A Helmet Revolution underway

Edited Date/Time 4/13/2019 5:11am
Edit: got schooled a bit further down and updated the title.

I am referring to the Bell segment (science of supercross), but its called Flex and you can find more info on their webpage.

Basically its a “three layer impact liner designed to manage from three potential impact scenarios: low, medium, high-speed”.

There is no standard for this sort of technology - all tests are intended to ensure protection of the scull (not so much the brain directly, except by protecting the scull) during high speed impacts.

So finally a helmet that tries to target lower and medium Speed impacts and not just rotational stuff (overcooked issue in my view).

Hopefully the standards catch up or at least standard bench marking comes into place.

Note, I have never owned a Bell and don’t work for them. I also am not saying the Bell system is great or works really well, but the concept / direction is.

But this is the next step I have been waiting for decades to happen (since my first concussion).
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Motofinne
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4/11/2019 2:18am
This is "old" news. That revolution started in 2013 when 6D released their first helmet.

The Bell Flex helmet released in 2015.
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MZ193
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4/11/2019 2:24am
Motofinne wrote:
This is "old" news. That revolution started in 2013 when 6D released their first helmet.

The Bell Flex helmet released in 2015.
ded.
observeroffacts
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4/11/2019 2:38am
Yeah, sorry man.. many concussions in these helmets have been had in the 4 years since this tech dropped.

Sounds cool though
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4/11/2019 2:39am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2019 2:49am
Motofinne wrote:
This is "old" news. That revolution started in 2013 when 6D released their first helmet.

The Bell Flex helmet released in 2015.
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already.

Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact probably decreased they effectiveness of 6D’s system.
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Motofinne
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4/11/2019 3:41am
Motofinne wrote:
This is "old" news. That revolution started in 2013 when 6D released their first helmet.

The Bell Flex helmet released in 2015.
dirtwalker wrote:
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already. Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact...
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already.

Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact probably decreased they effectiveness of 6D’s system.
Yeah almost every single high end helmet has a system in place to reduce concussions, even some low end helmets have MIPS in place.

The only high end helmet that doesn't have anything is Arai.
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kb228
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4/11/2019 4:48am
Motofinne wrote:
This is "old" news. That revolution started in 2013 when 6D released their first helmet.

The Bell Flex helmet released in 2015.
dirtwalker wrote:
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already. Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact...
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already.

Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact probably decreased they effectiveness of 6D’s system.
It is used widely. The bell moto 9 flex is probably the most popular helmet out there.
4/11/2019 5:48am
Ok. I am going to edit my title and shift this topic a little.

So the change has started, and i do think it is the right direction.

But I also think the mips stuff got too much focus.

And it sounds like there is more development needed still.
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4/11/2019 6:01am
Motofinne wrote:
This is "old" news. That revolution started in 2013 when 6D released their first helmet.

The Bell Flex helmet released in 2015.
dirtwalker wrote:
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already. Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact...
Ok I apologise i was unaware. surprised it hasn’t been used more widely already.

Although, i have to say the focus on angular aspects of impact probably decreased they effectiveness of 6D’s system.
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah almost every single high end helmet has a system in place to reduce concussions, even some low end helmets have MIPS in place. The only...
Yeah almost every single high end helmet has a system in place to reduce concussions, even some low end helmets have MIPS in place.

The only high end helmet that doesn't have anything is Arai.
Just to be clear i don’t think MIPS does much for energy absorption from the actual impact. Only helps with the skidding.

Even the fox V3 only has dual density EPS. Useless in anything other than a major impact. I think 6D is only a bit better.

The Bell direction is different makes a lot more sense to me. As for their execution, i can’t comment.
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Jt$
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4/11/2019 6:12am
There certainly is a revolution underway. Fortunately for everyone, many companies are throwing every resource in their arsenal at this.
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Red Crawford
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4/11/2019 8:33am
I'm with OP----watching the topic closely.
Meanwhile, sitting tight in my Shoei Evo after a brief fling with 6d (ATR1).

BikeGuy321
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4/11/2019 10:28am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2019 10:30am
This is the new Wave Cel helmet from Trek. I'd take this over the standard Styrofoam helmet liner.
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kkawboy14
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4/11/2019 11:02am
A Helmet [Snake Oil] Revolution is Underway...

fixed it for ya
Exactly! You fall and hit your head really hard, nothing is gonna help!
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Jt$
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4/11/2019 11:44am
Well, shoot, all of these scientists and developers should just quit now, I guess. Thanks for sorting that all out.
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PRM31
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4/11/2019 11:53am
Helmets make the stop less sudden, whether it be straight in or rotational. An extra few millimeters in coming to a stop makes a big difference in the forces.

I applaud all efforts to improve helmets. I’ve broken two on my head and will likely pay a price someday.
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sandtrack315
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4/11/2019 3:21pm
Jt$ wrote:
Well, shoot, all of these scientists and developers should just quit now, I guess. Thanks for sorting that all out.
Neuroscientist here. Evolution repurposed cerebral spinal fluid for your brain to slightly rotate in during impacts. Helmet manufacturers are smart to copy one of nature’s solutions to head trauma. Unless you hit your head dead on with no rotational force (e.g., impacting flat on your back and head), it’s going to help. Dual liners for minor and extreme impacts are also very smart.

I run the new Shoei. The rotational transfer system appears better designed than the others. It also fits my head well.
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Motofinne
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4/11/2019 3:25pm
Jt$ wrote:
Well, shoot, all of these scientists and developers should just quit now, I guess. Thanks for sorting that all out.
Neuroscientist here. Evolution repurposed cerebral spinal fluid for your brain to slightly rotate in during impacts. Helmet manufacturers are smart to copy one of nature’s solutions...
Neuroscientist here. Evolution repurposed cerebral spinal fluid for your brain to slightly rotate in during impacts. Helmet manufacturers are smart to copy one of nature’s solutions to head trauma. Unless you hit your head dead on with no rotational force (e.g., impacting flat on your back and head), it’s going to help. Dual liners for minor and extreme impacts are also very smart.

I run the new Shoei. The rotational transfer system appears better designed than the others. It also fits my head well.
That is interesting! Could you explain why you think that the Shoei system is the best?

It's pretty cool that our small sport has taken these big steps forward in helmet technology.
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Mx746
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4/11/2019 3:27pm
Why don’t woodpeckers get concussions?
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sandtrack315
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4/11/2019 3:45pm
Motofinne wrote:
That is interesting! Could you explain why you think that the Shoei system is the best? It's pretty cool that our small sport has taken these...
That is interesting! Could you explain why you think that the Shoei system is the best?

It's pretty cool that our small sport has taken these big steps forward in helmet technology.
The way the two liners move in the Bell doesn't seem very stable and consistent and the range of motion seems constrained. The Shoei basically has a suspension system in it, so it can move in precisely the direction your head is moving relative to the helmet, and the movement is always exactly as they want it. I don't have any data on this, though, and they probably both work well for what they are designed.

All that being said, we are probably talking about a 5-10 percent reduction in impact? It matters, but we shouldn't have a false sense of security. Regardless, it's great that people are trying and buying. It beats what football players have.

The woodpeckers brain is actually pretty cool. Instead of cerebral spinal fluid, they have a hyoid that acts a seatbelt, and the brain is actually packed pretty tight in there with a spongy bone where our cerebral spinal fluid is. There is a ton of surface space on front, so the impact is spread out where they take the most impact. Even with all of that, when we look at woodpecker brains, they show similar signatures of football players (tau deposits). It must just be that a little brain damage has been worth their pecking ability.
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4/11/2019 10:14pm
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah almost every single high end helmet has a system in place to reduce concussions, even some low end helmets have MIPS in place. The only...
Yeah almost every single high end helmet has a system in place to reduce concussions, even some low end helmets have MIPS in place.

The only high end helmet that doesn't have anything is Arai.
I love how most people now think in order for a helmet to be safe it has to have some fancy cool contraption inside of it that has a catchy name ie mips, meds, slid, flex. Arai's helmet making methods are tried and true. They are the originators of the slow medium and high speed impact solution with their multi density eps which they have been doing (with great success) well before all these fancy helmet designs came out. The guys that make the big bucks racing, dirt and street, choose what helmet they want on their heads and I definitely see A LOT of arai's out there. Yes they are custom helmets made for only them which makes them that much safer but the material is the same that you and I would buy. Something about made in Japan and handmade just sits much better with me. When you put an arai or shoei on your head you realize why you're paying a premium for them, then when you actually use it you reeeeeally realize why your paying more. The attention to detail is insane. Being in the industry I've had the pleasure of attending seminars and meeting some very cool people who work for arai. If you ever get the chance to talk with someone at arai who really gives a shit about what they do and are passionate about helmet safety ask them what they think about all the new helmet technology going into helmets. And no they don't just dismiss it and say it's smoke and mirrors.

Like everyone I'm all for advancement in helmet technology and safety but imo arai and shoei are still the best in those departments. I do think the bell moto flex is a very cool unique helmet and there's a lot of people wearing them as well, but for whatever reason they just don't fit my head well. Attached is a pic off of arai's website that goes into some of the detail with their helmet technology...pretty cool stuff.


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Markee
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4/12/2019 6:35am
Mx746 wrote:
Why don’t woodpeckers get concussions?
Because they are stupid.
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4/12/2019 11:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2019 11:50pm
Jt$ wrote:
Well, shoot, all of these scientists and developers should just quit now, I guess. Thanks for sorting that all out.
Neuroscientist here. Evolution repurposed cerebral spinal fluid for your brain to slightly rotate in during impacts. Helmet manufacturers are smart to copy one of nature’s solutions...
Neuroscientist here. Evolution repurposed cerebral spinal fluid for your brain to slightly rotate in during impacts. Helmet manufacturers are smart to copy one of nature’s solutions to head trauma. Unless you hit your head dead on with no rotational force (e.g., impacting flat on your back and head), it’s going to help. Dual liners for minor and extreme impacts are also very smart.

I run the new Shoei. The rotational transfer system appears better designed than the others. It also fits my head well.
Its good to see that Arai also have thought about this. But i am not sold.

Firstly i have to admit that i think the rotational issue is massively over blown. Its prominent place in mainstream thought was triggered by a Judges decision in a European country. I read his comments and frankly i am not sure he knew much of what he was talking about.

https://youtu.be/ZW8_pBsGwoU
Watch the video at around 30 seconds. No way your head accelerates and rotates like that on a small skidding crash. Sure, The neck wont’t stop the initial rotation completely, but it will dampen it significantly and keep the peak acceleration well under what we see in this test. Thats why helmets have long scratch marks after a small crash if skidding has s involved.

Its not that rotation does not need to be dealt with, but i think it is ~third on the priority list. And solutions for priority two - which is absorbing energy of slower and medium speed impacts are only just being developed.

I also think EPS is not what is required for low speed impacts. It generally requires crumpling or cracking to absorb energy. The low speed impacts are the ones we have all the time when riding. From what i know if EPS is used it would need to be quite soft and you would need to throw the helmet away after even a small hit. Though it might have a place for medium speed impacts. But again - you have to throw the lid away.

What impressed me most about Bell’s helmet was the different materials that they use - EPP and EPO. At least they are trying use materials that decrease the acceleration rate significantly for lower force hits, without the lid being destined for the bin. Again not saying this is the best solution or the best materials. But this is the best direction/strategy i have seen so far.

While Arai make good helmets and i like how they optimise the shell for reducing energy going into the helmet, it am not convinced they are doing enough yet with the lining.

This is also why we need standardised / bench mark testing at different impact speeds or energy levels.

I don’t work in the industry, but i am a mech eng with lots of experience in my profession with managing energy and dynamics in very complicated systems and using materials and devices to absorb energy and control oscillations and impacts.
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4/12/2019 11:53pm
A Helmet [Snake Oil] Revolution is Underway...

fixed it for ya
I agree with you a lot with the massive focus on rotational energy of recent times as i have explained above.
I also agree this will continue a bit until there are clear benchmarks that relate to typical crash scenarios.
But don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
CPR
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4/13/2019 2:21am
Mx746 wrote:
Why don’t woodpeckers get concussions?
I dunno know about that; some of the woodpeckers here sound like they've had a few too many concussions....
sandtrack315
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4/13/2019 5:10am
I agree the focus on rotational force is likely overblown, and can only reduce impacts slightly, but it’s still an important design feature. I’d rather crash in an Arai than a cheap helmet with MIPS, though.
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