#5 first moto first turn

DP#201
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Edited Date/Time 8/19/2014 12:15pm
Dont know if this has been posted allready, but how can it be okey for dungey to skip the first two coners after the start, and then rejoin in 5th, without getting some kind of penalty? He surely got a huge advantage. I bet if it had been #94, he would have got some kind of penalty..

Like Webb last week in dilla... Just shoot for the turn, if you miss your braking point, just go the long way around... not much to loose..
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peelout
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8/17/2014 10:17am
I thought for sure he was going to be buried deep in the pack, was very surprised he came out in 5th..
DP#201
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8/17/2014 10:19am
kongols wrote:
Who would protest him? KTM?
i thought the same :-) .. but it shouldent be nessesery, it was THAT obvious..

The Shop

philG
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8/17/2014 10:24am
Blatant cheating... they should have a timing wire in the jump, and if you dont go over it , you are DQ'd... this is why 180 first turns are better... nothing to gain from going off track , although they still did it at Millville , so put a proper fence there, and stop it straight away..
8/17/2014 10:28am
philG wrote:
Blatant cheating... they should have a timing wire in the jump, and if you dont go over it , you are DQ'd... this is why 180...
Blatant cheating... they should have a timing wire in the jump, and if you dont go over it , you are DQ'd... this is why 180 first turns are better... nothing to gain from going off track , although they still did it at Millville , so put a proper fence there, and stop it straight away..
Who wants 180 starts save that for supercross
Robgvx
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8/17/2014 10:34am
Any videos?
Any videos?
DP#201 wrote:
http://www.promotocross.com/mx/event/indiana-2014/video/indiana-450-moto-1-ken-roczen-take-motosportcom-holeshot
So, you can swap your brains out while in fifth place, just about save it (while going clean off the track), and have half the pack go by you. But that's OK because you then just cut 200 yards out to re-join in the same position as before you nearly crashed?

As Phil said, blatant cheating. It shouldn't need a protest. That's what officials should be policing.

They old rule oF re-joining where you left the track should be reinstated IMO.

DP#201
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8/17/2014 10:39am
Robgvx wrote:
So, you can swap your brains out while in fifth place, just about save it (while going clean off the track), and have half the pack...
So, you can swap your brains out while in fifth place, just about save it (while going clean off the track), and have half the pack go by you. But that's OK because you then just cut 200 yards out to re-join in the same position as before you nearly crashed?

As Phil said, blatant cheating. It shouldn't need a protest. That's what officials should be policing.

They old rule oF re-joining where you left the track should be reinstated IMO.

My thoughts exactly.. I was suprised no one mentioned it in the broadcast.
MxKing809
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8/17/2014 10:43am
If he beat Roczen that Moto and tightened up the points, you bet your ass he would have been protested
bvm111
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8/17/2014 10:52am
Wow.... Really?

Where was he supposed to go?

He swapped so hard in foot deep mud, explain to me what else he was suppose to do? Add to that there were banners all the way around the area he rode how else was he supposed to re enter the track?

It's funny how every week you same guys come on here and clame what was "obvious" or "blatant cheating" maybe the teams need to hire you guys to ensure the rules are followed with absolute black and white accuracy since the AMA, MX sports, and all the teams obviously can't perform this duty!
kongols
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8/17/2014 11:04am
bvm111 wrote:
Wow.... Really? Where was he supposed to go? He swapped so hard in foot deep mud, explain to me what else he was suppose to do...
Wow.... Really?

Where was he supposed to go?

He swapped so hard in foot deep mud, explain to me what else he was suppose to do? Add to that there were banners all the way around the area he rode how else was he supposed to re enter the track?

It's funny how every week you same guys come on here and clame what was "obvious" or "blatant cheating" maybe the teams need to hire you guys to ensure the rules are followed with absolute black and white accuracy since the AMA, MX sports, and all the teams obviously can't perform this duty!
Banner was at least 10-15 feet ahead of the point he ran off the track, was it not? He never tried to pull back on to the track.

motomike137
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8/17/2014 11:08am
He didn't re-enter in 5th. About 1/3 into the lap I counted him 7th or 8th. I've watched it over a few times now and watching him in slow mo he didn't have a lot of choice but go off the track. Right after that you see him come around in 9th or 10th on the other side of the banners. Can't spot him again until the slow right hand 180 where I couldn't be sure whether he was 7 or 8.
DP#201
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8/17/2014 11:11am
He didn't re-enter in 5th. About 1/3 into the lap I counted him 7th or 8th. I've watched it over a few times now and watching...
He didn't re-enter in 5th. About 1/3 into the lap I counted him 7th or 8th. I've watched it over a few times now and watching him in slow mo he didn't have a lot of choice but go off the track. Right after that you see him come around in 9th or 10th on the other side of the banners. Can't spot him again until the slow right hand 180 where I couldn't be sure whether he was 7 or 8.
sorry.. 5th'ish.. still nowhere neare where he would be if he had done the jump..
motomike137
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8/17/2014 11:14am
He didn't re-enter in 5th. About 1/3 into the lap I counted him 7th or 8th. I've watched it over a few times now and watching...
He didn't re-enter in 5th. About 1/3 into the lap I counted him 7th or 8th. I've watched it over a few times now and watching him in slow mo he didn't have a lot of choice but go off the track. Right after that you see him come around in 9th or 10th on the other side of the banners. Can't spot him again until the slow right hand 180 where I couldn't be sure whether he was 7 or 8.
DP#201 wrote:
sorry.. 5th'ish.. still nowhere neare where he would be if he had done the jump..
Takes a little of the air out of you and your buddies screaming about blatant cheating. He came back on a little worse off than where he was when he went off.
DP#201
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8/17/2014 11:22am
Takes a little of the air out of you and your buddies screaming about blatant cheating. He came back on a little worse off than where...
Takes a little of the air out of you and your buddies screaming about blatant cheating. He came back on a little worse off than where he was when he went off.
He was 8th, when exiting the track.. Dont see any air leaking here..
CBird81
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8/17/2014 11:30am
Im a big Dungey fan.. But he went off the track. many other riders who managed to stay on the track came out worse off than he did, it would seem like he gained an advantage.
bd
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8/17/2014 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2014 12:20pm
kongols wrote:
Who would protest him? KTM?
Although KTM would not protest, Honda should protest. If Dungey is docked, Canard wins the O/A.

bd
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8/17/2014 12:58pm
Dart Board wrote:
That was a pretty blatant advantage.
Without question.... he cut the track to limit the bleeding (he almost comes to a stop). He lost momentum and cut across the track. He was not pushed off the track.
GuyB
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8/17/2014 2:12pm
kongols wrote:
Banner was at least 10-15 feet ahead of the point he ran off the track, was it not? He never tried to pull back on to...
Banner was at least 10-15 feet ahead of the point he ran off the track, was it not? He never tried to pull back on to the track.

Jeez, people see what they want to see on these.

I saw a guy that was out of control trying not to get stuck in the muck on the side of the track.

Talking with Noren this morning in the airport, he said one of the things that Honda's team manager, Dan Betley told him was, "Don't get on the edges of the track." They'd pushed the slop off to the side. If Ryan had tried to get back on, he'd have likely gotten hung up in the goop.
bd
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8/17/2014 2:18pm
kongols wrote:
Banner was at least 10-15 feet ahead of the point he ran off the track, was it not? He never tried to pull back on to...
Banner was at least 10-15 feet ahead of the point he ran off the track, was it not? He never tried to pull back on to the track.

GuyB wrote:
Jeez, people see what they want to see on these. I saw a guy that was out of control trying not to get stuck in the...
Jeez, people see what they want to see on these.

I saw a guy that was out of control trying not to get stuck in the muck on the side of the track.

Talking with Noren this morning in the airport, he said one of the things that Honda's team manager, Dan Betley told him was, "Don't get on the edges of the track." They'd pushed the slop off to the side. If Ryan had tried to get back on, he'd have likely gotten hung up in the goop.
I definitely see your point of view. That said, he made an error (he went to the edge of track got caught in the slop and went to snail pace) and with an error there is cost. The pack left him, he cut the track and did not lose many positions.

Now, I seriously doubt anything will come from this, this is the AMA Racing we are talking about.

On another note: did you MB Red Rock Canyon the last time you were in Vegas?


philG
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8/17/2014 2:35pm
GuyB wrote:
Jeez, people see what they want to see on these. I saw a guy that was out of control trying not to get stuck in the...
Jeez, people see what they want to see on these.

I saw a guy that was out of control trying not to get stuck in the muck on the side of the track.

Talking with Noren this morning in the airport, he said one of the things that Honda's team manager, Dan Betley told him was, "Don't get on the edges of the track." They'd pushed the slop off to the side. If Ryan had tried to get back on, he'd have likely gotten hung up in the goop.
indeed they do...

RD blew wide on the start, and nearly crashed in the slop, but then keeps it pinned and cuts the track , to come on hardly any further back... he missed the jump !!

The problem here is that the AMA do nothing to stop it , until they do , it will carry on , and people will take advantage.

Lets say this was the last round of the series, and that Kroc did it and it gave him the points he needed... would that be ok too?

GuyB
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8/17/2014 2:39pm
kroc's 20 ahead now. How many more does he need?

I see a lot of hand-wringing over hypotheticals, but not much else.
yak651
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8/17/2014 2:50pm
standards have been set last couple of years with riders going off the track and no penalty, with the conditions on Saturday no way they would penalize him for that
philG
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8/17/2014 2:51pm
GuyB wrote:
kroc's 20 ahead now. How many more does he need?

I see a lot of hand-wringing over hypotheticals, but not much else.
i meant that somewhere down the line, championships are won or lost by a point , and this type of thing makes the difference.

I know its 'what if's' but the rules need sorting . lose the stupid holeshot gantry and make the track wide enough , and banner it so you cant cut . Not difficult.
8/17/2014 2:56pm
Ryan should've (well on this occasion he shouldn't because as it happened he got away with it) angled to the right and ridden straight back onto the race track. He had the room to do it (as is clear in the footage) but I think he panicked in the moment as the rest of the pack began to sweep by, and didn't fancy trying to regain all his lost momentum at the beginning of the first up hill. In others words he broke the rules but got away with it. Not hating on the guy at all, I think he's a great ambassador for the sport and is obviously a fantastic rider. But there it is. We all make mistakes. In future though something needs to definitely be done to tighten up the rules on this for next year, of course imo.
bigborefan
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8/17/2014 3:07pm
RD said at the race his holeshot device did not release.

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