A different look at the MXoN.

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6/18/2010 8:43 AM

I know, there are way to much of these really annoying AMA vs. GP threads.
And for me, it really doesnt matter which series is faster, deeper oder better.
I enjoy watching the GPs as much as the US Nationals, and i am no better man when the GP-Riders are faster, nor am i a better man when the AMA-Riders are better.

I just find it very sad that a lot of times the MXoN should be the evidence that the AMA-Series ist better or faster. The MXoN is a race where countries compete against each other. Yes, most of the times the USA wins this battle. Well the US is big, much bigger than any european country. I know, you've heard that a billion times by now.

Now to the point of my post:
I did the math on the last MXoN (MXoN 2009). I wanted to know, what would happen, if the MXoN would be a real AMA vs. GP race. So i counted for each race the top 5 AMA-Riders and the top 5 GP-Riders. For the third race i counted just the top 4, because Burner went down and did not finish.

As you can see below, in this case the GP-Guys would win by far.
Also if you just count the top three of each race.
But to be fair, this is not really showing the reality, because there are a lot more GP-Guys in the races than AMA-Racers. I think it would be way more close in points, if there were 20 AMA-Riders and 20 GP-Riders.

Here are the Points from the MXoN 2009:

Race 1

AMA:
Reed 2
Dungey 3
Searle 7
Weimer 8
Rattray 13

GP:
Cairoli 1
Desalle 4
Musquin 5
Coppins 6
Swanepoel 9


Race 2

AMA:
Tedesco 3
Metcalfe 9
Rattray 10
Balbi 16
Searle 17

GP:
Paulin 1
Philipaerts 2
Leok 4
Musquin 5
Nagl 6


Race 3

AMA:
Dungey 1
Tedesco 7
Reed 9
Balbi 19

GP:
Ramon 2
Philipaerts 3
Barragan 4
Frossard 5


Points Top5(4)

AMA: 124
GP: 57

Points Top3

AMA: 51
GP: 26

In 2009 the GP would have won both categories!
I think it would be really nice to see the top 10 (20) of each series against each other, this would really be the race of the year!!

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"Me fail English? That’s unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum

6/18/2010 9:03 AM

To quote you:
"I enjoy watching the GPs as much as the US Nationals, and i am no better man when the GP-Riders are faster, nor am i a better man when the AMA-Riders are better".

This is it people. The whole ego thing of going to work Monday morning feeling more of a "man" because your hometown baseball team won, or more of a man because your hometown walmart is bigger than the next guys is SOOOO pathetic. Sure, root for "your team" but be respectful and get your ego from YOUR acomplishments.

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6/18/2010 9:11 AM

Lotta work there, but remember that the MXDN is run at every GP race all season. The only difference is that 3 riders from the states ride and all the regular GP riders who have been riding against each other since the were kids in various events only change their riding gear for the country the represent and try to get their support team to help them for the weekend. The manic build up to the event is really only nurtured in the states since this is their only chance to step up to the GP level and this is understandable with the insecurity associated with ability of GP riders to cross the pond and dominate the National level events there and a National rider failing to advance up to a GP level be it financial or lack of confidence to become a World Champion.

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6/18/2010 9:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/18/2010 9:32 AM

Team Euro wrote:

Lotta work there, but remember that the MXDN is run at every GP race all season. The only difference is that 3 riders from the ...more

Here is the, "I am a dumb ass" of the day response. I wouldn't expect anything less from Team Euro-trash.

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6/18/2010 9:46 AM

The sting of the whip of truth w00t

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6/18/2010 10:04 AM


The "Whip of truth" is had every year at the MXoN.

I'll see you there!!


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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system and too soon to shoot the bastards."

6/18/2010 10:14 AM

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6/18/2010 10:16 AM

Team Euro wrote:

Lotta work there, but remember that the MXDN is run at every GP race all season. The only difference is that 3 riders from the ...more

The only problem is that there are far more than just the three American AMA riders, that don't race the GP's, which race the AMA sereis.

So your entire post right there, is off base.

The MXdN isn't a GP....because it not only has the top three American riders, but it also has top Austrailian (sometimes all 3 of which race in the AMA), top french, top English, top South african, top new zealand, and on and on and on.

Pull your head out, friend.

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6/18/2010 10:25 AM

I like it....and this is what I've been saying in other threads. Nice work.

Why don't you do the same for 2008 and 2007 as well? (If you have time). It'd be interesting to see.

Last year was a bad year for the AMA riders at the mxdn...I remember in 2006 (I think), and 7 of the 9 riders on the three podium teams were AMA riders.

Anyway, it goes back and forth, and so I would LOVE to see a historical analysis of that.

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6/18/2010 10:56 AM

I'd say take the top 3 AMA guys and compare to the top 3 GP guys in points for the last 3 years at MXoN and see where it falls. I do not think we have ever had the top 10 AMA guys in the MXoN regardless where they are from.

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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system and too soon to shoot the bastards."

6/18/2010 11:22 AM

pie8man wrote:

I'd say take the top 3 AMA guys and compare to the top 3 GP guys in points for the last 3 years at MXoN and see where it ...more

Good point.

The comparison will not be completely accurate, as most of the top riders racing AMA are American's and we can only bring 3 of them...but it still fun to look at.

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6/18/2010 11:22 AM

Titan1:
Right now i am working on the 2008 results.
I am planning on doing the 2007 and 2006 MXoNs also.
Might need some help on who was riding GPs or AMA this years.

pie8man:
I will do (as far as it is possible) the top 5 results and the top 3 results from each year.
Just as did with the 2009 MXoN.

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"Me fail English? That’s unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum

6/18/2010 11:25 AM

mxmasta wrote:

Titan1:
Right now i am working on the 2008 results.
I am planning on doing the 2007 and 2006 MXoNs also.
Might need some help ...more

Sweet! Thanks....

(You've got more time than me)

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6/18/2010 11:43 AM

Ok, here we go with the 2008 MXoN:

Race1:

AMA:
Stewart 1
Villopoto 10
Reed 12
Metcalfe 17

GP:
Pourcel Seb. 2
Philipaerts 3
Barragan 4
Bill 5

Race2:

AMA:
Villopoto 1
Cooper 4
Byrne 8
Ferry 9
Metcalfe 10

GP:
Ramon 2
Searle 3
Salvini 5
Osborne 6
Aubin 7

Race3:

AMA:
Ferry 5
Reed 8
Balbi 19
Cooper 21
Stewart 23

GP:
Pourcel Seb. 1
Leok 2
Nagl 3
de Dyker 4
Coppins 6


Points Top5(4) AMA- and GP-Riders:

AMA: 148
GP: 53

Points Top3 AMA- and GP-Riders:

AMA: 68
GP: 25

In 2008 the GP would be in front again in both, top 5 and top 3.

Keep in mind, that its not really fair, because there are a lot more GP-Riders in the field than AMA-Guys. But even if there are more of them, they still need to finish ahead of the AMA-Guys to score better.

Next will be the US-dominatet MXoN 2007 Buds Creek.
I was there (as i was in 2008 and 2009) and saw how dominat RV was that day. I am looking forward to see the "new" results of this event.

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"Me fail English? That’s unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum

6/18/2010 11:47 AM

Nice.

Yes, not completely accurate because the AMA riders at the MXdN, though the best in their country, aren't necessarily the best in the AMA series.

But it is certainly interesting to look at.

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6/18/2010 12:03 PM

MXoN 2007:

Race 1

AMA:
Villopoto 1
Reed 2
Carmichael 3
Langston 22

GP:
Pourcel Seb. 4
Barragan 5
Philipaerts 6
Leok 7


Race 2

AMA:
Villopoto 1
Ferry 4
Balbi 18
Byrne 30

GP:
de Dyker 2
Searle 3
Renet 5
Aubin 6


Race 3

AMA:
Carmichael 1
Ferry 2
Langston 3
Byrne 12
Balbi 26

GP:
Ramon 4
Leok 5
Philipaerts 6
Mackenzie 8
Pourcel Seb. 9

Points Top5(4) AMA- and GP-Riders:

AMA: 125
GP: 70

Points Top3 AMA- and GP-Riders:

AMA: 35
GP: 40

As you can see, that year its a 1:1.
Top 5 the GPs would win, top 3 the AMA would win.
But even in the top three categorie its really close in points.

Maybe i will do the 2006 MXoN sometimes too, but for now its enough with wasting my free time with doing the math on some long gone races. For now its time to join my girlfriend and my little 4 month old son on the couch :-)

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"Me fail English? That’s unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum

6/18/2010 1:36 PM

Team Euro wrote:

Lotta work there, but remember that the MXDN is run at every GP race all season. The only difference is that 3 riders from the ...more

a National rider failing to advance up to a GP level be it financial or lack of confidence to become a World Champion.

How many times we got to tell you. Noone gives a $hit well enough over here to race the full GP series. Otherwise they would do it. You should be happy you get some of the usa riders that either can't cut it here or they leave to do GP's for other reasons.

Your Champions leave to come over here. Our Local and Foreign Champions stick around here to defend their title.

Hate to burst your bubble champ but I think your still being paged to this link.


http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Remember-when-the-Nationals-where-dominated-by-riders-from-the-USA,961291?page=4
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6/18/2010 3:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 11:27 PM

Team Euro wrote:

Lotta work there, but remember that the MXDN is run at every GP race all season. The only difference is that 3 riders from the ...more

Photo
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6/18/2010 3:32 PM

Points Top5(4)

AMA: 124
GP: 57

Points Top3

AMA: 51
GP: 26

In 2009 the GP would have won both categories!



Pretty self explanatory. dyslexia proof

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6/18/2010 3:43 PM

Team Euro wrote:

Points Top5(4)

AMA: 124
GP: 57

Points Top3

AMA: 51
GP: 26

In 2009 the GP would have won both categories!



Pretty ...more

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Remember-when-the-Nationals-where-dominated-by-riders-from-the-USA,961291?page=4


Oh, and you have to acknowledge that the very best AMA riders weren't present right? You are going to be a realistic, mature, smart individual on this topic and at LEAST acknowledge that, right?

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6/18/2010 5:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/18/2010 5:44 PM

This is a pretty interesting way to look at the MXdN for bench racing purposes. And yeah, due to the nature of the system not all the top GP or AMA guys will be there, but at least it's something. For sure there are plenty of American, French, Belgian, UKian (yes I said that), Australian, Whateverian riders who are more solid than the riders that my measly nation (among others) is able to send nowadays. But... c'est la vie.

And can't everyone just ignore TE, he's just trying to destroy just about every level-headed thread that appears. Don't give him that power.

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6/18/2010 5:45 PM

Carl Bildt mentality

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6/18/2010 5:53 PM

MX DDDDDDD N! feckin noob.. D get it? not O but D. don't cave in mx'ers.

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dont screw with me, i am old and feeling grumpy..

6/18/2010 6:53 PM

Team Euro wrote:

Lotta work there, but remember that the MXDN is run at every GP race all season. The only difference is that 3 riders from the ...more

I try to stay away from the "US vs " THEM" threads.....but I gotta say your logic is so flawed it's unbelievable!

Comparing 3 USA riders against the entire God damn Euro field is ridiculous! The actual amount of Euro riders at the MXoN is what......like 30 god damn riders?

The USA Nationals have riders from all over the world that race it as well. In fact a lot of your "Champions" are here racing our series.

All of those guys that come here to race are welcomed. It seems like you are extremely bitter because a lot of them left for a "better series" and more pay.

And just so you know........when you look at the final out come of the MXoN , just know we had 3 rider...ONLY 3! Every single country from Europe gets 3 riders as well. Which means we have to face like 30 riders from smaller countries that add up to about the size of the USA! So that's about 10 Euro's against 1 American.........

Who's been winning the MXoN's around the past 30 years again?

And AGAIN , this is not knocking the Euro riders OR the whole GP series in a whole......It's knocking on guys like you that find every chance you can , to try and make yourself superior in this sport.

Lets see how those Swedish riders stack up against the rest of the field this year "team Euro".....Not just the USA riders either......ALL the countries.

Jesus Christ give it a rest.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

6/18/2010 6:55 PM



Pretty pathetic man. Don't you have anything constructive to do like....go ride a dirtbike.

Seem to have gotten a bit bitter lately knowing we now have 3 guys who will beat Cairoli.

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6/18/2010 7:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/18/2010 7:04 PM

Since when did cheering for your team become a BAD thing? Do I want an American to smoke the gp riders? You bet I do, and there is nothing wrong with that. I hope our guys blow the GP guys out of the water. I hope Pourcel gets his butt handed to him by an American. I hope Stewart beats Reed. Nothing wrong with that, people cheer for their team, country, favorite athlete all the time. It's not ethnocentric to cheer for your country.

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Best Regards,

~ J. Sloan

6/18/2010 7:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/18/2010 10:10 PM

Swedish riders suck and will suck for a long time,

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6/18/2010 7:23 PM

Well...I applaud you for your low number here in the states and running the GP's....But you sure do come off the wrong way sometimes. Any time I read a MXoN type thread I always see you in there bagging on the USA nationals as a whole and talking up the Euro riders like we are just pieces of shit compared to you guys. It tends to rub people the wrong way.

As far as the MXoN race goes.....we have 3 guys out there just like every other country that competes. How come you are not bagging on Canadians ......Look how big that country is? Or South America , Russia or even China.......those countries are friggin' huge!

Population per country is a weak excuse as well........USA is crowded in some areas , and it's for good reason.....It's nice here.

So come down off your high horse and quit bagging on us so much....Jesus Christ.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

6/18/2010 7:24 PM

J. Sloan wrote:

Since when did cheering for your team become a BAD thing? Do I want an American to smoke the gp riders? You bet I do, and ...more

You call these AMA vs FMF threads over the last week cheering?

It's more like listening to Floyd Mayweather Jr. flappin his jaw all day.w00t

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6/18/2010 7:29 PM

Team Euro wrote:

Swedish riders suck and will suck for a long time,

Oh when you have earned a National AMA 2 digit number and rode in the GP`s and continue to be associated with the GP`s ,yes I would call myself superior to you and most Who is this clown? Is this guy even for real?? laughing laughing laughing
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