450’s too fast, fact or fiction?

keinz
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4/6/2018 12:17pm
Liter of votka also too mutch. You don't have to drink it all
JBecker 72
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4/6/2018 12:55pm
I love my 450. The new breed are so easy to ride and are very low maintenance. And I really wouldn’t say it’s too fast. Yeah it has some grunt, but it’s manageable and smooth.

I still think the 350F is probably the ideal bike though. Wish the Japanese made them.
potatoflake
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4/6/2018 1:14pm
They are definetly too much if you don’t have a filter between your right hand and brain imo.
lumpy790
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4/6/2018 3:09pm
If my 450 is to fast I change the switches to a calmer setting. So far have not needed to do anything but ride it.

The Shop

Jack_Mehoff
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4/6/2018 3:28pm
450s aren't that fast. I'm 185 pounds so I'm on he heavy side, but I've had newer ktm 250s and 350s and they do not have enough power when the track gets deep and I have to ride the piss out of them to make them go anywhere. My husky 450 has just enough power where you don't really need any more, but it's not overwhelming by any means. I still ride it very aggressively. They are given a bad rap by scrawny ass C riders or old guys who should be on an xr100 anyways. A fast rider can rip on anything. The bike matters way less than a lot of you think. thats not to say small bikes aren't fun or even essential to becoming a good rider, they have their place but so do 450s. Now quit your bitching and ride what you want
mx317
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4/6/2018 4:25pm
450s aren't that fast. I'm 185 pounds so I'm on he heavy side, but I've had newer ktm 250s and 350s and they do not have...
450s aren't that fast. I'm 185 pounds so I'm on he heavy side, but I've had newer ktm 250s and 350s and they do not have enough power when the track gets deep and I have to ride the piss out of them to make them go anywhere. My husky 450 has just enough power where you don't really need any more, but it's not overwhelming by any means. I still ride it very aggressively. They are given a bad rap by scrawny ass C riders or old guys who should be on an xr100 anyways. A fast rider can rip on anything. The bike matters way less than a lot of you think. thats not to say small bikes aren't fun or even essential to becoming a good rider, they have their place but so do 450s. Now quit your bitching and ride what you want
There are some old guys that could probably beat your on an XR100.
H4L
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4/6/2018 5:53pm
450s aren't that fast. I'm 185 pounds so I'm on he heavy side, but I've had newer ktm 250s and 350s and they do not have...
450s aren't that fast. I'm 185 pounds so I'm on he heavy side, but I've had newer ktm 250s and 350s and they do not have enough power when the track gets deep and I have to ride the piss out of them to make them go anywhere. My husky 450 has just enough power where you don't really need any more, but it's not overwhelming by any means. I still ride it very aggressively. They are given a bad rap by scrawny ass C riders or old guys who should be on an xr100 anyways. A fast rider can rip on anything. The bike matters way less than a lot of you think. thats not to say small bikes aren't fun or even essential to becoming a good rider, they have their place but so do 450s. Now quit your bitching and ride what you want
mx317 wrote:
There are some old guys that could probably beat your on an XR100.
4/6/2018 6:11pm
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential.

Are they easy as fuck to ride? You betcha. Great bikes for slow people with little skill level.
Titan1
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4/6/2018 6:13pm
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential. Are they easy as fuck...
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential.

Are they easy as fuck to ride? You betcha. Great bikes for slow people with little skill level.
If they are easy to ride, why can’t you ride them to their full potential?
TeamGreen
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4/6/2018 7:34pm
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential. Are they easy as fuck...
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential.

Are they easy as fuck to ride? You betcha. Great bikes for slow people with little skill level.
Titan1 wrote:
If they are easy to ride, why can’t you ride them to their full potential?
'Cause, the damn tracks are too small!

Laughing
Tryhard
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4/6/2018 7:45pm
The last 450 i honestly rode , was not a 450 . It t'was a 426f and anything even the modern 450s have to be better then that piece of shit nose heavy death trap . I have considered riding some buddies 450s but i honetly dont think im a good enough rider ...250f has always been enough to make me happy and clear every jump where ever i go .
gt80rider
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4/6/2018 7:51pm
RCMXracing wrote:
I say fiction. I laugh when people say only elite pro riders, or 1% can use the full potential of a 450. Nonsense. Torque gives you...
I say fiction. I laugh when people say only elite pro riders, or 1% can use the full potential of a 450. Nonsense. Torque gives you acceleration, the 450 has loads of it and I use it! Sandy, deep conditions and jumps out of corners I’m stretching the cable on several sections and my dry weight is only 185. The “experts” like Matthes are spreading this myth that 450’s are too powerful. Stop it.
Having said all that for indoors is a 450 necessary? Of course not, and the racing would be just as good on a 350...still huck quads. Woohoo And I say just as good, NOT better on a smaller cc machine. Is 250F racing better than 450F? IMO it’s not about the machine size at all.
Rides 450 below 6k, claims he can handle all the power... Lol
TeamGreen
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4/6/2018 8:04pm
RCMXracing wrote:
I say fiction. I laugh when people say only elite pro riders, or 1% can use the full potential of a 450. Nonsense. Torque gives you...
I say fiction. I laugh when people say only elite pro riders, or 1% can use the full potential of a 450. Nonsense. Torque gives you acceleration, the 450 has loads of it and I use it! Sandy, deep conditions and jumps out of corners I’m stretching the cable on several sections and my dry weight is only 185. The “experts” like Matthes are spreading this myth that 450’s are too powerful. Stop it.
Having said all that for indoors is a 450 necessary? Of course not, and the racing would be just as good on a 350...still huck quads. Woohoo And I say just as good, NOT better on a smaller cc machine. Is 250F racing better than 450F? IMO it’s not about the machine size at all.
gt80rider wrote:
Rides 450 below 6k, claims he can handle all the power... Lol
RMZs pull pretty good down at 6K.
Tim507
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4/6/2018 8:12pm
It's not how much you have or not have - rather it is how you use it.......
4/6/2018 10:09pm
Pretty sure JS7 said on the pulp show a few years back that the 4strokes and 450's were too fast and made everyone lazy, that bike setup made up for a lack of skill, and a few other things.
4/7/2018 2:03am
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential. Are they easy as fuck...
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential.

Are they easy as fuck to ride? You betcha. Great bikes for slow people with little skill level.
Titan1 wrote:
If they are easy to ride, why can’t you ride them to their full potential?
Easy to ride means people with low talent can come out of any corner and do any jump in 2nd gear because the bike makes damn near perfect, predictable traction. 450’s are amazing bikes in that they make riding extremely easy (if I go to let’s say...Village Creek and hit every obstacle second lap in maybe third gear half throttle or less, either the track is too small, which it isn’t, or the bike is too powerful, which it is)

HOWEVER riding a bike to its full absolute potential and just riding a bike are two different things. I can say that I without a doubt can over ride a 125. Can’t on a 450.

Local tracks have become pedestrian because of how easy 450 bikes have made them.

That’s why I ride a 250.

A post shared by Jeff Crutcher (@rippinruts) on Aug 7, 2017 at 7:24am PDT

Crush
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4/7/2018 4:56am
Since the classes became all four strokes, which class has consistently produced better racing?

And now a factory 250f is as fast as what the heroes raced in the 80s/90s/00s... And it's odd everyone worked out before the half litre class sucked when the tech got better and the bikes too much.

450s are probably the perfect MX/SX weapon for the 1% who can ride there and not ragdoll themselves to injury... but do we need perfect for great racing? There are lots of arguments to keep them for costs etc but I don't think the racing is being helped by the power of them at all.
JMX82
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4/7/2018 5:51am
Yeah it's funny when guys say that I can use 450's full potential when they are going main straight with 3rd gear wide open and never change any gears during whole lap. When you are using the full potential of the bike you will be doing the same with fifth gear Smile
Crush
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4/7/2018 6:16am
keinz wrote:
Liter of votka also too mutch. You don't have to drink it all
Good times tho innit.
4/7/2018 6:31am
I have seen the fastest lap times at the Australian flat track titles been set by the 250 class on a track with a top speed of 110kph. This track has 2 corners and 2 straights. If you think you need more power than a 450 you are kidding yourself. You probably need less.
4/7/2018 6:34am
Crush wrote:
Since the classes became all four strokes, which class has consistently produced better racing? And now a factory 250f is as fast as what the heroes...
Since the classes became all four strokes, which class has consistently produced better racing?

And now a factory 250f is as fast as what the heroes raced in the 80s/90s/00s... And it's odd everyone worked out before the half litre class sucked when the tech got better and the bikes too much.

450s are probably the perfect MX/SX weapon for the 1% who can ride there and not ragdoll themselves to injury... but do we need perfect for great racing? There are lots of arguments to keep them for costs etc but I don't think the racing is being helped by the power of them at all.
Good call. I remember troy Carroll winning 250 2t races on 250 4t back in the day.
jonesaustin
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4/7/2018 6:52am
Crush wrote:
Since the classes became all four strokes, which class has consistently produced better racing? And now a factory 250f is as fast as what the heroes...
Since the classes became all four strokes, which class has consistently produced better racing?

And now a factory 250f is as fast as what the heroes raced in the 80s/90s/00s... And it's odd everyone worked out before the half litre class sucked when the tech got better and the bikes too much.

450s are probably the perfect MX/SX weapon for the 1% who can ride there and not ragdoll themselves to injury... but do we need perfect for great racing? There are lots of arguments to keep them for costs etc but I don't think the racing is being helped by the power of them at all.
Well the 1% do seem to be ragdolling their way to injury right and left though.

When we think of "speed" on a bike it's usually in relation to other riders, but in this case the actual miles-per-hour speed is faster, though not more exciting to watch, so the injuries are obviously more traumatic. Cole Seely's crash didn't even look that scary if I recall, but those are some grisly internal injuries he sustained.

Just a theory, but was the pecking order more rightly established on 2 strokes? Since they weren't as forgiving or easy to go fast on, are more riders who wouldn't have made it into the 1% 20 years ago getting into that echelon now?
Bry145
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4/7/2018 7:36am
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential. Are they easy as fuck...
Fact. I’m late to this convo but I’m a local pro rider and can’t harness a 450 to its full potential.

Are they easy as fuck to ride? You betcha. Great bikes for slow people with little skill level.
Titan1 wrote:
If they are easy to ride, why can’t you ride them to their full potential?
TeamGreen wrote:
'Cause, the damn tracks are too small!

Laughing
How many 450 riders hit 5th gear and 10,000 RPM on a motocross track? I'm guessing that is about 80MPH.

Wouldn't that be "full potential" of the machine?

450s allow slow riders to go fast. And of course crash very hard. Put those same riders on a 125 or 250cc two-strokes and see what happens to lap times. Roger DeCoster said smooth tracks allow slow riders to go fast. 450s accomplish the same thing.

There is nothing wrong with being slow. Everyone is slow compared to someone, aside from the upper 1%. I do not claim to be fast regardless of bike. But a back to back comparison had me a 4 seconds a lap faster on a friend's 2012 KX450 than on my 2016 YZ250. And I was being careful on the 450 as to not crash my friend's bike. I do not think I could turn a better lap time on my YZ250 than the 450, regardless of effort/risk/lines, ect. It's just plain easier on the 450 to get around the track. The YZ is more fun. The KX450 is faster.

We need to accept that slow riders are less slow on 450s. Ride what you like, but that 58HP and mile-wide powerband is the reason Joe Schmoe can get around the track at a decent pace. Put Joe on a 250 2-stroke, and all of a sudden lap times increase. Coincidence?

That said, buy what you like, burn some laps, and let's keep this sport alive for future generations. I believe in freedom of choice! If you like a 450 buy one and hope she doesn't grenade. I don't want to charge 2K on the Visa for a rebuild, so I ride a YZ. $250 for a rebuild is some OT at work and paying the gas bill a month late.







H4L
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4/7/2018 7:49am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 8:53am
JMX82 wrote:
Yeah it's funny when guys say that I can use 450's full potential when they are going main straight with 3rd gear wide open and never...
Yeah it's funny when guys say that I can use 450's full potential when they are going main straight with 3rd gear wide open and never change any gears during whole lap. When you are using the full potential of the bike you will be doing the same with fifth gear Smile
Agree. This has been my thoughts as well. Ride a bone stock 450 in 5th gear @ WOT in the entire track & then you can say you have used the full potential.

I remember riding my 1st 450 (05 CRF) that was bone stock. I found out that they have a 2nd boost of power that kicks in the upper revs. If you don't respect it, it will put you in the ER like it did to me in 07. I haven't fully recovered from that crash 100 %..
Bry145
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4/7/2018 8:29am
H4L wrote:
Agree. This has been my thoughts as well. Ride a bone stock 450 in 5th gear @ WOT in the entire track & then you can...
Agree. This has been my thoughts as well. Ride a bone stock 450 in 5th gear @ WOT in the entire track & then you can say you have used the full potential.

I remember riding my 1st 450 (05 CRF) that was bone stock. I found out that they have a 2nd boost of power that kicks in the upper revs. If you don't respect it, it will put you in the ER like it did to me in 07. I haven't fully recovered from that crash 100 %..
After a few ugly crashes and a 3K rebuild, I'll never buy a 450 again. I traded in a white-collar salary slave job for an enjoyable blue-collar gig, so my riding funds are limited as well. I'd rather make less and ride a two-stroke.

I think it is more enjoyable to ride a 250 2-stroke and the challenge of finessing the throttle/clutch/gears is quite a challenge. If I get whiskey throttle or out of control I can yank the leash and get her back in control. My crashes are few, and usually an embarassing tip-over in a corner.

The 450 was like a blackjack to the back of the head in a dark alley. I'd be going pretty good (for me) then without warning I'd be on the ground. And they are more expensive to purchase and operate.

I'd rather date a normal and affordable chick who is a 7 than a szichophrenic supermodel 10 who packs a blade and is willing to use it without warning. Which one is the motocross equivalent?

exbmxmx
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4/7/2018 8:43am
This is what I want...

A 450 for the start and the first half lap and then a 250f for the remaining 3.5 laps, in my opinion that would be perfect.
H4L
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4/7/2018 8:51am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 9:18am
Bry145 wrote:
After a few ugly crashes and a 3K rebuild, I'll never buy a 450 again. I traded in a white-collar salary slave job for an enjoyable...
After a few ugly crashes and a 3K rebuild, I'll never buy a 450 again. I traded in a white-collar salary slave job for an enjoyable blue-collar gig, so my riding funds are limited as well. I'd rather make less and ride a two-stroke.

I think it is more enjoyable to ride a 250 2-stroke and the challenge of finessing the throttle/clutch/gears is quite a challenge. If I get whiskey throttle or out of control I can yank the leash and get her back in control. My crashes are few, and usually an embarassing tip-over in a corner.

The 450 was like a blackjack to the back of the head in a dark alley. I'd be going pretty good (for me) then without warning I'd be on the ground. And they are more expensive to purchase and operate.

I'd rather date a normal and affordable chick who is a 7 than a szichophrenic supermodel 10 who packs a blade and is willing to use it without warning. Which one is the motocross equivalent?

Laughing I like your comparison..

I've owned (5) other 450's with recently purchasing an 18 CRF & do like them. Unfortunately I learned the hard way to respect the power early on when the 450 was in its developmental stages. lesson learned on my part as I was trying to ride it like my 250 2t & you just can't do that. You have to use the torque it makes to its advantage in the lower to mid revs instead of trying to ride in the higher revs like a 2t..

Glad to hear your still riding. I never got into the debates of 2t vs. 4t since I've owned both & feel like everyone has a choice. It sometimes can come down to personal preference of the 2.

Crush
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4/7/2018 8:52am
Good call. I remember troy Carroll winning 250 2t races on 250 4t back in the day.
Not gonna lie, I fell out of MX, into MTB about the time Carrol was peaking here and wasn't back till Reedy really attacked the GPs... even then was mainly following him, Byrner and Sharky. If that's true wouldn't surprise me, he was ripping on the CDR bike with the Ohlins whenever it was I went to Appin to flag the nationals... 01 maybe?

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