93 bench racing hypothetical.

Crush
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Crush
Just watching Gainesville 90. Rj stomped the first moto and apart from citing everyone’s height and weight, Huffman also tells us RJ is 25 years old. Got me thinking, he’d have been 28 in 93.

Sans Rj’s wrist, Bayle’s road racing wishes, Bradshaw’s burnout, Stanton’s cult diet and maybe even the Mike’s bad starts, how does MC go with those guys at full strength. No issues, just grizzled vets.

Seemed like all he needed was confidence, and he got it and never let go.

Who wins

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Scott_Bate
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Scott_Bate 11/7/2019 3:41am
11/7/2019 3:41am
10 wins in his rookie year against the best regardless of everyone else's hardships, you cannot doubt what he did in his first year 250's or the other 6 (almost 7) titles. The King is the King no one compares in SX!!!!
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 11/7/2019 4:27am
11/7/2019 4:27am
So Johnson was just 17 when he began the 82 season in the 250 nationals ? He was only a broken wheel away from winning the title that year also.
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hillbilly
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hillbilly 11/7/2019 4:59am
11/7/2019 4:59am
I was sitting on top of my cagiva school bus videoing with a huge vhs cam and caught Danny landing on rj . No idea where that tape is now.

They over water and I'd raced the day before so I let the Cali boys beat the slop off the line

No other track like that one,the wet lime rock sucked.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/7/2019 5:10am
11/7/2019 5:10am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2019 6:04pm
hillbilly wrote:
I was sitting on top of my cagiva school bus videoing with a huge vhs cam and caught Danny landing on rj . No idea where...
I was sitting on top of my cagiva school bus videoing with a huge vhs cam and caught Danny landing on rj . No idea where that tape is now.

They over water and I'd raced the day before so I let the Cali boys beat the slop off the line

No other track like that one,the wet lime rock sucked.
I must have been standing right beside you!
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 11/7/2019 5:59am
11/7/2019 5:59am
There's a lot of what ifs in there. But also remember, pros weren't really going past 28 or so back then. So I think RJ would have still been on the way out by 93. But he would have owned everything through 91 if it wasn't for that damn wrist.
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Crush
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Crush 11/7/2019 3:31pm
11/7/2019 3:31pm
mark_swart wrote:
There's a lot of what ifs in there. But also remember, pros weren't really going past 28 or so back then. So I think RJ would...
There's a lot of what ifs in there. But also remember, pros weren't really going past 28 or so back then. So I think RJ would have still been on the way out by 93. But he would have owned everything through 91 if it wasn't for that damn wrist.
Definitely a lot of ifs, it's a hypothetical.

I think MC was a force regardless, but no denying there was a bit of a hole in the sport that he filled.

Watching late 80s races, without injury I think RJ has more plates and Stanton/Bayle have less. Couldn't believe watching that Gainesville race knowing how jacked his wrist is. You watch videos of him and he's chickenwinging, it's only the throttle hand right?!
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Denn700
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Denn700 11/7/2019 3:54pm
11/7/2019 3:54pm
RJ had won 5 of 6 Supercross races before he hurt his wrist and he went wide open from start to finish like RC. Jeremy had more skill on bike but RJ had more grit. I wish we could have seen it.
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Falcon
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Falcon 11/7/2019 3:59pm
11/7/2019 3:59pm
At that level, it's mostly mental and nobody played the mental game like MC. Like mentioned before, once he got rolling it was all over.
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Bigshow
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Bigshow 11/7/2019 4:19pm
11/7/2019 4:19pm
I do not think we even remember Stanton if RJ had not gotten hurt. MC would not have won in 93 like he did with RJ on the gate. Rather he would of went on to win the other Championships after 93 is hard to say without the confidence gained in 93. I think RJ would of been in the hunt until 95.
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motoXracer971
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motoXracer971 11/7/2019 4:22pm
11/7/2019 4:22pm
I rewatch this season more than any other, hands down. I doubt MC would have won 10 races that year but I think he still wins the championship. He was on another level in SX
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Park Boys
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Park Boys 11/7/2019 4:36pm
11/7/2019 4:36pm
You take advantage of situation and MC is the king of SX. That said I always thought he came into a perfect storm so to say. RJ when he was injured was the second most dominant rider in the history of the sport form either side of the pond. Had he not gotten hurt would Yamaha have been in a huge hurry to move Bradshaw up? Regardless the last time Damon Bradshaw was really Damon Bradshaw was Red Bud 92, after that he wasn’t the same. Stanton and JMB would not have won when they did. RJ was a level ahead of Stanton at least when it came to speed. JMB was something else though so does he still try and win with RJ there or if RJ gets a minor injury and wins does he still leave? I have thought of this what if before obviously lol. I think Stanton fades anyway due to his diet and over training JMB probably wins a SX title in there anyways and is gone still by 93. Bradshaw is a huge question mark and RJ would have been old for his day so maybe MC still wins but if 92 Bradshaw raced in 93, that is the ultimate question. Outdoors though he would not have been in the same zip code as RJ IMO. LaRocco needed 25 lap races like today’s.
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Crush
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Crush 11/7/2019 4:48pm
11/7/2019 4:48pm Edited Date/Time 11/7/2019 4:50pm
Park Boys wrote:
You take advantage of situation and MC is the king of SX. That said I always thought he came into a perfect storm so to say...
You take advantage of situation and MC is the king of SX. That said I always thought he came into a perfect storm so to say. RJ when he was injured was the second most dominant rider in the history of the sport form either side of the pond. Had he not gotten hurt would Yamaha have been in a huge hurry to move Bradshaw up? Regardless the last time Damon Bradshaw was really Damon Bradshaw was Red Bud 92, after that he wasn’t the same. Stanton and JMB would not have won when they did. RJ was a level ahead of Stanton at least when it came to speed. JMB was something else though so does he still try and win with RJ there or if RJ gets a minor injury and wins does he still leave? I have thought of this what if before obviously lol. I think Stanton fades anyway due to his diet and over training JMB probably wins a SX title in there anyways and is gone still by 93. Bradshaw is a huge question mark and RJ would have been old for his day so maybe MC still wins but if 92 Bradshaw raced in 93, that is the ultimate question. Outdoors though he would not have been in the same zip code as RJ IMO. LaRocco needed 25 lap races like today’s.
That's why it's interesting though, all those guys had issues – sans any of them, fuck it could have been epic.

The sport is full of ifs and buts though, I think that's why we all love it, because it's truly so fucking hard, there are so many elements to be good, let alone great.

I've just been watching a bunch of 80s races lately... RJ was really fucking good man. The comp was tough but there are races where you can just see it.
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reded
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reded 11/7/2019 5:28pm
11/7/2019 5:28pm
No one would’ve touched McGrath indoors. He knew how to make up small increments of time that added up to an eternity at the end of the race. I loved RJ from ‘86 until the end but I don’t think he would’ve given MC any trouble.
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cable
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cable 11/7/2019 7:05pm
11/7/2019 7:05pm
swink would have smoked them all on any other bike..
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wpark89
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wpark89 11/7/2019 7:37pm
11/7/2019 7:37pm
Huge RJ fan. He would have won in 89. Maybe 90. As mentioned guys were done by 26/27 back then. The young guys were coming with such an aggressive new style.. Rick was the last era of US guys that grew up wanting to go to Europe and win. I think he’s mentioned that he wanted to do a World Championship season at the end of his career. I think Stanton and him would match up good in
90...Jeff’s hungry and strong, but didn’t have the technique of RJ. Bayle still wins 91....just too much skill to beat.

The bigger bench racing debate to me is how a wanting to race Bayle does against McGrath.
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kzizok
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kzizok 11/7/2019 7:47pm
11/7/2019 7:47pm
Im still gonna go with RJ. Obviously, he was physically talented but his mental game was incredible, maybe the best ever.

BTW, nice to have a legit thread/topic for a change.
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Sully
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Sully 11/7/2019 9:06pm
11/7/2019 9:06pm
RJ was my guy back then, but I think the outcome of this hypothetical really all depends on where JMB's head is at. When he wanted to, that guy would make the fastest riders in the world look stupid, and he'd look like he was out on a trail ride doing it.

Thanks for posting, Crush. This is a fun topic to think about.
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jeffro503
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jeffro503 11/7/2019 9:51pm
11/7/2019 9:51pm
I need to wrap my head around this whole conversation , look at the facts , variable's , evidence , ect.......like I have the past 25 - 30 years. I do know one thing , we can't ever use " what if's ". You have to go by the numbers / records , even though they definitely don't paint the whole picture.
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ehr400
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ehr400 11/8/2019 4:16am
11/8/2019 4:16am
Throw MX Kied in that mix too for the outdoors along with the Rock when they were both at Kawi.
Crush
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Crush 11/8/2019 4:35am
11/8/2019 4:35am
ehr400 wrote:
Throw MX Kied in that mix too for the outdoors along with the Rock when they were both at Kawi.
Bad use of apostrophe on my behalf. I wrote the Mike's. Meant the Mikes. I was a big MX-Kied fan!
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KHI Guy 11/8/2019 10:43am
11/8/2019 10:43am
mark_swart wrote:
There's a lot of what ifs in there. But also remember, pros weren't really going past 28 or so back then. So I think RJ would...
There's a lot of what ifs in there. But also remember, pros weren't really going past 28 or so back then. So I think RJ would have still been on the way out by 93. But he would have owned everything through 91 if it wasn't for that damn wrist.
^^^Exactly this^^^
I think he would have retired at the end of '91 or '92, so we don't see the MC/RJ showdown in '93. However, I think he would have added at least one more SX, 250 outdoor, and 500 outdoor title before he retired.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 11/8/2019 10:56am
11/8/2019 10:56am
Mc changed Sx forever by keeping much lower over triples than the other guys.... Dude was born to be the best ever indoors... Furthermore... Mc had the fresh look and attitude that propelled motocross into a second era of prosperity.... he was the original bubba, he was just that much faster than the field, but also had a head on his shoulders so he rarely crashed, so the titles racked on up...
cable
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cable 11/8/2019 7:11pm
11/8/2019 7:11pm
gt80rider wrote:
Mc changed Sx forever by keeping much lower over triples than the other guys.... Dude was born to be the best ever indoors... Furthermore... Mc had...
Mc changed Sx forever by keeping much lower over triples than the other guys.... Dude was born to be the best ever indoors... Furthermore... Mc had the fresh look and attitude that propelled motocross into a second era of prosperity.... he was the original bubba, he was just that much faster than the field, but also had a head on his shoulders so he rarely crashed, so the titles racked on up...
He couldnt keep the 97 rm lower... Do you think MC wins on a 1993 rm250? He probably would have, unless the bike killed his confidence.

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