2stroke vs 4stroke(not what you think...)

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8/27/2012 3:37 AM

I am curious for the sake of intelligent discussion(wait did I just say that on vital?)

if 4 strokes would have never been invented, are there riders that would have had different careers...are there riders that would have done better or worse on 2 strokes alone...

who are the ones who would have done better and or worse...

RC - Same
JS - Same
RV - would have killed it on 2 strokes, small frame and fearless, likes to toss it around
TC - i believe trey would have been safer in a 2 stroke world, again, small dude...
DM18 - would have struggled on a 250cc 2 stroke, i watched him ride an rm125 and it was brutal
ET17 - for some reason Eli seems like he would have outgrown a 125 in a hurry, 250cc 2 stroke, he would be a player for sure

disclaimer, not fishin or hatin on 4 strokes, just a thought about progression of the sport...

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don't believe the hype

8/27/2012 4:35 AM

Tomac would probably do well in his current form. His fitness is probably the best of all the 250 riders. Milsaps has always seemed to struggle with doing a full race at race pace from what I saw. Pretty sure most of the top guys are smallish guys. Then of course you have the exceptions such as Pastrana who was a giant on his 125, yet had good speed. Barcia would smoke everyone on a 125 or 250 I think.

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8/27/2012 5:26 AM

in the gp's gordon crockard for sure was a top 5 rider everyweek on the 2 stroke and his career died when he got on the 4st never the same

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8/27/2012 5:50 AM

2stroke: JS259 Would have killed it so bad he would lap 2nd

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8/27/2012 6:05 AM

Reedy suffered on that POS yamaha 450...

He went from being the same as RC/JS in 05 to being 20 seconds down at the end of a race, all that changed was the 4 strokes... took him till 09 to start getting comfortable again...

He should have taken the Zook ride in 05!

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Cheers, Crush
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8/27/2012 6:35 AM

I feel pretty safe saying that without 4 strokes, we would probably be talking about the wasted talent of Kevin Windham right now.

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8/27/2012 7:12 AM

I actually just finished watching that Daytona supercross from 05. Watching Chad ride that YZ 250 is something to behold. It really is. His style is really prevalent on the two banger, but from 06 on when he was riding the 450, while you could still tell it was Chad riding, his style didnt look anywhere near as good, or have as much body english. I say Chad's career would have been better without the four strokes.

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November 13th, Forever in our memories !!

8/27/2012 9:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/27/2012 9:02 AM

Sully wrote:

I feel pretty safe saying that without 4 strokes, we would probably be talking about the wasted talent of Kevin Windham right ...more

Yep, the 4-strokes definitely suit Windham, Dungey, and Millsaps's style and have helped their careers. 2-strokes would have benefitted Stewart, Reed, Baggett, and Barcia. It's hard to say on Villopoto. These are just the ones off the top of my head.

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8/27/2012 9:37 AM

motokiwi wrote:

2stroke: JS259 Would have killed it so bad he would lap 2nd

259 BABY!!! All the way.

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8/27/2012 10:42 AM

John Dowd would have never been a big name without the 4stroke and Scott Summers who?

[LINK TO IMAGE]

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8/27/2012 11:04 AM

wheelie wrote:

John Dowd would have never been a big name without the 4stroke and Scott Summers who?

[LINK TO IMAGE]

Huh, why Dowd?

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8/27/2012 1:49 PM

John Dowd had his best results on a two stroke. Won a 125 SX title on one, won 125 natiionals on one, and almost beat Jeff Emig for the 250 national title when he was at the height of his powers. Maybe the four stroke extended his career just be keeping him interested, but don't forget it wasn't all that long ago that he rode a KTM 250 two stroke to third overall at the wick.

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8/27/2012 1:58 PM

This is actually an interesting question, I think (maybe just because I've thought of it before?).

I'd say the top guy's careers would pretty much be the same, assuming they stayed healthy and got the same breaks and all. Even tho Dungey is a technician, I still think he'd be a top contender. Reed would have at least one more title.

For me, the real question marks are on the 5th-15th place guys. Are there some out there whose careers would be much brighter on a premixer, or vice versa?

I think Pourcel would be super interesting to watch on a 2-stroke. If he got a 250 set up for his riding style, I'd bet money that he would still make it look effortless.

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Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

8/27/2012 2:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/27/2012 2:26 PM

Broc Hepler, watched him grow up on mini's. His career might of turned out a little different. It seems all everyone remembers is his crashing, but he could flat out ride a bike. Was very creative on the track, i would of loved to see him race a factory RM250 at the national level.

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8/27/2012 4:33 PM

Crush wrote:

Reedy suffered on that POS yamaha 450...

He went from being the same as RC/JS in 05 to being 20 seconds down at the end of a ...more

Maybe in 06, but in 07, didn't all 3 of them finish within 2 points if each other?

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8/27/2012 5:01 PM

No, that was '06 when they were within 2 points. '07 was RC's going away party.

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Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

8/27/2012 5:04 PM

hellion wrote:

John Dowd had his best results on a two stroke. Won a 125 SX title on one, won 125 natiionals on one, and almost beat Jeff ...more

Exactly!

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8/27/2012 5:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/27/2012 5:55 PM

If all the top guys were put back on two strokes today, I don't think the results would change much.

I think James Stewart would have done better than he did early on in his big bike career if everyone had been riding two strokes. Reed seemed to drop off the pace a little after the switch, but that may have been caused by RC and JS raising the bar at about the same time.

I might be wrong, but I think Stefan Everts once said the switch to 4-strokes helped extend his career. The same could probably be said for Windham.

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8/27/2012 5:57 PM

hellion wrote:

John Dowd had his best results on a two stroke. Won a 125 SX title on one, won 125 natiionals on one, and almost beat Jeff ...more

Didn't Dowd go 3-3 for third overall behind RC and James at Southwick in '05 on an RMZ450?

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8/27/2012 6:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/27/2012 6:10 PM

hellion wrote:

John Dowd had his best results on a two stroke. Won a 125 SX title on one, won 125 natiionals on one, and almost beat Jeff ...more

sam111 wrote:

Didn't Dowd go 3-3 for third overall behind RC and James at Southwick in '05 on an RMZ450?

He was on Suzuki 2004-2008. And when he was on KTM I am pretty sure he was racing the 520 thumper in the nationals, not a 250 2 stroke. He did race the KTM125 two stroke in SX.

Dowd did go 3-3 in 2005 at Southwick but it was behind RC (2-1) and Reed (1-2).

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8/27/2012 6:10 PM

tns wrote:

in the gp's gordon crockard for sure was a top 5 rider everyweek on the 2 stroke and his career died when he got on the 4st ...more

I recently bought some 250cc GP DVD's from that era. I had forgotten how good Crockard was. His career kind of "died" when he went to KTM in 2002, though (before he switched to four strokes). He didn't do nearly as well on the 250SX as he had on a Honda in 2000 and 2001.

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8/27/2012 6:23 PM

I disagree about Stewart having a better career on a 250. I remember him saying he was glad he got off because he thought is was going to kill him or something like that. I don't know if the powerband of a factory two stroke would suit him. If he was riding his 125 against 250 two strokes I honestly think he would of won a few titles. He is without a doubt the fastest 125 rider I have ever seen.

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8/27/2012 6:24 PM

hellion wrote:

John Dowd had his best results on a two stroke. Won a 125 SX title on one, won 125 natiionals on one, and almost beat Jeff ...more

sam111 wrote:

Didn't Dowd go 3-3 for third overall behind RC and James at Southwick in '05 on an RMZ450?

DownSouth wrote:

He was on Suzuki 2004-2008. And when he was on KTM I am pretty sure he was racing the 520 thumper in the nationals, not a 250 ...more

He did race the 250 SX 2 stroke in 03. Took 3rd on it at Southwick that year. He raced the 520 before that.

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