22/2018 3:30 PM

After the way the AMA messed up 250 four strokes in being equivalent to 125cc two strokes, I would hope that they take a long hard look at it.

|

3/22/2018 3:34 PM

I thought several people have done informal drag races against 450’s and were beating them most of the time. I know the torque of the Alta is way up there, and electric motors make 100% torque right off 0 rpm if I’m not mistaken.

|

3/22/2018 3:51 PM

Muezh wrote:

Taken from the Q & A with Derek D.

"Homologation into AMA amateur racing has gone fairly well, while we are not allowed to race as a 250 as we thought would be fair, we are allowed to run in classes were displacement is open, like Vets, Womens, College boy, etc. As time passes and the world becomes more familiar with our bikes and electric propulsion in general we hope to get back to a CC equivalency test. Expect to see a handful of Alta's at the qualifiers and hopefully some at Loretta's this year!."

I didn't follow what the Japanese brands had to go through but there's no way a 125 is close to the power of a 250F. Makes me wonder if the AMA just kowtowed to them.

seems like a fair result for now, i would rather see this than it being pushed into the 250 class when it is overpowered for it,

i dont know how they will rate the electric bikes, will it be on battery output, or motor output?

|

3/22/2018 6:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/22/2018 6:45 PM

BS. They at minimum should be able to run against 450's in SX and Nationals. Amateur rules don't mean jack. Let them race Pro's.

|

2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

3/22/2018 6:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/22/2018 6:53 PM

Alta will be able to step up to a 450 easier than a 250 would be able to step up to an Alta if they make the wrong call. Sounds like AMA may actually be doing it right for once. Make Alta compete at the top level, I doubt it will take long. Then develop a formula where the Alta can compete with the 250s instead of just killing gas and air the way they killed gas oil and air.

|

3/22/2018 7:15 PM

The right decision was made.

The Alta has / will have Absolutely No problem with power.

It's up to them to bring weight down, and bring range up.

Enough of a horrendous f**k up was made with the BS 2x and 1.75x advantage given to Four Strokes.

To allow the Alta in among 250s, would be piece of idiocy repeated.

This is Not coming from an anti E bike or anti Alta perspective. I can see my next new bike being an Alta, once they become available in Australia - provided it has a reasonable price.

|

3/22/2018 7:15 PM

Different bike different classes.

Do not mix the two for the love of motocross.

|

3/22/2018 7:25 PM

Who do you think has a problem with ALTA showing up and racing the 250 class?

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

3/22/2018 7:30 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

Who do you think has a problem with ALTA showing up and racing the 250 class?

Anyone with half or more of a brain. If you’ve ridden both, you’d understand they don’t belong racing against 250’s or 450’s, 350’s, 550’s...it’s an entirely different class of bike.

|

3/22/2018 7:37 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

Who do you think has a problem with ALTA showing up and racing the 250 class?

Kyle978 wrote:

Anyone with half or more of a brain. If you’ve ridden both, you’d understand they don’t belong racing against 250’s or 450’s, 350’s, 550’s...it’s an entirely different class of bike.

Please just stop. 2 round rubber black tires is the qualifier. Everyone is focused on the wrong thing here. They are not allowed in the Pro's at all, Even 450's. That is BS and stinks of politics again.

|

2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

3/22/2018 8:51 PM

Really hard to compare. Take a 250 4 stroke. They run about 38lb tq and 52 hp at a pro level. The difference is they use a transmission with mutilple gears... we all know this. What we never had to consider, beyond sprocket changes which are profound in their effect, was the multpicative effect it has on power.


How gutless would a 250 4 stroke be with 1 gear?

|

3/22/2018 8:58 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Please just stop. 2 round rubber black tires is the qualifier. Everyone is focused on the wrong thing here. They are not allowed in the Pro's at all, Even 450's. That is BS and stinks of politics again.

Did you see that crazy battle between the formula 1 and formula E cars for the championship last year? Me neither, because that would be stupid.

|

3/22/2018 9:01 PM

tobz wrote:

Different bike different classes.

Do not mix the two for the love of motocross.

why is this idea the hardest to grasp???

every other motorsport has no problem with this. 250f's vs 250f's 450's vs 450's, electric vs electric how hard is this???

|

"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti

3/23/2018 5:11 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

BS. They at minimum should be able to run against 450's in SX and Nationals. Amateur rules don't mean jack. Let them race Pro's.

You’d think right? But even Derek says the output is similar to a 350 so it seems they’re stuck in between right now.

Gotta wonder if the bike could be de-tuned with a firmware update so it’s comparable to a 250f

|

3/23/2018 5:33 AM

tobz wrote:

Different bike different classes.

Do not mix the two for the love of motocross.

Phillip_Lamb wrote:

why is this idea the hardest to grasp???

every other motorsport has no problem with this. 250f's vs 250f's 450's vs 450's, electric vs electric how hard is this???

exactly this, should be there own class

|

3/23/2018 5:42 AM

Phillip_Lamb wrote:

why is this idea the hardest to grasp???

every other motorsport has no problem with this. 250f's vs 250f's 450's vs 450's, electric vs electric how hard is this???

I think it is because every other motorsport is at best 50% man 50% machine. MX is at best 80% man 20% machine. It's not about the bike.

|

3/23/2018 6:51 AM

I'm all on board the electric mx bike train. That being said, if you stick one guy out there on it during a pro supercross race for the whole season he's going to get taken out eventually. We see guys cross jumping and whatnot, as is, being able to hear the rider behind them so one has to think that a accident is extremely likely to happen to 1 or 2 guys out there on silent bikes. I don't think electric and gas belong together on the same closed course, especially supercross.

Picture a top guy being out there on the Alta and he goes down in the 1st turn and has to make his way through the pack. Imagine all the back runners dicing around the track doing their own thing being completely oblivious to the Alta guy advancing behind them, blue flags aren't out yet because it's early on in the race so they're not worried about anyone coming up behind them....I think it'd be disastrous to be honest. We would see wwwwaaayyyyy more incidents like what happened to Forkner last weekend.

It'll be interesting to see what happens once Yamaha, Honda, etc come out with their electric mx bike. There is a huge market for electric bikes but I don't think there is a huge audience that really cares to see them race, like if they had their own class. The noise and smell of race fuel is a very large part of going to a national or supercross.

|

3/23/2018 7:14 AM

Fourth_Floor wrote:

I'm all on board the electric mx bike train. That being said, if you stick one guy out there on it during a pro supercross race for the whole season he's going to get taken out eventually. We see guys cross jumping and whatnot, as is, being able to hear the rider behind them so one has to think that a accident is extremely likely to happen to 1 or 2 guys out there on silent bikes. I don't think electric and gas belong together on the same closed course, especially supercross.

Picture a top guy being out there on the Alta and he goes down in the 1st turn and has to make his way through the pack. Imagine all the back runners dicing around the track doing their own thing being completely oblivious to the Alta guy advancing behind them, blue flags aren't out yet because it's early on in the race so they're not worried about anyone coming up behind them....I think it'd be disastrous to be honest. We would see wwwwaaayyyyy more incidents like what happened to Forkner last weekend.

It'll be interesting to see what happens once Yamaha, Honda, etc come out with their electric mx bike. There is a huge market for electric bikes but I don't think there is a huge audience that really cares to see them race, like if they had their own class. The noise and smell of race fuel is a very large part of going to a national or supercross.

Give me an electric bike now please. ....come on....the more I read the better they sound. ..if I don't have to clutch it . I can adapt i think. Igive me a ride

|

3/23/2018 7:18 AM

Fourth_Floor wrote:

I'm all on board the electric mx bike train. That being said, if you stick one guy out there on it during a pro supercross race for the whole season he's going to get taken out eventually. We see guys cross jumping and whatnot, as is, being able to hear the rider behind them so one has to think that a accident is extremely likely to happen to 1 or 2 guys out there on silent bikes. I don't think electric and gas belong together on the same closed course, especially supercross.

Picture a top guy being out there on the Alta and he goes down in the 1st turn and has to make his way through the pack. Imagine all the back runners dicing around the track doing their own thing being completely oblivious to the Alta guy advancing behind them, blue flags aren't out yet because it's early on in the race so they're not worried about anyone coming up behind them....I think it'd be disastrous to be honest. We would see wwwwaaayyyyy more incidents like what happened to Forkner last weekend.

It'll be interesting to see what happens once Yamaha, Honda, etc come out with their electric mx bike. There is a huge market for electric bikes but I don't think there is a huge audience that really cares to see them race, like if they had their own class. The noise and smell of race fuel is a very large part of going to a national or supercross.

As for noise probs. I don't think it will be different. Except for exceptional circumstances where beginners are racing a class racers. Unless its supercross, be more aware of lapprs than forkner. ?

|

3/23/2018 9:03 AM

Fourth_Floor wrote:

I'm all on board the electric mx bike train. That being said, if you stick one guy out there on it during a pro supercross race for the whole season he's going to get taken out eventually. We see guys cross jumping and whatnot, as is, being able to hear the rider behind them so one has to think that a accident is extremely likely to happen to 1 or 2 guys out there on silent bikes. I don't think electric and gas belong together on the same closed course, especially supercross.

Picture a top guy being out there on the Alta and he goes down in the 1st turn and has to make his way through the pack. Imagine all the back runners dicing around the track doing their own thing being completely oblivious to the Alta guy advancing behind them, blue flags aren't out yet because it's early on in the race so they're not worried about anyone coming up behind them....I think it'd be disastrous to be honest. We would see wwwwaaayyyyy more incidents like what happened to Forkner last weekend.

It'll be interesting to see what happens once Yamaha, Honda, etc come out with their electric mx bike. There is a huge market for electric bikes but I don't think there is a huge audience that really cares to see them race, like if they had their own class. The noise and smell of race fuel is a very large part of going to a national or supercross.

Sorry, but I have to disagree on the sound issue. I can't hear anyone behind me when I ride (maybe bc I'm deaf in my left ear) and it never effects me. I can tell when someone is behind me at times from a glimpse of front fender or something, but I honestly don't care, as the guy in front gets to choose his lines. The only time I can see it mattering is to help rider in front block the rider behind. Also there are completely deaf people that ride and race. Remember Ashley Fiolek? She was deaf and never had an issue that I can recall. Also, I have heard some pros ride with earplugs or earbuds in (not sure how true that is) so they wouldn't be able to hear someone behind them either.

I can agree with the noise and smell being part of the experience at a race, but its not what makes me go to the races. It would deffinately be missed, but I don't think its a determining factor for race fans.

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

3/23/2018 10:36 AM

Here’s why I think they should race 450, at least in SX. 250s and 450s are usually within a second or so of each other in qualifying. The top guys on 250’s would qualify 5-10ish if they raced in the 450 class. A few guys have even qualified for the 450 night show on a 250. The main reason for this time difference is the bottom end power of the 450. They come come around the inside of a corner and still hit a 60 foot triple no problem. The 250 cant. I’m sure Alta can build a map that would give them the bottom end hit of a 450. The only place they might be at a disadvatage is down the start straight. But they coul have a map for the start and then switch maps over the first jump for the rest of the race. They clearly don’t have the power of a 450, so why not let them race against them. They have no advantage, But I do think they would be competitive.

|

3/23/2018 1:13 PM

If anyone thinks the big 4 well now 5 had no say in this dream on. There is no way hell they want any more competition on the track. All I hear in the forums is how 2 strokes are not coming back because Honda dosent make one and won’t make one and they tell AMA what to do.

That being said let any 3 the big 5 have an Alta comparable E-bike ready to sell and see how fast the rules change. I would also guess tracks may be built somewhat differently. With so much talk about the tracks now with the power of the 450 and they want to put 147 lb-ft of torque on the same track?

|

Long live the King and the G.O.A.T.
The greatest there ever was and the greatest there ever will be.

2009 KTM 200xc
2013 Yahama TTR125