AC222’s legacy?

crowe660
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Edited Date/Time 8/29/2020 2:24pm
I’m not knowledgeable enough about MXGP (Average US fan level) to argue for or against, but, what does AC222 need to do to be the undisputed best ever GP racer and is it possible?

He’s an inspiration to myself. The way he rides this far into his career is unreal to me, and has to be an enigma. Has there been a rider this far into a career that arguably looks faster every year?

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jjavaman
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8/28/2020 10:07am
That everts guy may have more titles but he won a few of them running 1 moto races, tc222 is the man!
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hamncheeze
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8/28/2020 10:35am
In American MX we have RC who is undeniably the best. In Supercross, Jeremy is undeniably the best. In Canadian MX, Rollerball is undeniably the greatest Cool At this point Everts has one more title and 15 more GP wins than Cairoli, so I would argue he's the greatest. However, the gap from Everts to Cairoli is smaller than the gap of RC to RV/Dungey in MX or McGrath to JS7 in SX, in statistics.

I will say that Cairoli's ability to adapt to the speed of the new gen like Herlings and Gajser has been pretty impressive, but it has come at a cost in injuries. He's taken more hits in the past 3 seasons than the rest of his career.
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LungButter
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8/28/2020 11:13am
I'm just an average American fan as well, but to me AC222 is the best MXGP rider of all time.

Everts might have the numbers but I think his wins/championships from the 1 moto year(s) deserve an asterisk.
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8/28/2020 11:17am
LungButter wrote:
I'm just an average American fan as well, but to me AC222 is the best MXGP rider of all time. Everts might have the numbers but...
I'm just an average American fan as well, but to me AC222 is the best MXGP rider of all time.

Everts might have the numbers but I think his wins/championships from the 1 moto year(s) deserve an asterisk.
Everts rode what it was back in the day, it wasn’t his fault the format was like that. You could also look at it a different way and say it was possibly harder because you didn’t have a 2nd moto to regroup. It was shit or bust really.
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The Shop

LungButter
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8/28/2020 11:23am
Everts rode what it was back in the day, it wasn’t his fault the format was like that. You could also look at it a different...
Everts rode what it was back in the day, it wasn’t his fault the format was like that. You could also look at it a different way and say it was possibly harder because you didn’t have a 2nd moto to regroup. It was shit or bust really.
Good point.
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8/28/2020 12:02pm
I'd give Cairoli the nod for his longevity. Everts had alien skills though. I'd be curious who AC222 thinks is the greatest mxgp rider.
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8/28/2020 2:18pm
LungButter wrote:
I'm just an average American fan as well, but to me AC222 is the best MXGP rider of all time. Everts might have the numbers but...
I'm just an average American fan as well, but to me AC222 is the best MXGP rider of all time.

Everts might have the numbers but I think his wins/championships from the 1 moto year(s) deserve an asterisk.
So this years AMA championship won't count?
Events raced the series that were presented to him, he is the goat from another mother!
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LungButter
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8/28/2020 2:25pm
So this years AMA championship won't count?
Events raced the series that were presented to him, he is the goat from another mother!
I must have missed where this years AMA Series is 1 Moto format.

Which guys are racing that?

Seems to me most our top guys are racing the one with 2 motos, like real motocross. I could be mistaken though.
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TomC31
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8/28/2020 3:12pm
crowe660 wrote:
I’m not knowledgeable enough about MXGP (Average US fan level) to argue for or against, but, what does AC222 need to do to be the undisputed...
I’m not knowledgeable enough about MXGP (Average US fan level) to argue for or against, but, what does AC222 need to do to be the undisputed best ever GP racer and is it possible?

He’s an inspiration to myself. The way he rides this far into his career is unreal to me, and has to be an enigma. Has there been a rider this far into a career that arguably looks faster every year?

To answer it directly, Cairoli has 9 world titles, and Everts has 10,
Bidirella
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8/28/2020 3:20pm
TomC31 wrote:
To answer it directly, Cairoli has 9 world titles, and Everts has 10,
Everts 101 GP wins
Cairoli 90 GP wins
ktmdan
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8/28/2020 3:24pm
I believe the dude won a championship on a 350 before 350s were even badass. That’s pretty rad.
line-up
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8/28/2020 3:37pm
Cairoli won at least one MXGP round per year for 17 straight years...yes, his first win was in 2004 and his last, so far, was 10 days ago.

If I'm not wrong Everts managed to do that for 11 straight years.
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SWOHIO GUY
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8/28/2020 3:48pm
Everts being an individual ISDE champion is a unique stat no other MX rider has as well!
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FerCzD
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8/28/2020 3:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2020 3:51pm
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I was young.
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ATKpilot99
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8/28/2020 3:52pm
Everts arguably was at his best towards the end of his career also. He was undoubtedly at his most dominant.
The debate would be the level of competition he faced early as opposed to late.
Ewan
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8/28/2020 4:00pm
FerCzD wrote:
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I...
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I was young.
2006 Matterley Basin MXdN

I shot this pic of Everts giving Stewart a cornering clinic.



Cairoli was there, he won the 2nd moto (MX2/Open) outright on his 250f.

Cracking weekend, it rounded out my wife and i's honeymoon nicely!
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LungButter
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8/28/2020 4:12pm
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
Everts being an individual ISDE champion is a unique stat no other MX rider has as well!
Kinda, tons of champs are previous Moto guys including our own Ryan Sipes, not sure if Everts is the only one to do it while still actively racing moto though.
line-up
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8/28/2020 4:49pm
FerCzD wrote:
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I...
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I was young.
Cairoli was there and won moto2 on a 250....
Rupert X
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8/28/2020 5:06pm
I don’t much about matching up records and whatnot, what I do know, is that Antonio shall Definitely go down - as one of the world’s greatest motocross racers.
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rohleder644
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8/28/2020 5:21pm
I’ll tell ya what, as a Jack Daniels drinkin stars and bars wearin, red blooded American, I find it hard to believe anybody could argue against Everts as the 2nd greatest to throw a leg over a motor scooter. Nobody’s gonna steal the crown from my freedom lovin’ Malcolm Smith.
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SWOHIO GUY
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8/28/2020 5:50pm
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
Everts being an individual ISDE champion is a unique stat no other MX rider has as well!
LungButter wrote:
Kinda, tons of champs are previous Moto guys including our own Ryan Sipes, not sure if Everts is the only one to do it while still...
Kinda, tons of champs are previous Moto guys including our own Ryan Sipes, not sure if Everts is the only one to do it while still actively racing moto though.
Not sure if Sipes has won the ISDE overall, maybe I am wrong. I guess the difference between the two was it was Everts first enduro.
rohleder644
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8/28/2020 6:00pm
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
Not sure if Sipes has won the ISDE overall, maybe I am wrong. I guess the difference between the two was it was Everts first enduro.
Fuck yes he has!!! *screeches in bald eagle*
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jeffro503
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8/28/2020 6:40pm
I'm a stats guy myself , but when I think of AC and Evert's.......the word " Legend " comes to mind , for both of them. Both of them have had career's that make some other legend's weep. For me , it's extremely cool seeing AC still out there. Past few seasons with injuries have been tough , but man , that guy is a fighter. The amount of grit that dude has is insane. Tough as nails!
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SWOHIO GUY
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8/28/2020 7:25pm
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
Not sure if Sipes has won the ISDE overall, maybe I am wrong. I guess the difference between the two was it was Everts first enduro.
Fuck yes he has!!! *screeches in bald eagle*
Are these bald eagle screeches singing Lee Greenwood?
Ted722
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8/28/2020 7:30pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I'm a stats guy myself , but when I think of AC and Evert's.......the word " Legend " comes to mind , for both of them...
I'm a stats guy myself , but when I think of AC and Evert's.......the word " Legend " comes to mind , for both of them. Both of them have had career's that make some other legend's weep. For me , it's extremely cool seeing AC still out there. Past few seasons with injuries have been tough , but man , that guy is a fighter. The amount of grit that dude has is insane. Tough as nails!
Grit, perfect description Jefro. Certified badass! 👍
scott_nz
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8/28/2020 7:47pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Everts arguably was at his best towards the end of his career also. He was undoubtedly at his most dominant. The debate would be the level...
Everts arguably was at his best towards the end of his career also. He was undoubtedly at his most dominant.
The debate would be the level of competition he faced early as opposed to late.
Everts could have gone on to win more races and titles, i think he would have won in 2007 if he had not retired , he had Coppins and Ramon easily covered the year before,

to me, numbers matter, and 1 more title and 11 more GP wins makes Everts the Greatest GP rider of all time, but AC222 is badass as well,

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LungButter
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8/28/2020 7:47pm
Fuck yes he has!!! *screeches in bald eagle*
Thank you.

Not to derail the thread but Sipes is a damn American hero. I hope to one day shake his hand and tell him thank you. I shed a tear the day he brought that win home, one of the biggest accomplishments in all of US motorcycling. Generations of off road racers in America were waiting for that day. Not to mention my dear friend KC66 who’s life’s work was to see that happen, seriously a day I won’t forget when Sipes won the overall at ISDE.

As far as Everts, he put on a clinic at the Brazil ISDE on a staggeringly stock WR450. It was an all time performance that is maybe a little bit forgotten due to being pre-social media. I’m glad someone brought it up.

I still give the nod to AC, but admittedly with some bias.
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8/29/2020 12:44am
FerCzD wrote:
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I...
Everts raced Stewart and finished ahead of him in one MXdN I believe it was Great Britain? Heck maybe Cairolli was also there can't remember I was young.
Ewan wrote:
2006 Matterley Basin MXdN I shot this pic of Everts giving Stewart a cornering clinic. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/28/446328/s1200_DSCF1643.jpg[/img] Cairoli was there, he won the 2nd moto (MX2/Open) outright...
2006 Matterley Basin MXdN

I shot this pic of Everts giving Stewart a cornering clinic.



Cairoli was there, he won the 2nd moto (MX2/Open) outright on his 250f.

Cracking weekend, it rounded out my wife and i's honeymoon nicely!
https://youtu.be/k0CWQwNIQ8Y

One of my favourite ever races!
Question
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8/29/2020 1:25am
crowe660 wrote:
I’m not knowledgeable enough about MXGP (Average US fan level) to argue for or against, but, what does AC222 need to do to be the undisputed...
I’m not knowledgeable enough about MXGP (Average US fan level) to argue for or against, but, what does AC222 need to do to be the undisputed best ever GP racer and is it possible?

He’s an inspiration to myself. The way he rides this far into his career is unreal to me, and has to be an enigma. Has there been a rider this far into a career that arguably looks faster every year?

TomC31 wrote:
To answer it directly, Cairoli has 9 world titles, and Everts has 10,

Things to consider too:

- A few of Everts's titles are in mx3, the big bore, where it was not as competitive as the current MXGP. (The mx1 and mx3 were splitting the top talents and the depth of the field. Btw I think it was a bit better, giving more rides and making GP more accessible. Plus it was much better because it was less costly to organize, without the need to have x acres of pits which has put out of the map some historical tracks, and the public was paying for only 1 class which was giving decent purse money.)

- Everts's most difficult competitors left to the US because they won world titles, while actually a few of Cairoli's competitors left europe because Cairoli was winning or would have won against them.

- The total number of GP wins is higher for Everts, although the seasons had probably 5 less GPs per year (most national championships were much more important and stacked back in the days, particularly because importers were not organized like "yamaha europe" but each country had its own importers who then were particularly investing in the sport. I know he won double or tripler headers, but I would count it more as exceptional performances than as an easy way to get more gp wins).

- Level of the field/difficulty to have consistent results: I think the difficulty to get to the "pro level" and to have consistent results back then was higher than it is now. Cairoli is still from the generation where MX was cool for all the kids so the level of talent to get was still about the same. Surgeries were more risky and could take a toll on a career. So the longevity of Everts compared to the riders of his period is really impressive.

- I know Cairoli didn't win in 09(?), but for me I count it as a win as he was leading the championship with like 5 rounds to go but had a ACL when bar banging at the start.

Overall, 2 exceptional riders, very much in the same ZIP code. Some could prove Everts is better, some could do the same for Cairoli. For me they are quite equal.
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