500 2 strokes

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6/29/2010 6:29 PM

How do people feel about 500's being able to race in the 450 class??

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6/29/2010 6:45 PM

It would be fine with me. I'd welcome it with open arms and a huge grin. It's an open class bike anyway.

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6/29/2010 6:48 PM

No problems with me. I think the large bore class should be open.

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Jim Martin

6/29/2010 6:48 PM

More HP, more Torque and reliable as a clawhammer all stuffed into a modern chassis, I'm in.

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1998 Honda Z50
1994 Honda CR125
1996 Honda CR250
2000 Honda CR500

6/29/2010 6:54 PM

Anyone who didn't see my 2 cents worth coming? I'M ALL OVER THAT IDEA!!! That would be a great privateer option. See what they are made of.

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6/29/2010 7:06 PM

I think we're howling at the moon, but I would love to see the premier class return to an open (or 500cc) class.

Run whatever you want - the bike that gets you the best lap times and to the front of the pack at the end of the moto will weed out the inferior machines, and there will be no need to set arbitrary limits.

A point of interest for you younger guys - years back, experience taught that the maximum displacement did not necessarily yield the best lap times or moto wins. Maico riders learned the 400 was a preferable motor than the mighty 450. IIRC, Suzuki and Bultaco both evolved to mid-300cc motors. But let anything run - if a team wants to run a larger displacement, let them - if they can make it work, more power to them

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Tony

6/29/2010 7:13 PM

That would be fine but I doubt anyone would run them . 500 2 strokes are legal in the mx3 gp class and no one runs them . They could run CR 500 AFs if they wanted . Everyone runs 450s in that class now even though they're allowed up to 650cc 4 strokes.

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6/29/2010 7:14 PM

I'm all for it. I personally think the Homo rule should be thrown out the window. Or a least lowered to 25-50 units. Would be cool to see what some small mfgs. could bring to the table. Of course Honda would have no part of that, right DC??? They'd threaten to take all their toys and go homo......I mean home.

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6/29/2010 7:25 PM

Thats so simple it just might work, and why not bring back the 125s (well I guess there's still a 125 class but has 250s in it, go figure?)

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Any more than 2 strokes is a wank!

6/29/2010 8:28 PM

prillernut wrote:

I think we're howling at the moon, but I would love to see the premier class return to an open (or 500cc) class.

Run ...more

2 classes, run what you brung.
Support and Premier class, no cc or stroke restrictions in either.
Support champ must move up to Premier.
Outside top ten in Premier allowed to move down.
Top 10 finishers year before get assigned #'s, the rest get to choose from what's left. But they have to keep that # until a top ten is accomplished.
It's all about the Premier class, support class only gets mentioned and hardly any tv time, so we know who's 'coming' to Premier class.
Also so all the money is in the Premier class. I want to see Mitch race his bikes in the Premier class, what ever size and stroke he sees fit.

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6/29/2010 8:44 PM

Last summer at a pretty big race in St Louis area a kid(that has quailified for night programs) rode a new chassis bike with a 500 motor. End of the day, he said thanks, but no thanks.

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6/29/2010 8:56 PM

That's what most of the kids say these days. They've all been 4 stroke brainwashed. wink

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6/29/2010 8:59 PM

ky_savage wrote:

That's what most of the kids say these days. They've all been 4 stroke brainwashed. wink

Nostalgia is overrated.
I think the big bore should be an open class, but if it were, I don't think you would see a lot of change.

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Jim Martin

6/29/2010 9:00 PM

Like I said....... Brainwashed.

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6/29/2010 9:03 PM

Seriously though. If I had bikes given to me, and had someone else footing the bill on upkeep I'd probably ride a 4 stroke too.

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6/29/2010 9:11 PM

ky_savage wrote:

That's what most of the kids say these days. They've all been 4 stroke brainwashed. wink

jmar wrote:

Nostalgia is overrated.
I think the big bore should be an open class, but if it were, I don't think you would see a lot of ...more

Yeah, boys I'm afraid they've gotten the modern 4t motocrosser so powerful and so capable, that most people would just stick with the 4t. It also puts it to the ground better & and is generally agreed easier to ride.
Don't get me wrong, the 2t open class bike would leave a 450 4t for dead in a drag race.

But that 2t open class motocrosser would take more out of you trying to stay on top of it & correction. I just don't see that many people switching. Although I do miss the sights and sounds of an open class 2t motocross race!

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6/29/2010 9:24 PM

Many local riders here are leaving the 4T for dead. Not for a 500 2T, but some of the smaller 2T's.

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6/29/2010 9:43 PM

In a Pro AMA open class, I really think the thumpers would continue to rule the roost, just as they have in the MX3 class for over a decade.

In the 250 class, there would be some real excitement with varied bikes for varied conditions. Despite their hp advantage, I don't think the pingers would obliterate the valve munchers.

The 125 class needs to be brought back.

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6/29/2010 9:51 PM

Matt Fisher wrote:

In a Pro AMA open class, I really think the thumpers would continue to rule the roost, just as they have in the MX3 class for ...more

My exact thoughts, it would be simple to do today.

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"Welcome to Southern California......the mecca of motocross racing." ~ Jason Wiegant

6/29/2010 11:06 PM

not enough clout.

oem's will and still will block it at every chance.

it's to bad as they would be great for small privateer teams.

just glad the amatuer classes are fine the way they are and work good.

oh and well i will say it first.


"not this shit again"..................... smile

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6/30/2010 5:14 AM

Like I said in the last thread about this, where are you going to get 125 riders from? The only people who still race them are kids in the Schoolboy class, and they're certainly not going to follow the AMA circuit around. If you made it a pro class I bet you wouldn't even draw 10 racers.

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6/30/2010 6:01 AM

Shawn142 wrote:

Like I said in the last thread about this, where are you going to get 125 riders from? The only people who still race them are ...more

If there was a 125/150 Pro class at the national level, I would offer up a bike for someone to race.

You really think only ten people would show up? All these kids at the Ponca and Loretta level that could get themselves seen at the next step instead of just disappearing like they currently do? I would bet there would be a good number of families who would support a 125 class that have currently given up on trying to field a 250F effort against the likes of Pro-Circuit and Factory Connection.

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6/30/2010 7:25 AM

hey they already travel the country, get home or motorhome schooled, and well you would have to qualify them to get to only have 40 on the gate.

you put a 125/150 class as a support at the nationals it would put to much competition towards the qualifier national amatuer system so it won't happen......they know better then to compete with themselves.........................

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6/30/2010 7:49 AM

The 125 class problem is easy to fix.

1 moto, 20 minutes plus 1 lap. For the kids just getting off 85's and for amateurs not yet accustomed to the longer Pro motos it would be a perfect stepping stone. Have age and/or time in grade restrictions to keep sandbagging to a minimum. Maybe even make it a claimer class to keep the cost down.

I believe that if properly implemented you'd have 60+ riders trying to qualify week after week.

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6/30/2010 7:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/30/2010 7:58 AM

I'd be all for it. But anyone who thinks it's a better option than a 450 is kidding themselves. Look back to when there was 125, 250, and 500 classes. The 250s always ran faster times. The bike is harder to ride than a 250 much less a modern 450.

The updated chassis helps a ton, no doubt. But to try and hang on to a 500 for 30min+2 is not an easy task. If you're in good enough shape to do that, you might as well ride the 450 and you'll be a ton faster and won't be tired at the end of a moto.

I have one. I was much faster and am still more comfortable on my '09 CRF450. The bikes a blast to ride and makes the 450 feel like a 250f after switching back but there's a reason they quit racing them.

Look at the GPs. They have an open class and nobody rides the 500 two stroke. It sounds great. I'd back the idea. But, it's not very practical.

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6/30/2010 8:15 AM

I do think that that the premier class should be an open class and also lose the homologation rule. Let em run whatever they want and actually develop the bike so that our bikes get better not just different every year. Really the only limit the teams have now is that they have to run a stock geometry chassis and parts that are available to the public. Leave the 250 Class homologated pretty much the way it is and let the 2 strokes compete, yes I said it, 250 2 strokes. Really the only 2 strokes you will see will be privateers because we know the factories will not support them. I wanna see some one off swingarms and chassis. You wanna bring fans to the races, give us something to look at that we don't already have sitting in the garage.

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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system and too soon to shoot the bastards."

6/30/2010 9:17 AM

It depended on the track whether a 250 turned faster lap times than a 500. Keep in mind besides minor BS upgrades the CR500 remained unchanged since around 91'. The following is one reason you won't see 500s allowed against 450s. The better the rider, the bigger the difference was.

[LINK TO IMAGE]

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1998 Honda Z50
1994 Honda CR125
1996 Honda CR250
2000 Honda CR500

6/30/2010 9:20 AM

It depended on the track whether a 250 turned faster lap times than a 500. Keep in mind besides minor BS upgrades the CR500 remained unchanged since around 91'. The following is one reason you won't see 500s allowed against 450s. The better the rider, the bigger the difference was.

[LINK TO IMAGE]

Here's the story in PDF form. Just think if these riders had a month to really get used to the bike.

CR500AF vs CRF450

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1998 Honda Z50
1994 Honda CR125
1996 Honda CR250
2000 Honda CR500

6/30/2010 9:22 AM

CR500Rider wrote:

It depended on the track whether a 250 turned faster lap times than a 500. Keep in mind besides minor BS upgrades the CR500 ...more

I wonder what the lap times would be from lap 10 on in a 30+2 race.

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Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

6/30/2010 9:22 AM

bringing in "2 strokes" would take courage and would be something that would go against the grain of what oem's want to push.

and would likley be cool, but not a good business move.

we have this in amatuer racing it works fine, we pushed hard for ten years to bring it to where it is today......................... NEVER did we expect pro to follow suit, and honestly as much as I would like to see smokers allowed AT LEAST IN THE 450 class the 500's would be cool to see. I realize that the last national i ever attended was red bud 1989 and it was 250\'s, never been back.

in 1988, a couple privateers ran top ten at the red bud 500 national, it was cool to watch. one on an air cooled yamaha. so inspiring.

today 450's with out 500's out there racing is ok i guess but doesn't inpire me or my group to go watch the race.................so we are cooking out and 50 some friends will ride saturday and have fun at the riding park instead.

maybe some day we will venture out again, but the discussion yesterday was na no big deal.

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