250f class with 250 2 stroke?

mc795
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mc795
Edited Date/Time 6/5/2016 2:47pm
With Stienke on a 125 competing in the 250f class, why not let him ride a 250 two stroke as they're more evenly matched in horse power. As a fan this would put a huge smile on my face to see 250's go head to head.
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EnvyMedia 6/4/2016 9:47am
6/4/2016 9:47am
I don't know what the fuss is with 250 2 strokes in the mx2 class. It's like riding a 125 in a 150cc class..

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cali11
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cali11 6/4/2016 9:50am
6/4/2016 9:50am
Kx125rider wrote:
From mxa: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137858/s1200_Screenshot_2016_06_04_at_12.40.57.jpg[/img]
From mxa:


The factory 250Fs are making more than that
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 6/4/2016 9:50am
6/4/2016 9:50am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2016 9:52am
Almost overnight the rules could be modified to allow him to run a 150cc and he could likely be racing one soon after. I think Husky would just need to submit a top end in for homologation as everything else is identical to the 125 that was just approved a few weeks ago. The next step would be to allow the use of leaded fuel again for the two strokes. These are two easily implemented steps the ruling organization(s) could take to explore what it takes to achieve parity between the two and four strokes in the 250 class.
mc795
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mc795 6/4/2016 9:52am
6/4/2016 9:52am
I thought the new 250's are pushing 44 horsepower now. At least what I've read about the yzf 250
Kx125rider 6/4/2016 9:53am
6/4/2016 9:53am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2016 9:54am
Kx125rider wrote:
From mxa: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137858/s1200_Screenshot_2016_06_04_at_12.40.57.jpg[/img]
From mxa:


cali11 wrote:
The factory 250Fs are making more than that
Im sure if the 2t was a factory bike it would make some more hp too
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Wandell 6/4/2016 9:56am
6/4/2016 9:56am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2016 10:02am
Kx125rider wrote:
From mxa: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137858/s1200_Screenshot_2016_06_04_at_12.40.57.jpg[/img]
From mxa:


This is a few years old. The horsepower of the OEM 250 four strokes seems to be increasing every year. The 2016 Husky 250f makes 44.38 hp according to MXA.
darkbelow13 6/4/2016 10:01am
6/4/2016 10:01am
I don't watch Canadian motocross, but I believe I read that 250 2 strokes are allowed in the 250 class there and the top guys are still running the 4 stroke. If that is truly the case then I doubt the 4 stroke is at much of a disadvantage.
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colintrax 6/4/2016 10:08am
6/4/2016 10:08am
cali11 wrote:
The factory 250Fs are making more than that
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more.
Stock the 250fs are right at or under 40hp, except the KTM and Yamaha.
However HP numbers don't mean much, it's the power spread. If you seriously think peak numbers mean much, try to ride your local track at 11,200 rpm WFO and nothing else. Not 11,201, or 11,199. Not half throttle. Wide open 11,200. Good luck.
mc795
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mc795 6/4/2016 10:13am
6/4/2016 10:13am
cali11 wrote:
The factory 250Fs are making more than that
colintrax wrote:
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more. Stock the 250fs are right at...
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more.
Stock the 250fs are right at or under 40hp, except the KTM and Yamaha.
However HP numbers don't mean much, it's the power spread. If you seriously think peak numbers mean much, try to ride your local track at 11,200 rpm WFO and nothing else. Not 11,201, or 11,199. Not half throttle. Wide open 11,200. Good luck.
Exactly, the track ability and Linear power delivered by the four strokes makes it easier to ride on a track. So why not let CC's be CC's and let the 2 strokes race. My 250 two stroke made all its power between 6000 and 8000 rpm. Which is a pretty narrow band compared to the four stroke.
Kx125rider 6/4/2016 10:14am
6/4/2016 10:14am
Well, none of this means anything because ama wont even allow 150s
mc795
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mc795 6/4/2016 10:16am
6/4/2016 10:16am
darkbelow13 wrote:
I don't watch Canadian motocross, but I believe I read that 250 2 strokes are allowed in the 250 class there and the top guys are...
I don't watch Canadian motocross, but I believe I read that 250 2 strokes are allowed in the 250 class there and the top guys are still running the 4 stroke. If that is truly the case then I doubt the 4 stroke is at much of a disadvantage.
Ps. I am Canadian and nothing is better than seeing a 2004 kx 250 amateur rider beat a 2014 yzf 250 pro rider. Puts a grin on my face anyway.
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colintrax 6/4/2016 10:26am
6/4/2016 10:26am
cali11 wrote:
The factory 250Fs are making more than that
colintrax wrote:
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more. Stock the 250fs are right at...
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more.
Stock the 250fs are right at or under 40hp, except the KTM and Yamaha.
However HP numbers don't mean much, it's the power spread. If you seriously think peak numbers mean much, try to ride your local track at 11,200 rpm WFO and nothing else. Not 11,201, or 11,199. Not half throttle. Wide open 11,200. Good luck.
mc795 wrote:
Exactly, the track ability and Linear power delivered by the four strokes makes it easier to ride on a track. So why not let CC's be...
Exactly, the track ability and Linear power delivered by the four strokes makes it easier to ride on a track. So why not let CC's be CC's and let the 2 strokes race. My 250 two stroke made all its power between 6000 and 8000 rpm. Which is a pretty narrow band compared to the four stroke.
Because its not totally fair to 4 strokes. A 150 2 stroke is pretty fair against the 4 strokes. Of course, I'm ok with equal displacement rules. But uhhh is that 250cc 2 strokes now in the lites class? Or does that mean the lites class is back to the 125 class and 450s are banned?
MXant15
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MXant15 6/4/2016 10:29am
6/4/2016 10:29am
mc795 wrote:
With Stienke on a 125 competing in the 250f class, why not let him ride a 250 two stroke as they're more evenly matched in horse...
With Stienke on a 125 competing in the 250f class, why not let him ride a 250 two stroke as they're more evenly matched in horse power. As a fan this would put a huge smile on my face to see 250's go head to head.
Before...
mimafia
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mimafia 6/4/2016 10:43am
6/4/2016 10:43am
A few years ago MXA did a 250 2-stroke vs 250 4-stroke shootout. Multiple riders from novice to expert skill levels rode both. They had charts of laptimes for each bike. It was surprisingly close. If I remember, the fastest lap times depended on the type of track whether it was hardpack, loam, hilly, etc.

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eb313
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eb313 6/4/2016 12:18pm
6/4/2016 12:18pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2016 12:19pm
2t will always be at a disadvantage on tracks with big or steep hills....period. The only thing that alleviates that is long sweepers leading to the hills but most tracks come out of a tighter corner and not enough run up, especially to the take off if there's a step up. That is exactly why Larocco's leap was so impressive.
newmann
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newmann 6/4/2016 1:15pm
6/4/2016 1:15pm
mc795 wrote:
With Stienke on a 125 competing in the 250f class, why not let him ride a 250 two stroke as they're more evenly matched in horse...
With Stienke on a 125 competing in the 250f class, why not let him ride a 250 two stroke as they're more evenly matched in horse power. As a fan this would put a huge smile on my face to see 250's go head to head.
You really have to ask why???




dirtmad170 6/4/2016 4:39pm
6/4/2016 4:39pm
Kx125rider wrote:
Umm..because he would blow everyone away on a 250 2t.
hey man i havnt posted here for a while but gotta chime in on this one , in aus they allow 250 2 strokes in the lites class with some restrictions but they dont dominate at all , not even in the sand
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bsharkey 6/4/2016 4:43pm
6/4/2016 4:43pm
Kx125rider wrote:
From mxa: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137858/s1200_Screenshot_2016_06_04_at_12.40.57.jpg[/img]
From mxa:


wow there dyno must be at 8000ft elevation
ML512
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ML512 6/4/2016 4:52pm
6/4/2016 4:52pm
Kx125rider wrote:
From mxa: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137858/s1200_Screenshot_2016_06_04_at_12.40.57.jpg[/img]
From mxa:


bsharkey wrote:
wow there dyno must be at 8000ft elevation
I believe that quite there is from a few years ago... 2013 or previous...
Crush
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Crush 6/4/2016 5:15pm
6/4/2016 5:15pm
Kx125rider wrote:
From mxa: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137858/s1200_Screenshot_2016_06_04_at_12.40.57.jpg[/img]
From mxa:


We've had more than four years of really good riders on two strokes down here in the 250 class and they've not won.
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tempura 6/4/2016 5:21pm
6/4/2016 5:21pm
newmann wrote:
You really have to ask why??? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/04/137875/s1200_15at68.jpg[/img]
You really have to ask why???




And it will continue as long as people are attending races and buying the 4strokes.
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IceMan446 6/4/2016 5:24pm
6/4/2016 5:24pm
cali11 wrote:
The factory 250Fs are making more than that
colintrax wrote:
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more. Stock the 250fs are right at...
That's the Yamaha, the KTM 250 is breaking 50hp with the old model. Bet the 2017 model makes even more.
Stock the 250fs are right at or under 40hp, except the KTM and Yamaha.
However HP numbers don't mean much, it's the power spread. If you seriously think peak numbers mean much, try to ride your local track at 11,200 rpm WFO and nothing else. Not 11,201, or 11,199. Not half throttle. Wide open 11,200. Good luck.
Precisely why the Yamaha does so well. The power is all usable.

The two strokes would be hard pressed to compete with the fuel injected four strokes with the power and torque they have.
burn1986
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burn1986 6/4/2016 5:28pm
6/4/2016 5:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2016 5:34pm
Well, you know, the 150 (144 back then) was created to compete with the 250Fs but it was quickly shot down by the promoters (well, mainly the outdoor promoter at the time).

We know the 4s are better in every way than the 2s. You ride one and immediately you know that you can go fast on them. I saw in another post that one guy said "The 4s are the best racing machine made." Its true. They are more advanced, faster, and better in every way than the 2s.

So, what is the holdup in racing the most advanced racing machine against the antiquated 2stroke? Hmm, maybe the promoter is still not convinced. Or maybe the promoter has another reason.
Michael Scott 6/4/2016 6:36pm
6/4/2016 6:36pm
I believe a few teams in Canada weren't too happy with allowing a 250 two stroke in the 250 class... Mainly the red, green, and yellow teams
Charper732
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Charper732 6/4/2016 7:04pm
6/4/2016 7:04pm
The restriction of 2-strokes is not because of the horsepower...Its the EPA.

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