350 vs. 450

MX558
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MX558 8/13/2021 6:19pm
8/13/2021 6:19pm
Moto520 wrote:
I'm going to fix this whole argument once and for all. I have a 2020 YZ450, a 2019 KX450, and now a KTM 350. I am...
I'm going to fix this whole argument once and for all. I have a 2020 YZ450, a 2019 KX450, and now a KTM 350. I am going to, once and for all, make the call for you all on whether or not the air forks have to be replaced on the KTM. I'm not one of those assholes that has to justify my purchase by saying "everything is great" with my new bike. I don't give a shit. I'm an old man at 47 and I will give the straight story from my perspective. I'm a 190Lb vet "A" rider and all of my other bikes have Factory Connection suspension that has been tweaked to be good enough. I have used all of the major suspension companies over the years.
So is the suspension any good on the newer bikes ?
smoothies862
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smoothies862 8/13/2021 6:20pm
8/13/2021 6:20pm
Another vote for a honda crf350. Japanese 350s would sell out. I think its ktms best selling engine. Think off road too.
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MX558
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MX558 8/13/2021 6:26pm
8/13/2021 6:26pm
smoothies862 wrote:
Another vote for a honda crf350. Japanese 350s would sell out. I think its ktms best selling engine. Think off road too.
I agree but would hope they do a 375 or something with a tad more grunt . If they had that bike KTM would never sell another 350 with that shit suspension
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Moto520
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Moto520 8/13/2021 10:42pm
8/13/2021 10:42pm
Moto520 wrote:
I rode my YZ250 yesterday for a change of pace. The track was a little wet. IT SUCKED. Normally i'm a fan of my smoker but...
I rode my YZ250 yesterday for a change of pace. The track was a little wet. IT SUCKED. Normally i'm a fan of my smoker but the flaws of the motor were exasperated with the conditions I love my smoker but damn.....it took a gnarly track and made it more dangerous because I had to ride so hard to keep up with my homies. Is the smoker finally at such a disadvantage with the development of the 4 stroke motors? I think the free-revving nature of the new 4 strokes has closed the gap on the few advantages of the 2 stroke.
sandman768 wrote:
I have my 250t setup for sand & my 350 for intermediate to hard pack… It works out great…
Yeah……sand is pretty freaking fun on a smoke. Keeping good and consistent power through the turn is an awesome feeling. Sand tire? I’ve never used one and assume it’s great

The Shop

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Moto520
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Moto520 8/13/2021 10:47pm
8/13/2021 10:47pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2021 10:48pm
Moto520 wrote:
I'm going to fix this whole argument once and for all. I have a 2020 YZ450, a 2019 KX450, and now a KTM 350. I am...
I'm going to fix this whole argument once and for all. I have a 2020 YZ450, a 2019 KX450, and now a KTM 350. I am going to, once and for all, make the call for you all on whether or not the air forks have to be replaced on the KTM. I'm not one of those assholes that has to justify my purchase by saying "everything is great" with my new bike. I don't give a shit. I'm an old man at 47 and I will give the straight story from my perspective. I'm a 190Lb vet "A" rider and all of my other bikes have Factory Connection suspension that has been tweaked to be good enough. I have used all of the major suspension companies over the years.
MX558 wrote:
So is the suspension any good on the newer bikes ?
I haven’t ridden the ktm yet. The Yamaha and Kawasaki suspension are both really freaking good. The Showa stuff is probably some of my favorite thus far. Yamaha is good too although I have it set up completely stock and have left it this way for 75 hours with oil changes around 35 hours. It can be better with Factory Connection’s adjustments
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cloud41
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cloud41 8/14/2021 5:56am
8/14/2021 5:56am
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the class. I do want one at some point when I can pony up new cvs.
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LKHill
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LKHill 8/14/2021 7:32am
8/14/2021 7:32am
cloud41 wrote:
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the...
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the class. I do want one at some point when I can pony up new cvs.
They are the only forks in the class bro. If your getting that in all of motocross I think you will find there are worse. Lots of options other than cone valves BTW.
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Brent
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Brent 8/14/2021 10:06am
8/14/2021 10:06am
cloud41 wrote:
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the...
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the class. I do want one at some point when I can pony up new cvs.
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class.


The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about every KTM I see locally has way too much sag,

I helped one young dude parked next to me over the summer with his new 250f, he was compllaining about his fork being harsh. I checked his sag and it was like 150 mm !

If the back end is soft the front end can’t do what it’s supposed to. with their soft linkage ratio, it’s really important for KTM to sit at the proper level in the rear end.

KTMs always need to be at 103 sag - no more, no less

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Broseph
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Broseph 8/14/2021 1:01pm
8/14/2021 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/14/2021 2:14pm
cloud41 wrote:
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the...
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the class. I do want one at some point when I can pony up new cvs.
Brent wrote:
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class. The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about...
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class.


The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about every KTM I see locally has way too much sag,

I helped one young dude parked next to me over the summer with his new 250f, he was compllaining about his fork being harsh. I checked his sag and it was like 150 mm !

If the back end is soft the front end can’t do what it’s supposed to. with their soft linkage ratio, it’s really important for KTM to sit at the proper level in the rear end.

KTMs always need to be at 103 sag - no more, no less

Which fork is worse than KTM?
FGR01
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FGR01 8/14/2021 8:21pm
8/14/2021 8:21pm
cloud41 wrote:
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the...
It’s a tough pill to swallow knowing the 350 is one of the most expensive bikes to buy and comes with the worst forks in the class. I do want one at some point when I can pony up new cvs.
Brent wrote:
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class. The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about...
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class.


The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about every KTM I see locally has way too much sag,

I helped one young dude parked next to me over the summer with his new 250f, he was compllaining about his fork being harsh. I checked his sag and it was like 150 mm !

If the back end is soft the front end can’t do what it’s supposed to. with their soft linkage ratio, it’s really important for KTM to sit at the proper level in the rear end.

KTMs always need to be at 103 sag - no more, no less

Broseph wrote:
Which fork is worse than KTM?
Every other fork in the 350 class. Except for the Husky and Gas Gas. They are eerily similar to the KTM fork.
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Taylor415
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Taylor415 8/15/2021 12:08am
8/15/2021 12:08am
If guys quit acting like they were pros and actually rode the shit they'd find out its pretty damn good. I've had three of these all set up and revalved and love the suspension. Quit acting like you can tell the difference between a clicker, this is good shit. Go cry about the prep being too deep or the double being spaced too far apart.
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 8/15/2021 2:40am
8/15/2021 2:40am
Taylor415 wrote:
If guys quit acting like they were pros and actually rode the shit they'd find out its pretty damn good. I've had three of these all...
If guys quit acting like they were pros and actually rode the shit they'd find out its pretty damn good. I've had three of these all set up and revalved and love the suspension. Quit acting like you can tell the difference between a clicker, this is good shit. Go cry about the prep being too deep or the double being spaced too far apart.
I agree. I’ve had quite a few people start talking shit when I unload my Suzuki. Mostly 40+ C riders with factory editions and cone valves. I understand people like nice things, but no reason to talk shit because I don’t need anything but a good running stock bike.
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soggy
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soggy 8/15/2021 5:32am
8/15/2021 5:32am
Brent wrote:
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class. The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about...
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class.


The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about every KTM I see locally has way too much sag,

I helped one young dude parked next to me over the summer with his new 250f, he was compllaining about his fork being harsh. I checked his sag and it was like 150 mm !

If the back end is soft the front end can’t do what it’s supposed to. with their soft linkage ratio, it’s really important for KTM to sit at the proper level in the rear end.

KTMs always need to be at 103 sag - no more, no less

I’ll co-sign on the shock needing to be set up well on these bikes. Really affects how supple the fork feels, so on slap down landings
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AJ565
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AJ565 8/15/2021 7:01am
8/15/2021 7:01am
Brent wrote:
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class. The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about...
You are wrong about the worst fork in the class.


The problem is riders are not setting up their suspension correctly on KTM’s - just about every KTM I see locally has way too much sag,

I helped one young dude parked next to me over the summer with his new 250f, he was compllaining about his fork being harsh. I checked his sag and it was like 150 mm !

If the back end is soft the front end can’t do what it’s supposed to. with their soft linkage ratio, it’s really important for KTM to sit at the proper level in the rear end.

KTMs always need to be at 103 sag - no more, no less

soggy wrote:
I’ll co-sign on the shock needing to be set up well on these bikes. Really affects how supple the fork feels, so on slap down landings
Third!
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STLSharky
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STLSharky 8/15/2021 1:25pm
8/15/2021 1:25pm
Taylor415 wrote:
If guys quit acting like they were pros and actually rode the shit they'd find out its pretty damn good. I've had three of these all...
If guys quit acting like they were pros and actually rode the shit they'd find out its pretty damn good. I've had three of these all set up and revalved and love the suspension. Quit acting like you can tell the difference between a clicker, this is good shit. Go cry about the prep being too deep or the double being spaced too far apart.
right on
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MX558
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MX558 8/15/2021 3:49pm
8/15/2021 3:49pm
I have yet to see anybody switch to air forks from anything else . The 350 are great bikes but the suspension sucks compared to the other 3 manufacturers (haven't ridden a Suzuki)
Moto520
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Moto520 8/15/2021 5:40pm
8/15/2021 5:40pm
Just rode the bike for the first time. Motor, clutch, shifting and brakes are great. Suspension sucks…. O surprises there.
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soggy
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soggy 8/16/2021 6:06am
8/16/2021 6:06am
Moto520 wrote:
Just rode the bike for the first time. Motor, clutch, shifting and brakes are great. Suspension sucks…. O surprises there.
Give it 6 hours, the fork is pretty sticky initially it loosens up.

Pit Row

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seth505
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seth505 8/16/2021 7:02am
8/16/2021 7:02am
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
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Moto520
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Moto520 8/16/2021 7:39am
8/16/2021 7:39am
Moto520 wrote:
Just rode the bike for the first time. Motor, clutch, shifting and brakes are great. Suspension sucks…. O surprises there.
soggy wrote:
Give it 6 hours, the fork is pretty sticky initially it loosens up.
i will! I knew going into the day that the bike was going to be stiff. My other bikes are super plush so it kind of caught me by surprise moving to a stiffer/ fresh bike.
Moto520
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Moto520 8/16/2021 7:45am
8/16/2021 7:45am Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 8:07am
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever Kris Keefer said. Luckily though.....talking about how our bike react is not a dick measuring competition. It's fun to discuss. The measure of who we are on this site has nothing to do with how quickly we ride our dirt bikes. Your statement implies that "these people with forks that suck" are slow. Don't do that. Slow people can have shitty forks too. I hate that shit....
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seth505
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seth505 8/16/2021 8:14am
8/16/2021 8:14am
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Moto520 wrote:
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever...
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever Kris Keefer said. Luckily though.....talking about how our bike react is not a dick measuring competition. It's fun to discuss. The measure of who we are on this site has nothing to do with how quickly we ride our dirt bikes. Your statement implies that "these people with forks that suck" are slow. Don't do that. Slow people can have shitty forks too. I hate that shit....
I'm no Ken Roczen, I meant actually see video of what the bike is doing that makes it suck. I just don't get it, are they never checking the pressure or setting up the WP stuff that horribly?

I feel like I could put WP stickers on a Yamaha, tell them it's an air fork setup and most would complain that it wasn't as great as a stock Yamaha KYB setup.
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Moto520
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Moto520 8/16/2021 9:03am
8/16/2021 9:03am
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Moto520 wrote:
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever...
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever Kris Keefer said. Luckily though.....talking about how our bike react is not a dick measuring competition. It's fun to discuss. The measure of who we are on this site has nothing to do with how quickly we ride our dirt bikes. Your statement implies that "these people with forks that suck" are slow. Don't do that. Slow people can have shitty forks too. I hate that shit....
seth505 wrote:
I'm no Ken Roczen, I meant actually see video of what the bike is doing that makes it suck. I just don't get it, are they...
I'm no Ken Roczen, I meant actually see video of what the bike is doing that makes it suck. I just don't get it, are they never checking the pressure or setting up the WP stuff that horribly?

I feel like I could put WP stickers on a Yamaha, tell them it's an air fork setup and most would complain that it wasn't as great as a stock Yamaha KYB setup.
There is so many variables. Since i only put 2 hours on the bike i feel like it still has to break in before i could even start making adjustments. Everything is rigid and stiff. I'm wondering if the bikes that they test for the "magazines" are broken in before the tests??? Anybody know? I set the fork air pressure up to the stock setting and left it there. I did start playing with the rebound and the compression for the fork. The KTM has awesome adjusters that you can adjust without tools.....great feature. I was able to pull off the side of the track and play around with the rebound more than i normally would on the break in day. I only went 3 clicks in and then 3 clicks out on rebound to see if i could feel the difference. It may have made a slight difference but i really think the bike needs to break in. It feels like it needs to break in moreso than the KX and the YZF.
Brent
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Brent 8/16/2021 12:13pm
8/16/2021 12:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 12:13pm
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
It’s just their lack of expertise, most of the time riders never check a bikes sag, tire pressure, and fork air pressure before they ride a bike.

Proper settings are so important on current bikes, but no one has the patience to get their shit straight before they ride. No bike really sucks if you set it up right.
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Moto520
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Moto520 8/16/2021 2:17pm
8/16/2021 2:17pm
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Brent wrote:
It’s just their lack of expertise, most of the time riders never check a bikes sag, tire pressure, and fork air pressure before they ride a...
It’s just their lack of expertise, most of the time riders never check a bikes sag, tire pressure, and fork air pressure before they ride a bike.

Proper settings are so important on current bikes, but no one has the patience to get their shit straight before they ride. No bike really sucks if you set it up right.
That's crazy to me......waste of adjustability
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MXer391
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MXer391 8/16/2021 2:35pm
8/16/2021 2:35pm
Moto520 wrote:
There is so many variables. Since i only put 2 hours on the bike i feel like it still has to break in before i could...
There is so many variables. Since i only put 2 hours on the bike i feel like it still has to break in before i could even start making adjustments. Everything is rigid and stiff. I'm wondering if the bikes that they test for the "magazines" are broken in before the tests??? Anybody know? I set the fork air pressure up to the stock setting and left it there. I did start playing with the rebound and the compression for the fork. The KTM has awesome adjusters that you can adjust without tools.....great feature. I was able to pull off the side of the track and play around with the rebound more than i normally would on the break in day. I only went 3 clicks in and then 3 clicks out on rebound to see if i could feel the difference. It may have made a slight difference but i really think the bike needs to break in. It feels like it needs to break in moreso than the KX and the YZF.
I believe the media bikes are delivered broken in with around 2 hours on them. I've had 3 bikes with air forks. They all feel stiff when new but they will break in.
Brent
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Brent 8/16/2021 2:43pm
8/16/2021 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 2:51pm
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Brent wrote:
It’s just their lack of expertise, most of the time riders never check a bikes sag, tire pressure, and fork air pressure before they ride a...
It’s just their lack of expertise, most of the time riders never check a bikes sag, tire pressure, and fork air pressure before they ride a bike.

Proper settings are so important on current bikes, but no one has the patience to get their shit straight before they ride. No bike really sucks if you set it up right.
Moto520 wrote:
That's crazy to me......waste of adjustability
Even the test riders blow off setting up the bikes right sometimes.

I race REM Saturday motocross against the MXA orange helmet crew, and one of their vet heroes just jumped on a MXA test KTM, I think it was a 2021, no sag settings, no tire pressure check, fork was hanging so low on his 350 that I thought the seal had blown out.

Crash and Burn midway through the moto. You know who you are, RandyTongueTongueTongueLaughing

Over the last few years of owning KTMs I have been lucky enough to get set up advice from a guy I ride with who works at WP here in Murrieta, and the owner of REP suspension, Mark Johnson, who used to be Dungeys tech.

They have shown me how this shit can really go sideways if it isn't set up in the ballpark, sometime one or two pounds of air, or a couple MM of sag can make BIG difference on the balance of the bike and how it absorbs bumps.

I need all the help I can get with the suspension because I ran out of talent years ago.

RCMXracing
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RCMXracing 8/16/2021 2:44pm
8/16/2021 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 3:12pm
Moto520 wrote:
There is so many variables. Since i only put 2 hours on the bike i feel like it still has to break in before i could...
There is so many variables. Since i only put 2 hours on the bike i feel like it still has to break in before i could even start making adjustments. Everything is rigid and stiff. I'm wondering if the bikes that they test for the "magazines" are broken in before the tests??? Anybody know? I set the fork air pressure up to the stock setting and left it there. I did start playing with the rebound and the compression for the fork. The KTM has awesome adjusters that you can adjust without tools.....great feature. I was able to pull off the side of the track and play around with the rebound more than i normally would on the break in day. I only went 3 clicks in and then 3 clicks out on rebound to see if i could feel the difference. It may have made a slight difference but i really think the bike needs to break in. It feels like it needs to break in moreso than the KX and the YZF.
Definitely need that break in period. I’ve owned a couple KTM’s and they got better at around 5 hours. Forks went to one of the major tuners after that break in and I was happy, laughed at Ping’s whining about slap down landing issues… until I got on a set of Showa forks…

I sold the 19.5 KTM 450, got a 21 CRF450R. That sucker took about 15 hours to break in, very rigid frame feel, way more rigid than the KTM, but after the revalve the suspension is a big improvement over the AER. I’m not brand loyal, it’s just better.

I defended the AER fork all the time, I was able to get it like pillows on the small chop, and the bottoming was amazing. It’s that middle part that beat me up. Wasn’t horrible, just not as good as what I’m on now. Hoping the newer gen AER is better with that bigger bypass. Anyone do a direct comparison?
AJ565
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AJ565 8/16/2021 4:55pm
8/16/2021 4:55pm
seth505 wrote:
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Would love to critique video of all these people with forks that "suck".
Moto520 wrote:
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever...
Yeah....that's what i always think when i hear the feedback about the bikes. I roll my eyes when i hear my slow buddies basically regurgitating whatever Kris Keefer said. Luckily though.....talking about how our bike react is not a dick measuring competition. It's fun to discuss. The measure of who we are on this site has nothing to do with how quickly we ride our dirt bikes. Your statement implies that "these people with forks that suck" are slow. Don't do that. Slow people can have shitty forks too. I hate that shit....
seth505 wrote:
I'm no Ken Roczen, I meant actually see video of what the bike is doing that makes it suck. I just don't get it, are they...
I'm no Ken Roczen, I meant actually see video of what the bike is doing that makes it suck. I just don't get it, are they never checking the pressure or setting up the WP stuff that horribly?

I feel like I could put WP stickers on a Yamaha, tell them it's an air fork setup and most would complain that it wasn't as great as a stock Yamaha KYB setup.
Buddy of mine complained that his forks were harsh on his 2020 FE and I watched him on track and they were always kinda high in the stroke. I checked over his setting and opened the pressure bleeders and blew the screws out. He didn’t know he needed to release the pressure build up lol. After that they were really plush and looked much better on track.
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akmx17
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Palmer, AK US
akmx17 8/16/2021 5:51pm
8/16/2021 5:51pm
Raced a 21 350 this weekend.
I love 250F's thing they are the funnest bike around to ride but im a bigger guy and sometimes the lack of power with my weight and lack of talent gets me in trouble when my head goes "Just hold it, youll make it". So ive been exploring going back a 450 but riding that 350 was a blast and im driving 4 hours wednesday to pick up a 22. It had a lot more power than i thought (I rode a 16 and it didint feel great) but im pretty sold over the winter i can make it a really enjoyable powerhouse.
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