A more fair suggestion for the restart..

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4/15/2021 9:45 PM

First off Macadoo is a beast for his ride on Tuesday.
I think he should be able to race, but not nesecarily have the opportunity to holeshot.
The staggered starts work well, what if When a rider who caused the red flag re-enters, they do a staggered start with that rider in last place. Someone like macadoo will still rip through the pack, but is not given any advantage.
Food for thought..

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4/16/2021 7:41 AM

I dont think he had an advantage. He just got rag dolled and was riding a mangled bike and in pain. He wasnt even able to ride 100% through the whole race. If anything justin cooper had the advantage

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4/16/2021 7:54 AM

kb228 wrote:

I dont think he had an advantage. He just got rag dolled and was riding a mangled bike and in pain. He wasnt even able to ride ...more

If you think about it, he did gain an advantage.

Had the race not stopped due to his crash, he'd likely have restarted last, if at all.

Instead, he got a do-over and a good start up front

I could be wrong, but that sounds like an advantage gained from the restart.

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Make sure you downvote!

4/16/2021 8:09 AM

If you’re the cause of a stoppage in speedway you’re allowed to return to the race, but at the rear of the field.

This would be more relevant to a single file restart though.

He was a lap or two down, had the race continued and he re-joined after being cleared he would have been well over four or five laps down. The red flag and restart did do him a favour but didn’t necessarily provide an advantage, he still started from the same starting line everyone else did and had to race the same track.

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4/16/2021 8:09 AM

I like McAdoo and his ride was definitely badass, but every rider on the track is and should be bummed about the circumstances surrounding his restart. He did crash, he did cause the red flag, he did start back on a level playing field after going well over a complete lap down and wasn't penalized for the mistake he made which had massive implications in the standings of the race and championship. I don't care who wins and i understand what the rule says in its current form, but the rule was bad in this situation.

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4/16/2021 8:21 AM

kb228 wrote:

I dont think he had an advantage. He just got rag dolled and was riding a mangled bike and in pain. He wasnt even able to ride ...more

EngIceDave wrote:

If you think about it, he did gain an advantage.

Had the race not stopped due to his crash, he'd likely have restarted last, ...more

all the riders got a 'do-over' from the restart. And from the sounds of it, Lawrence benefitted from it as well.
But yeah, i agree - the rider that caused the red flag should be penalized off the re-start in some way if they are allowed back on the gate.

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4/16/2021 8:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/16/2021 8:35 AM

kb228 wrote:

I dont think he had an advantage. He just got rag dolled and was riding a mangled bike and in pain. He wasnt even able to ride ...more

EngIceDave wrote:

If you think about it, he did gain an advantage.

Had the race not stopped due to his crash, he'd likely have restarted last, ...more

mxrose3 wrote:

all the riders got a 'do-over' from the restart. And from the sounds of it, Lawrence benefitted from it as well.
But yeah, i ...more

Penalization should be uniform across the board. The AMA should bend the rider's bars and hit him in the 'groinal region' before restart. Put it in the rulebook.

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4/16/2021 8:41 AM

mxrose3 wrote:

all the riders got a 'do-over' from the restart. And from the sounds of it, Lawrence benefitted from it as well.
But yeah, i ...more

Everyone else didn't crash

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Make sure you downvote!

4/16/2021 8:44 AM

blockhead17 wrote:

First off Macadoo is a beast for his ride on Tuesday.
I think he should be able to race, but not nesecarily have the ...more

I totally agree. If there is more than one lap completed it should go to a staggered start. I don't see any downsides with going that direction. Aside from the issue of the rider that caused the red flag joining or not, a rider that got a 10th place start shouldn't get a do over from a red flag anyway.

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4/16/2021 8:50 AM

You guys are missing the meaning of the term "complete" when we talk about a COMPLETE RESTART.

The race wherein Cameron MacAdoo wadded up and caused the restart DID NOT HAPPEN. It is completely wiped from the results standings and all running order was erased. The actual, resulting race started on equal footing behind a starting gate, and 19 guys got beaten by a dude riding a mangled bike while in pain.

Whether you agree that a race should be "completely restarted" before 3 laps is the only question here. I welcome dialog on that topic.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

4/16/2021 8:52 AM

I've got a better idea. If you cause a red flag and line up, you must do so with your seat removed.

Who's with me?

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I was raised just off HWY 126 in Valencia during the 80's.

4/16/2021 8:58 AM

ShawdowGlen wrote:

I've got a better idea. If you cause a red flag and line up, you must do so with your seat removed.

Who's with me?

...And a giant novelty sombrero strapped to your helmet.

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4/16/2021 9:15 AM

I have been thinking about the proposed rule changing/addition... and the more I think about it the more I think the current procedures are okay as is. I don't think more regulation will result into better, more fair racing, rather I think it could cause more controversy. Here is why:

So far I see two popular rule additions/changes. 1. Make it so if the flag was thrown for you, you can't race. 2. Staggered start always or require a penalty to rider who flag was thrown for.

So #1 here is what I think:

This one will required the AMA to rule on this rule much more often than the current procedure. Some issues would be something like a pileup in the first corner. Who is the flag thrown for? What if 1 rider stays down but 2 get up? What if one rider is okay but his bike is tangled with the other and he can't get going? We have seen a track this year where the track immediately turned around and jumped the start.. although the AMA I think saw how stupid that was, it still resulted in a immediate red flag due to a rider pileup. Should all of those guys been sent to the LCQ?

In my eyes, these situations are much more common than what happened on Tuesday night. The AMA will either be continually keeping eligible racers from racing, or they will have to continually make discretion calls and rule on a subjective basis (which obviously none of us like). No rider is going to risk laying there and getting a red flag. There is a lot of pressure in that situation: will it work? What are the optics if it's obvious? Will my team get upset? How will the other riders react? It's really a nonsensical counter argument in my eyes. You will not see Webb or Kenny in SLC find a tunnel and lay on top of it to get a red flag if they get a bad start...


Now #2:

Again, the trouble of "who caused it, who is the rider, etc." comes into play as in #1. But also, if a staggered start is wanted always, there becomes some consequences to that in the first few laps. It would be a logistical scoring nightmare to tell who is where in the first few laps. The riders are bunched up and passing is continuous. Additionally, you might get some "racing to the flag" situations as riders try to improve their start position. Later in a race this is a none issues as the racing has spread out a bit.

Really the only rule I think could filter out some special cases would be that the only riders who can participate in the restart need to pass the red flag in a given amount of time. Whether it be 2 laps worth of time (1.5 minutes) or a reset time of say 5 minutes. Other than that, the AMA will have to step in way more often imo. Generally though, the current rule works. 98% of red flags thrown will result in that rider not lining back up. This case from Cameron was a planets aligning pixie dust miracle event.

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4/16/2021 10:26 AM

A guy who was ragdolled into the face of a jump, restarted with a bike that, most likely was not in the same condition as the one he started with ended the race with a podium. Now, it’s because he had an unfair advantage? It’s not like the race restarted with two laps to go and, he was in 12th.
Maybe, he’s just exceeding everyone’s expectations.
If he ended the race in tenth, nobody would complain yet, give him props for having the balls to get back on the bike.

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4/16/2021 11:00 AM

EngIceDave wrote:

If you think about it, he did gain an advantage.

Had the race not stopped due to his crash, he'd likely have restarted last, ...more

mxrose3 wrote:

all the riders got a 'do-over' from the restart. And from the sounds of it, Lawrence benefitted from it as well.
But yeah, i ...more

EngIceDave wrote:

Everyone else didn't crash

Some of them did, including Hunter I believe. Should his 2nd place finish be wiped?

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4/16/2021 11:19 AM

I don't have a problem letting the rider line back up for the re-start if medically cleared. However, I don't think any of the riders should be allowed outside assistance other than possibly a splash of gas. No fresh goggles, no change of gloves, no mechanical assistance. If your bike is mangled you have to wait for the gate drop then ride to the mechanic's area.

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4/16/2021 6:34 PM

Why does anyone say “he caused the red flag so...”. There is no rule saying if you cause the red flag you can’t restart. Where does this ideology even come from? Weird.

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Riding since 1977.
Fan of the sport.
2019 CRF250R
2018 CRF450R
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4/16/2021 8:53 PM

The 3 lap rule for a complete restart, needs to be changed to a 3 minute rule. In the case of Atl2, 3 laps was damn near half the race. LOL

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My favorite rider is K.C Carlyle

4/16/2021 9:14 PM

I like the thinking process here. Macadoo definitely benefited the most Lawrence also made up ground. I believe macadoo should have been allowed to race, dont change the lap rule if three laps have not been ran libe back up on the gate with the rider that brought the red flag receive last gate pick

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4/16/2021 10:06 PM

BD233 wrote:

Why does anyone say “he caused the red flag so...”. There is no rule saying if you cause the red flag you can’t restart. Where ...more

A. That's not what the word "ideology" means. Marxism is an ideology, this is just an idea.

B. No one is disagreeing about what the rule is, the discussion is about what the rule should be. This was a very rare case of where a rider crashed and gained advantage due to it, in my years of fandom and competition I've never seen this happen before. Had he been anywhere else on track and not gotten the red flag, McAdoo would be much farther down on points than he is now. The rules were followed as they are written, and for that reason clearly the result should stand. But, most people intuitively grasp that this is a glitch in the rules, and should probably be rectified in the future. Although I don't foresee "flopping" becoming an issue in motocross, it is precisely this kind of weakness in the rules that allows for the practice in other sports. Flopping in soccer, intentional walks in baseball, and intentional fouling in basketball are some of the worst and least sportsmanlike features of those sports. Gaining advantage though intentional failure or feigned injury is obnoxious and the rules of any sport shouldn't leave space for it.

That being said, it took a very unusual combination of circumstances for this to happen. What are the odds of someone ending up on top of that box jump after a crash? The odds of walking away from it with an intact body and bike? The odds of it happening to a rider in contention for a tight championship? They could probably race for another 20 years without this coming up again, but writing the rulebook to ensure the fairest possible competition is their job, so when a weakness is exposed it should be fixed for the future.

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4/16/2021 10:29 PM

what wasn’t fair ... did they not follow the rules?

im pretty sure they did? I even read the rule book with my eight year old and he was able to understand it.

Seemed fair to me, an actual real medical doctor that went to a real medical school and passed and has a real medical license performed a concussion test and cleared him to ride... i’m seriously confused what all you maniacs are complaining about!

I thought it was bad ass to see him gut it out like that and get a podium!

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4/16/2021 10:56 PM

bvm111 wrote:

what wasn’t fair ... did they not follow the rules?

im pretty sure they did? I even read the rule book with my eight year ...more

Based on the rule, it was fair game. The problem is the rule that made it fair game in this instance has a glaring hole in it. Yes he rode like a beast and it was absolutely impressive for him to come back from the crash like that. With that though, the rule allowed a guy that blew himself apart and for all intents and purposes end his championship run all on his own accord, to re-enter the race, ahead of guys that put him well over a lap down with no consequence. Yes he was sore, yes his bike was bent, etc, and yes it could have been a disadvantage, but he did it and he caused it. He didn't have to reap what he sowed and honestly it probably screwed 2nd place through 18th or 19th out of money and championship points. Other guys did benefit from the restart, some probably got screwed by it too, happens all the time, but to not see how this instance was a bad deal is just being dense. This is nothing personal towards Cameron and truth be told, i'd like to see him win the championship, but this was about as unfair of a racing situation to almost the entire field as you can get. Let him restart, but place him a lap down, put him on the second row, give him the last gate pick, make him start backwards, I don't know the answer, but for sure in the future, you cant wipe the slate clean and give him a complete do over.

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4/17/2021 2:10 AM

I don’t really have a problem with a downed rider joining the restart, as long as it’s obvious that they didn’t stay down on purpose, as is the case in this situation.
However, if you want to make it fairer, make the restart gate pick in the order they’re running with the red flag at the finish line i.e. McAdoo gets last gate pick, Cooper gets first etc.

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4/17/2021 2:38 AM

DK23 wrote:

Some of them did, including Hunter I believe. Should his 2nd place finish be wiped?

No because it wasn't his crash that brought the red flag.. He just got lucky

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why am I reading this? ..... Oh christ, now I'm posting...... shiiiiiiiit!!

4/17/2021 7:22 AM

Why would any rider that can start the race again need medical assistance to get back to his bike? That's absurd to me. If I know I'm in a championship fight and I go down, the first thing I would try to do is find my bike and remount. For a LONG time after he came to a stop he wanted no part of his dirt bike. That's my issue.

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4/17/2021 7:33 AM

kb228 wrote:

I dont think he had an advantage. He just got rag dolled and was riding a mangled bike and in pain. He wasnt even able to ride ...more

How can getting to restart a race you were out of not be an advantage?

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4/17/2021 7:36 AM

MKMX wrote:

If you’re the cause of a stoppage in speedway you’re allowed to return to the race, but at the rear of the field.

This would ...more

How can getting to restart a race you were out of not be an advantage?

That might be the case with your 'participation trophy' rules but in every league in the rest of the world, apart from turn 1 one where there is a process to allow all 4 to restart, there is always a rider that is athe cause of the stoppage, and he is ALWAYS out.

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4/17/2021 7:38 AM

EngIceDave wrote:

Everyone else didn't crash

DK23 wrote:

Some of them did, including Hunter I believe. Should his 2nd place finish be wiped?

jemcee wrote:

No because it wasn't his crash that brought the red flag.. He just got lucky

So what was it then ? Rabid dog loose in the pits? Sniper in the stands. ?

Do tell us.

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4/17/2021 7:47 AM

The AMA followed the rules. If people don’t like the rules or don’t think they are fair, lobby the AMA to change the rules in the off-season.

Anything else is just mental masturbation.

It’s race day. Let’s watch some racing.

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4/17/2021 8:04 AM

Under 3 laps everyone gets a do-over and they all line back up on the gate. In this case it will work in favour of some riders and against others. If it was more then they get stacked and he would have been in the back. Red flags suck, but rider safety is more important.

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