3D printing in moto

logan_140
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1/27/2016 9:56am Edited Date/Time 2/1/2016 10:04pm


Imagine just making your own clutch lever. Or any part on the bike? What do you think ?
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colintrax
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1/27/2016 10:02am
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
hvaughn88
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1/27/2016 10:02am
I think it's awesome. The more refined this process gets, the more the sky is the limit.
hvaughn88
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1/27/2016 10:03am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
For now. I have a feeling that will change and get much, much better.
logan_140
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1/27/2016 10:06am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
hvaughn88 wrote:
For now. I have a feeling that will change and get much, much better.
Like anything new, it will take time

The Shop

colintrax
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1/27/2016 10:06am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
hvaughn88 wrote:
For now. I have a feeling that will change and get much, much better.
It'll get better, but it'll never be cheap or fast in a production setting.
NotCore
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1/27/2016 10:07am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
A CNC machine is a type of 3D printing, and there are many applications for that in moto. Look to JGR. What you may be thinking of is Additive manufacturing. Initially in plastics, but also in metals, food and other materials. This is what will change the world.
1/27/2016 10:12am
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music.

You will no longer buy things, you'll buy a file, and print from that file at home. then, assholes will upload the file to the internet where you can download a pirated version.

it's coming. won't affect everything, but you can kiss the injection molded plastic industry goodbye virtually overnight.
hvaughn88
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1/27/2016 10:14am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
hvaughn88 wrote:
For now. I have a feeling that will change and get much, much better.
colintrax wrote:
It'll get better, but it'll never be cheap or fast in a production setting.
I guess we'll see
philG
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1/27/2016 10:15am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
NotCore wrote:
A CNC machine is a type of 3D printing, and there are many applications for that in moto. Look to JGR. What you may be thinking...
A CNC machine is a type of 3D printing, and there are many applications for that in moto. Look to JGR. What you may be thinking of is Additive manufacturing. Initially in plastics, but also in metals, food and other materials. This is what will change the world.
We have the biggest plastics printer by work volume currently in the UK , and a large Additive Manufacture facility.

Its great for making stuff that looks like what you want, but at the minute, thats about it. Great for making stuff that people design , that you cant actually machine, but the validation procedure eats up any (it there is any ) cost saving.

Hugely cost prohibitive, apart from mocking stuff up in plastic to use till the metal stuff turns up.

A CNC machine is not 3D printing. Not ever.
philG
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1/27/2016 10:23am
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music. You will no longer buy things, you'll...
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music.

You will no longer buy things, you'll buy a file, and print from that file at home. then, assholes will upload the file to the internet where you can download a pirated version.

it's coming. won't affect everything, but you can kiss the injection molded plastic industry goodbye virtually overnight.
Total bollocks.

Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost,

3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound, and requires full CAD facilities to even do the simplest thing.

We have guys dicking about printing stuff in plastic that takes 3 hours to print that i can buy for £5 on ebay.

Injection moulding is going nowhere.

seth505
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1/27/2016 10:26am Edited Date/Time 1/27/2016 10:26am
colintrax wrote:
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker. It's great...
3D printing is expensive, timely, and doesn't make parts to the same surface quality you'd expect. Besides the fact 3D printed parts are weaker.

It's great for making parts that are no longer made, but otherwise it has no place in moto besides designing the bike.
hvaughn88 wrote:
For now. I have a feeling that will change and get much, much better.
colintrax wrote:
It'll get better, but it'll never be cheap or fast in a production setting.
That's not exactly true, 3D printers are already being used for production parts (in other industries). It doesn't make sense in all cases but it does in some. The more complex the part the more you can find savings.
1/27/2016 10:31am
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music. You will no longer buy things, you'll...
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music.

You will no longer buy things, you'll buy a file, and print from that file at home. then, assholes will upload the file to the internet where you can download a pirated version.

it's coming. won't affect everything, but you can kiss the injection molded plastic industry goodbye virtually overnight.
philG wrote:
Total bollocks. Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost, 3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound...
Total bollocks.

Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost,

3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound, and requires full CAD facilities to even do the simplest thing.

We have guys dicking about printing stuff in plastic that takes 3 hours to print that i can buy for £5 on ebay.

Injection moulding is going nowhere.

Let me repeat myself.

When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is available...and it will be...)

Structurally sound is a moot point. I'm talking about all those injection molded plastic toys that may cost 5 bucks, but they cost about 50 cents when you have a printer, printing material, and a free cad file you downloaded. I'm not talking about load-bearing technological marvels here. I'm talking about cheap plastic Chinese shit, purchased off the shelf. It's going to disappear. Toys. That stylish trash can in your bathroom.
T-MAC
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1/27/2016 10:33am
NotCore wrote:
A CNC machine is a type of 3D printing, and there are many applications for that in moto. Look to JGR. What you may be thinking...
A CNC machine is a type of 3D printing, and there are many applications for that in moto. Look to JGR. What you may be thinking of is Additive manufacturing. Initially in plastics, but also in metals, food and other materials. This is what will change the world.
What? 3DP is the opposite of CNC. CNC is subtractive mfg, 3DP is addictive mfg.
HenryA
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1/27/2016 10:37am Edited Date/Time 1/27/2016 10:38am
About a year ago, I designed a chain slider and printed it. Never used it since the quality of the material was too poor. It's not like you can print a bad boy like the TM sliders with a printer for 3000$.
philG
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1/27/2016 10:43am
Let me repeat myself. When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is...
Let me repeat myself.

When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is available...and it will be...)

Structurally sound is a moot point. I'm talking about all those injection molded plastic toys that may cost 5 bucks, but they cost about 50 cents when you have a printer, printing material, and a free cad file you downloaded. I'm not talking about load-bearing technological marvels here. I'm talking about cheap plastic Chinese shit, purchased off the shelf. It's going to disappear. Toys. That stylish trash can in your bathroom.
You know that printer that is hooked up to your PC that you cant afford to refill with ink , so you buy a new one??

You dont think thats going to happen ?

For low volume prototype stuff , its golden, to allow you to mock stuff up, had a full MotoGp engine printed so we could get the chassis done.. think that was £20k

T-MAC
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1/27/2016 10:44am
HenryA wrote:
About a year ago, I designed a chain slider and printed it. Never used it since the quality of the material was too poor. It's not...
About a year ago, I designed a chain slider and printed it. Never used it since the quality of the material was too poor. It's not like you can print a bad boy like the TM sliders with a printer for 3000$.
Yep. Materials and processes will evolve. However, for large scale mfg I don't think 3DP will replace it at all. 3DP will grow in the small scale production, custom part, prototyping area. I have a couple of 3D printed pieces made from ABS plastic on my bike that hold up fine - front brake cable guide, and an hour meter mount.
kkawboy14
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1/27/2016 10:55am
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music. You will no longer buy things, you'll...
When 3D printing becomes feasible for the average consumer, it will do to manufacturing what Napster did to music.

You will no longer buy things, you'll buy a file, and print from that file at home. then, assholes will upload the file to the internet where you can download a pirated version.

it's coming. won't affect everything, but you can kiss the injection molded plastic industry goodbye virtually overnight.
philG wrote:
Total bollocks. Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost, 3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound...
Total bollocks.

Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost,

3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound, and requires full CAD facilities to even do the simplest thing.

We have guys dicking about printing stuff in plastic that takes 3 hours to print that i can buy for £5 on ebay.

Injection moulding is going nowhere.

Let me repeat myself. When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is...
Let me repeat myself.

When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is available...and it will be...)

Structurally sound is a moot point. I'm talking about all those injection molded plastic toys that may cost 5 bucks, but they cost about 50 cents when you have a printer, printing material, and a free cad file you downloaded. I'm not talking about load-bearing technological marvels here. I'm talking about cheap plastic Chinese shit, purchased off the shelf. It's going to disappear. Toys. That stylish trash can in your bathroom.
Some of these guys in here deaf! Everybody else understands what you were saying!
ocscottie
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1/27/2016 10:57am
3D printing is commonly used in F1, many teams feel it will be the future and they will be able to print replacement parts trackside in the near future.
1/27/2016 11:09am
They are 3D printing metal now with lasers and welders.
1/27/2016 11:11am
philG wrote:
Total bollocks. Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost, 3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound...
Total bollocks.

Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost,

3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound, and requires full CAD facilities to even do the simplest thing.

We have guys dicking about printing stuff in plastic that takes 3 hours to print that i can buy for £5 on ebay.

Injection moulding is going nowhere.

Let me repeat myself. When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is...
Let me repeat myself.

When 3D printing becomes more feasible to the average consumer...break-break..... (This means when Autocaad isn't required, and a home printing system is available...and it will be...)

Structurally sound is a moot point. I'm talking about all those injection molded plastic toys that may cost 5 bucks, but they cost about 50 cents when you have a printer, printing material, and a free cad file you downloaded. I'm not talking about load-bearing technological marvels here. I'm talking about cheap plastic Chinese shit, purchased off the shelf. It's going to disappear. Toys. That stylish trash can in your bathroom.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Some of these guys in here deaf! Everybody else understands what you were saying!
it's not like that. Phil is intelligent and works on team bikes, and I respect that, but outside of that he's an argumentative brit asshole who doesn't like "yanks".
philG
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1/27/2016 11:13am
ocscottie wrote:
3D printing is commonly used in F1, many teams feel it will be the future and they will be able to print replacement parts trackside in...
3D printing is commonly used in F1, many teams feel it will be the future and they will be able to print replacement parts trackside in the near future.
3d printing in F1 is almost exclusively used for the wind tunnel side of the business,

I would not expect any F1 team to print anything metal , and put it on the car at the track, the quality procedures simply dont allow it , its one thing crack testing existing parts in the back of a truck , but having portable Xray kit .. not likely.

I have known race engineers not fit parts because they didnt like the way they looked, despite being completely to spec and still having less than half-life on them
Robgvx
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1/27/2016 11:18am
philG wrote:
Total bollocks. Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost, 3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound...
Total bollocks.

Have you watched plastic injection moulding machines ?? Absolutely foolproof, high volume, low unit cost,

3D plastic printing is slower , less structurally sound, and requires full CAD facilities to even do the simplest thing.

We have guys dicking about printing stuff in plastic that takes 3 hours to print that i can buy for £5 on ebay.

Injection moulding is going nowhere.

Love your posts Phil.
Grizz
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Los Angeles, CA US
1/27/2016 11:25am
The future is coming. Don't deny it or you'll end up like those guys that used to sell blocks of ice to keep food stored safely.

Gotta love that first comment, "Make ti bolts." Out of plastic? haha

If I had one I'd definitely make one of those Cycra style front brake cable guides.
MR. X
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1/27/2016 11:25am
3D printing is just the tip of the iceberg, it will get better ,faster and stronger or lead to a process that is . It won't eliminate plastic injection molds completely. SLA was going to be the next big thing in prototyping and mfg. and then 3D printing came along.
mx317
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1/27/2016 11:28am
I read that for space exploration they will have a 3D printer onboard to make replacement parts if the need arises.
philG
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1/27/2016 11:41am
it's not like that. Phil is intelligent and works on team bikes, and I respect that, but outside of that he's an argumentative brit asshole who...
it's not like that. Phil is intelligent and works on team bikes, and I respect that, but outside of that he's an argumentative brit asshole who doesn't like "yanks".
I only argue with people who dont get it . They are not in short supply . Tongue

Bikes are just a hobby, my trade Quality Engineering, which means i check the stuff that all these new processes produce.. so i know what can be done , and what will be done in the future.

My current project is a high end additive manufacturing one, that is being used to develop the machines that will be used to print the parts that industry is waiting for.

Once you have printed them , they have to be HIP'ed to remove any voids , and then , depending on material , heat treated too,

After that they need to be xray'ed to ensure there are no voids left .. then you measure them .

All of this is huge $$$ ..
JBernard_401
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Boulder, CO US
1/27/2016 11:49am Edited Date/Time 1/27/2016 11:49am
ive used it to protoype TONS of parts on my bike project and saved myself hundreds/thousands of dollars.
just using a little makerbot 2, nothing crazy. the SLA stuff is insanely nice but price per prototype part is about like 5x +

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