A lot of Vital folks are going to hate this post

Tbteam
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8/15/2016 12:20pm
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic.

The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest POS I've seen in a while. I know that most of you will disagree, but holy crap, that sucked. Give me the tall grass to your handlebars track from back then.

"Pick a rut, and hope the rut the guy next to you picked doesn't intersect with your rut."
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kkawboy14
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8/15/2016 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2016 12:27pm
Personally I would have loved to see many of those long rutted sections to be graded out. If it's a slop fest, unslop it, it makes for better racing! In my world anyway.
Braap19
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8/15/2016 12:27pm
Im not a fan of the ruts in the straights either. It's not fun to ride on and people can get hurt cross rutting on a straight like that or really anywhere. Also better racing when it's a straightaway because riders can flow lines and make passes.
tp4
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8/15/2016 12:33pm
agree
I was there in the 70s a few times..it never looked like saturdays race
those ruts..robbed the racing!
seth505
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8/15/2016 12:36pm
Does anyone actually think Webb and Kroc would have had challengers if there were no ruts?

The Shop

TXDirt
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8/15/2016 12:37pm
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that. A track like that really challenges the riders. You have to be on point in every section. Lots of mistakes were being made and riders could capitalize on those mistakes. There were lots of different lines and ways to go through a section.
kkawboy14
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8/15/2016 12:39pm
seth505 wrote:
Does anyone actually think Webb and Kroc would have had challengers if there were no ruts?
No
Braap19
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8/15/2016 12:43pm
TXDirt wrote:
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that...
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that. A track like that really challenges the riders. You have to be on point in every section. Lots of mistakes were being made and riders could capitalize on those mistakes. There were lots of different lines and ways to go through a section.
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing where the riders are racing and pushing each other not pushing how the track can be ridden.
Braap19
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8/15/2016 12:44pm
seth505 wrote:
Does anyone actually think Webb and Kroc would have had challengers if there were no ruts?
kkawboy14 wrote:
No
No
philG
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8/15/2016 12:45pm
not getting any hate here.... its all in the raceday thread..... Rutocross is killing good racing
TXDirt
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8/15/2016 12:47pm
TXDirt wrote:
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that...
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that. A track like that really challenges the riders. You have to be on point in every section. Lots of mistakes were being made and riders could capitalize on those mistakes. There were lots of different lines and ways to go through a section.
Braap19 wrote:
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing...
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing where the riders are racing and pushing each other not pushing how the track can be ridden.
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race some very brutal tracks. Not these perfectly groomed perfectly watered perfectly magical unicorn tracks that we have in the US.
kkawboy14
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8/15/2016 12:51pm
TXDirt wrote:
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that...
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that. A track like that really challenges the riders. You have to be on point in every section. Lots of mistakes were being made and riders could capitalize on those mistakes. There were lots of different lines and ways to go through a section.
Braap19 wrote:
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing...
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing where the riders are racing and pushing each other not pushing how the track can be ridden.
TXDirt wrote:
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race...
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race some very brutal tracks. Not these perfectly groomed perfectly watered perfectly magical unicorn tracks that we have in the US.
Most of the GPs that are rutted slop fests, I fast forward to the end pretty quickly.
Braap19
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8/15/2016 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2016 12:55pm
TXDirt wrote:
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that...
I thought the track was pretty great to be honest. Maybe one or two places you could have cleaned up but not any more then that. A track like that really challenges the riders. You have to be on point in every section. Lots of mistakes were being made and riders could capitalize on those mistakes. There were lots of different lines and ways to go through a section.
Braap19 wrote:
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing...
I don't want to watch a challenging race where riders have to pick through a section like threading the needle. I want to watch actual racing where the riders are racing and pushing each other not pushing how the track can be ridden.
TXDirt wrote:
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race...
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race some very brutal tracks. Not these perfectly groomed perfectly watered perfectly magical unicorn tracks that we have in the US.
GP riders may have better skill in riding a rough track, I don't want to argue this, what I am arguing is that the tracks could create better racing by grooming every once in a while during the day. I go to a outdoor race to see racing not single file follow the leader that the really rutted tracks cause.



At the end of the day it's the riders who bring spectators to the sport, which in turn brings money to the event. If there is no real racing, are you, as a spectator, getting your monies worth watching people riding around? I don't believe so. If I wanted to watch slot car racing, then I could watch a slot car race on YouTube for free.

Edit: Deleted talking about rider entries. Doesn't matter.
early
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8/15/2016 12:58pm
Given the type of infrastructure required for a national track today along with the cost of maintaining it throughout the year i dont see a one-off grass track being a feasible venue for modern professional MX races. It has nothing to do with riders or bikes, unfortunately it has to do with the 21st century.
mxrose3
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8/15/2016 12:59pm
I tend to agree with tbt. While ruts are great in the turns, they are not so great in the straights - at least for spectators. I wouldn't call the track a POS though... The promotors have to make sure they have enough water absorbed into the track in the morning so that its not a dustbowl by the 1st moto's.
downard254
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8/15/2016 1:05pm
That track was awesome in the '80's. Not so much in recent years. But, it is what it is. I just prefer the ripped up grass.
kzizok
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8/15/2016 1:05pm
Tbteam wrote:
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic. The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest...
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic.

The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest POS I've seen in a while. I know that most of you will disagree, but holy crap, that sucked. Give me the tall grass to your handlebars track from back then.

"Pick a rut, and hope the rut the guy next to you picked doesn't intersect with your rut."
I dont think you are going to get a lot of vital folks that are going to hate your post.
TXDirt
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8/15/2016 1:08pm
Braap19 wrote:
GP riders may have better skill in riding a rough track, I don't want to argue this, what I am arguing is that the tracks could...
GP riders may have better skill in riding a rough track, I don't want to argue this, what I am arguing is that the tracks could create better racing by grooming every once in a while during the day. I go to a outdoor race to see racing not single file follow the leader that the really rutted tracks cause.



At the end of the day it's the riders who bring spectators to the sport, which in turn brings money to the event. If there is no real racing, are you, as a spectator, getting your monies worth watching people riding around? I don't believe so. If I wanted to watch slot car racing, then I could watch a slot car race on YouTube for free.

Edit: Deleted talking about rider entries. Doesn't matter.
I watched all four motos live and saw some great racing. Not sure what you were watching. There were one maybe two sections that could have been smoothed out. I enjoy the racing, but I guess I also enjoy seeing how the riders adapt to the track. Anyone can go fast in a straight line or on a smooth track. I have huge respect and admiration for how fast these guys go when the track is brutal. Look at that second moto for Marvin. It was him against the track and you could see him battling it. I thought it was awesome.
Paw Paw 271
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8/15/2016 1:13pm
Tbteam wrote:
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic. The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest...
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic.

The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest POS I've seen in a while. I know that most of you will disagree, but holy crap, that sucked. Give me the tall grass to your handlebars track from back then.

"Pick a rut, and hope the rut the guy next to you picked doesn't intersect with your rut."
I have to agree! Most of the Pro MX courses in the USA are being set up in the same fashion and it just sucks. It has even become a part of the non pro mx tracks these days and with that we are seeing many more injuries to both pro's and non pro's in our racing. You don't see much of this in other countries.

Paw Paw
USMCMXer
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8/15/2016 1:16pm
I raced the national track there in 2010 (they usually use U2, which is in the woods out back, for their AM races), and while the layout is really cool and some of the jumps and sections are great, the dirt and rocks there absolutely suck! I have mentioned this in other posts and yeah, some people vehemently disagreed, but this weekend's race was proof that place has seriously lost a great deal of its former glory! Don't even start on the ridiculous hay bale, track marker, barrier placement, that was a complete hazard to the racers.
slowgti
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8/15/2016 1:17pm
Why don't they quit adding rice hills and all that bs, if it's a hardpack track, let them race on hardpack!

The tire companies might have to bring more than 2 different tires to the races then.
mx317
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8/15/2016 1:23pm
If they smooth it out it screws up the racing. If they leave it rough it screws up the racing. If they water a lot it screws up the racing. They can't win no matter what they do.
Titan1
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8/15/2016 1:31pm
I want to see the best riders in the world riding the worlds most brutal tracks...that means long deep ruts, huge bumps, endless whoops, massive jumps, cliff like hills (up and down), hard pack...I'd love it if the national tracks were NEVER groomed, ever. Put a little water on them to keep the dust down and let these dudes race.
8/15/2016 1:33pm
Here is one thing the 70's and 80's had to save from the ruts. The track started as grass for the weekend
Camp332
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8/15/2016 1:38pm
Tbteam wrote:
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic. The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest...
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic.

The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest POS I've seen in a while. I know that most of you will disagree, but holy crap, that sucked. Give me the tall grass to your handlebars track from back then.

"Pick a rut, and hope the rut the guy next to you picked doesn't intersect with your rut."
Such a grumpy old coot Bro.
BobPA
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8/15/2016 1:39pm
TXDirt wrote:
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race...
Part of racing is racing the track, is it not? I think that is why GP riders have really started to dominate in motocross. They race some very brutal tracks. Not these perfectly groomed perfectly watered perfectly magical unicorn tracks that we have in the US.
Have you even watched or attended any nationals? They are far from perfectly groomed unicorn tracks. I like taking a walk around the track after the motos just to see how brutal they are....Dilla is always a big eye opener of how tough tracks can get...
Sully22
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8/15/2016 1:44pm
The tracks this year, and a few years prior, have been ridiculously stupid with ruts imho. I know I'm in the vitalmx minority, not a fan if rut racing.
Braap19
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8/15/2016 1:47pm
Titan1 wrote:
I want to see the best riders in the world riding the worlds most brutal tracks...that means long deep ruts, huge bumps, endless whoops, massive jumps...
I want to see the best riders in the world riding the worlds most brutal tracks...that means long deep ruts, huge bumps, endless whoops, massive jumps, cliff like hills (up and down), hard pack...I'd love it if the national tracks were NEVER groomed, ever. Put a little water on them to keep the dust down and let these dudes race.
Then maybe you should watch some GNCC races or harecrambles. Motocross is about racing people, that's what people pay for. Not solely surviving the track like you want.
JB 19
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8/15/2016 1:50pm
The straights filled with ruts are too much and I'm sure most of the riders would agree. They could even plow the ruts in the straights and then blade it in a way that allows it to form braking bumps easier.
8/15/2016 1:56pm
I think some of you under estimate the skill these guys have, they've rode dirtbikes on various tracks throughout the US their entire life.. they can ride ruts. Ya in some cases the ruts make it more dangerous and I think the track crew does a good job of recognizing that and fixing it. At the end of the day, this is motocross, it's dangerous and every rider out there accepts the risks. If you don't like bumps and ruts maybe this isn't the sport for you.

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