250T or 450??

Panic_Rev
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1/22/2018 8:20am
What you really want is a 350, you just don't know it yet.

MPJC
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1/22/2018 8:31am
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune the bike to run however you like, depending on your riding style. But really, it seems to me that you're overthinking this. I have both a 250 2t and 250f and I get around the track at more or less the same speed (quite slowly) regardless of which one I'm on. Whichever I'm on, I get used to it and enjoy it thoroughly. I'm surprised that you find the 250f lacking. I think it has plenty of power, and is easy to ride in the woods. In my case, any limitations are due to the rider, not the bike (and I suspect that is true in most cases). But what the hell, if you have the cash, then you might as well get what you really want, and nobody can tell you what that is.
yz133rider
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1/22/2018 8:44am
MPJC wrote:
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune...
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune the bike to run however you like, depending on your riding style. But really, it seems to me that you're overthinking this. I have both a 250 2t and 250f and I get around the track at more or less the same speed (quite slowly) regardless of which one I'm on. Whichever I'm on, I get used to it and enjoy it thoroughly. I'm surprised that you find the 250f lacking. I think it has plenty of power, and is easy to ride in the woods. In my case, any limitations are due to the rider, not the bike (and I suspect that is true in most cases). But what the hell, if you have the cash, then you might as well get what you really want, and nobody can tell you what that is.
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or 250 either its just not as much of a difference as we want to make it out to be when you get down to it.
ZXMustang
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1/22/2018 8:49am
MPJC wrote:
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune...
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune the bike to run however you like, depending on your riding style. But really, it seems to me that you're overthinking this. I have both a 250 2t and 250f and I get around the track at more or less the same speed (quite slowly) regardless of which one I'm on. Whichever I'm on, I get used to it and enjoy it thoroughly. I'm surprised that you find the 250f lacking. I think it has plenty of power, and is easy to ride in the woods. In my case, any limitations are due to the rider, not the bike (and I suspect that is true in most cases). But what the hell, if you have the cash, then you might as well get what you really want, and nobody can tell you what that is.
yz133rider wrote:
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or...
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or 250 either its just not as much of a difference as we want to make it out to be when you get down to it.
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that. I just want the lazy man's bike that I can "grow into". I know I wont be running side by side with A riders. But I like I said earlier, I want the bike to make up for my short comings. Like hitting the rev limiter or hitting N on the face of a jump. I could probably leave a 450 in 2nd or 3rd and run a whole race in one gear. I'd also be inclined to install one of those auto clutch setups for the peak of laziness. Im about having fun, and being fast on the straights. Then most likely rolling all the jumps except the kiddy table tops.

The Shop

yz133rider
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1/22/2018 8:53am
MPJC wrote:
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune...
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune the bike to run however you like, depending on your riding style. But really, it seems to me that you're overthinking this. I have both a 250 2t and 250f and I get around the track at more or less the same speed (quite slowly) regardless of which one I'm on. Whichever I'm on, I get used to it and enjoy it thoroughly. I'm surprised that you find the 250f lacking. I think it has plenty of power, and is easy to ride in the woods. In my case, any limitations are due to the rider, not the bike (and I suspect that is true in most cases). But what the hell, if you have the cash, then you might as well get what you really want, and nobody can tell you what that is.
yz133rider wrote:
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or...
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or 250 either its just not as much of a difference as we want to make it out to be when you get down to it.
ZXMustang wrote:
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that...
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that. I just want the lazy man's bike that I can "grow into". I know I wont be running side by side with A riders. But I like I said earlier, I want the bike to make up for my short comings. Like hitting the rev limiter or hitting N on the face of a jump. I could probably leave a 450 in 2nd or 3rd and run a whole race in one gear. I'd also be inclined to install one of those auto clutch setups for the peak of laziness. Im about having fun, and being fast on the straights. Then most likely rolling all the jumps except the kiddy table tops.
I found i shifted less on my 350 than my previous 450

Your mind is pretty well made up get the 450.

A 250 2 stroke isn't what your describing at all.
MPJC
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1/22/2018 8:57am
MPJC wrote:
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune...
You could always get a KTM 250 2t, and if you find you want more power, put a 300 kit on it. You can then tune the bike to run however you like, depending on your riding style. But really, it seems to me that you're overthinking this. I have both a 250 2t and 250f and I get around the track at more or less the same speed (quite slowly) regardless of which one I'm on. Whichever I'm on, I get used to it and enjoy it thoroughly. I'm surprised that you find the 250f lacking. I think it has plenty of power, and is easy to ride in the woods. In my case, any limitations are due to the rider, not the bike (and I suspect that is true in most cases). But what the hell, if you have the cash, then you might as well get what you really want, and nobody can tell you what that is.
yz133rider wrote:
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or...
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or 250 either its just not as much of a difference as we want to make it out to be when you get down to it.
ZXMustang wrote:
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that...
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that. I just want the lazy man's bike that I can "grow into". I know I wont be running side by side with A riders. But I like I said earlier, I want the bike to make up for my short comings. Like hitting the rev limiter or hitting N on the face of a jump. I could probably leave a 450 in 2nd or 3rd and run a whole race in one gear. I'd also be inclined to install one of those auto clutch setups for the peak of laziness. Im about having fun, and being fast on the straights. Then most likely rolling all the jumps except the kiddy table tops.
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for opinions. What makes even less sense is the concern about hitting the rev limiter on the face of a jump when you'll be rolling all the jumps.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that being maximally lazy is not maximally fun.
defeatist45
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1/22/2018 9:15am
kzizok wrote:
Stuff a 1000cc street bike motor in it.
Otherwise it won't be very impressive
jbrass715
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1/22/2018 9:30am
I had a 15 crf450, raced it and woods rode and had fun, ease of power made me lazy. Now i have a cr250 2 stroke, love the handling and love the challenge of being slightly under power. makes me work harder in the corners and slowly becoming a better rider i feel. But i have honestly spent more on maint to my 2 stroke but the overall investment is still way less than new bike price. But that 18 450 Honda e start sure looks nice after acl surgery
ZXMustang
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1/22/2018 9:35am
yz133rider wrote:
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or...
Agreed with this sentiment also. I was fastest for longest on a 350 but really im not very much slower on say a 90s 125 or 250 either its just not as much of a difference as we want to make it out to be when you get down to it.
ZXMustang wrote:
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that...
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that. I just want the lazy man's bike that I can "grow into". I know I wont be running side by side with A riders. But I like I said earlier, I want the bike to make up for my short comings. Like hitting the rev limiter or hitting N on the face of a jump. I could probably leave a 450 in 2nd or 3rd and run a whole race in one gear. I'd also be inclined to install one of those auto clutch setups for the peak of laziness. Im about having fun, and being fast on the straights. Then most likely rolling all the jumps except the kiddy table tops.
MPJC wrote:
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for...
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for opinions. What makes even less sense is the concern about hitting the rev limiter on the face of a jump when you'll be rolling all the jumps.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that being maximally lazy is not maximally fun.
There is no need to troll. I’m presenting my wants and needs, but they are not tied to any specific model or type. That’s what I’m asking you guys for. The others seem to get it. Hell its just been said that the riding experience I’m describing is not what I would get from a 250ts. That’s it. Sounds like a 450 is it. Thanks to those who helped. And again no need to troll here. I’m open to all opinions but I’m not obligated to agree with them.
ZXMustang
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1/22/2018 9:36am
jbrass715 wrote:
I had a 15 crf450, raced it and woods rode and had fun, ease of power made me lazy. Now i have a cr250 2 stroke...
I had a 15 crf450, raced it and woods rode and had fun, ease of power made me lazy. Now i have a cr250 2 stroke, love the handling and love the challenge of being slightly under power. makes me work harder in the corners and slowly becoming a better rider i feel. But i have honestly spent more on maint to my 2 stroke but the overall investment is still way less than new bike price. But that 18 450 Honda e start sure looks nice after acl surgery
That was another luxury item I want. Not a deal breaker if I were to get a new bike though.
jeffro503
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1/22/2018 9:43am
Man.....I gotta say , there is a certain thing here that gets said a lot , that really isn't true for some of us.....

" What do you plan to do? Play ride , get a 250 2 stroke.....if you want to race , get the 450 "

OK....first off , not everyone rides the same. Every single one of us is different , our goals are different , and what we want to ride in a practice day or race day , is up to that individual rider.

My experience over the past 3+ years. After re-discovering 2 strokes ( 125's and 250's ) , I myself just have a LOT more fun riding them on the tracks. That fun , translates into how you feel on the track , and if you are having fun , you find yourself pushing harder. I have found out that I am running the same speeds against the guys I ride / race against on my 250 2 stroke....as I did my 450. The only difference is , now that I've re-learned how to ride one , my moto's are better in every way. I sure as hell can ride harder , longer , and sometimes faster on my 250 2 stroke , then I could on my 450's. I'm also smiling ear to ear.....which to me , is important.

Just my $0.02
OUMX117
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1/22/2018 10:09am
I just purchased a 2017 FC450 (under 10 hour bike, still on factory tires). I have been riding 2 strokes since I broke both my wrists in 2012. My previous bikes are a 2007 CR250 and a WR300 Husky. I have only ridden the FC450 one time and I already feel smoother and faster than I did on my CR250 on a track. I also had a lot more fun. The new Husky/KTMs are so light and turn so well. I am very very happy with my decisions, but like others have said, it's up to you. Based on how you've described you ideal riding experience, I'd recommend a new white or orange 450. Although it's hard to go wrong with any of them in today's market.

Disclaimer: I'm an old(32) washed up, never was B MX racer/rider. Therefore my credibility on the interwebs is almost nonexistent.
ZXMustang
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1/22/2018 10:19am
OUMX117 wrote:
I just purchased a 2017 FC450 (under 10 hour bike, still on factory tires). I have been riding 2 strokes since I broke both my wrists...
I just purchased a 2017 FC450 (under 10 hour bike, still on factory tires). I have been riding 2 strokes since I broke both my wrists in 2012. My previous bikes are a 2007 CR250 and a WR300 Husky. I have only ridden the FC450 one time and I already feel smoother and faster than I did on my CR250 on a track. I also had a lot more fun. The new Husky/KTMs are so light and turn so well. I am very very happy with my decisions, but like others have said, it's up to you. Based on how you've described you ideal riding experience, I'd recommend a new white or orange 450. Although it's hard to go wrong with any of them in today's market.

Disclaimer: I'm an old(32) washed up, never was B MX racer/rider. Therefore my credibility on the interwebs is almost nonexistent.
I appreciate your opinions. The FC and the SX-F are at the top of the list. So would be like a CRF450R or X and YZ450F or FX. I think they all have Estart nowadays.
Rockinar
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1/22/2018 10:37am
it sounds like what you really need is a Grom. I don't think MX bikes are you you.
ZXMustang
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1/22/2018 10:50am
Rockinar wrote:
it sounds like what you really need is a Grom. I don't think MX bikes are you you.
The troll tendencies are strong on this forum, that's for sure.
MPJC
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1/22/2018 11:10am
ZXMustang wrote:
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that...
Of course. I would probably turn the same lap times on a new 450 vs my 1995 RM 125 I used to race. I get that. I just want the lazy man's bike that I can "grow into". I know I wont be running side by side with A riders. But I like I said earlier, I want the bike to make up for my short comings. Like hitting the rev limiter or hitting N on the face of a jump. I could probably leave a 450 in 2nd or 3rd and run a whole race in one gear. I'd also be inclined to install one of those auto clutch setups for the peak of laziness. Im about having fun, and being fast on the straights. Then most likely rolling all the jumps except the kiddy table tops.
MPJC wrote:
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for...
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for opinions. What makes even less sense is the concern about hitting the rev limiter on the face of a jump when you'll be rolling all the jumps.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that being maximally lazy is not maximally fun.
ZXMustang wrote:
There is no need to troll. I’m presenting my wants and needs, but they are not tied to any specific model or type. That’s what I’m...
There is no need to troll. I’m presenting my wants and needs, but they are not tied to any specific model or type. That’s what I’m asking you guys for. The others seem to get it. Hell its just been said that the riding experience I’m describing is not what I would get from a 250ts. That’s it. Sounds like a 450 is it. Thanks to those who helped. And again no need to troll here. I’m open to all opinions but I’m not obligated to agree with them.
Not intended as a troll. You presented as posing a choice between a 450 and a 250 2t, but it seems clear that the 250 was never really a serious option given what you know you want (obviously, if you are averse to shifting, a 2t isn't for you). You also did present a fear of hitting the rev limiter on a jump as a serious consideration, and then stated that you'd likely be rolling the jumps. Surely you can see how this might strike one as confused. Perhaps I'm being a bit of a dick by pointing this out, but that doesn't constitute trolling. But I'm not about to quibble too much about what constitutes "trolling" as that's something a troll would do. I shall now ride away on my Grom.
ZXMustang
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1/22/2018 11:13am
MPJC wrote:
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for...
Why are you asking for opinions? When offered opinions, you counter by telling us exactly what you want, which seems to render redundant the asking for opinions. What makes even less sense is the concern about hitting the rev limiter on the face of a jump when you'll be rolling all the jumps.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that being maximally lazy is not maximally fun.
ZXMustang wrote:
There is no need to troll. I’m presenting my wants and needs, but they are not tied to any specific model or type. That’s what I’m...
There is no need to troll. I’m presenting my wants and needs, but they are not tied to any specific model or type. That’s what I’m asking you guys for. The others seem to get it. Hell its just been said that the riding experience I’m describing is not what I would get from a 250ts. That’s it. Sounds like a 450 is it. Thanks to those who helped. And again no need to troll here. I’m open to all opinions but I’m not obligated to agree with them.
MPJC wrote:
Not intended as a troll. You presented as posing a choice between a 450 and a 250 2t, but it seems clear that the 250 was...
Not intended as a troll. You presented as posing a choice between a 450 and a 250 2t, but it seems clear that the 250 was never really a serious option given what you know you want (obviously, if you are averse to shifting, a 2t isn't for you). You also did present a fear of hitting the rev limiter on a jump as a serious consideration, and then stated that you'd likely be rolling the jumps. Surely you can see how this might strike one as confused. Perhaps I'm being a bit of a dick by pointing this out, but that doesn't constitute trolling. But I'm not about to quibble too much about what constitutes "trolling" as that's something a troll would do. I shall now ride away on my Grom.
The whole rolling every jump is very much in jest. I would like to feel confident in hitting anything on the track. But I dont want to be singing at the top of the gear on my 250f trying to get myself over it, with the possibility that I could hit redline and drop the front end, ending in a huge get off. I would be happy blipping it at the last second to get some air, and not having to really work for it. But honestly I will be rolling jumps. Not all of them hopefully.
Rockinar
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1/22/2018 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/22/2018 1:20pm
ZXMustang wrote:
The whole rolling every jump is very much in jest. I would like to feel confident in hitting anything on the track. But I dont want...
The whole rolling every jump is very much in jest. I would like to feel confident in hitting anything on the track. But I dont want to be singing at the top of the gear on my 250f trying to get myself over it, with the possibility that I could hit redline and drop the front end, ending in a huge get off. I would be happy blipping it at the last second to get some air, and not having to really work for it. But honestly I will be rolling jumps. Not all of them hopefully.
"I'd also be inclined to install one of those auto clutch setups for the peak of laziness."

"But I dont want to be singing at the top of the gear on my 250f trying to get myself over it, with the possibility that I could hit redline and drop the front end, ending in a huge get off."

"But honestly I will be rolling jumps."


I change my mind. A Grom would be too much work for you. Honda has a scooter called a Metropolitan. You should look into that. No mixing oil, has auto transmission, no shifting, no big get offs possible, no accidental neutrals, you can lug it around in the same gear all day, has a belt so no messing with yucky chain lube. You just pull up to the pump, put gas in it and go. Its a luxury.

It's meets everything on your list.

cody41
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1/22/2018 1:24pm
If long term durability is your concern then a 2016 + ktm is your worst option. Stick to yamaha or honda.
1/22/2018 2:48pm
250-2t makes you really focus on riding; line choices, braking points, gear choice and clutch skill are all critical to keep you moving. Make a mistake, you have to figure out how to rebound quickly. Obviously with a 450, you can be much lazier and sort of just "ride through" some things.

YZ250 is a good platform; great suspension, good brakes, reliable as an anvil. Something a lot of people don't know, you can adjust the timing to your liking, add or take away some punch.

The 16+ KTMs are very good as well; AER fork is good, more bottom end, and adjustable powervalve is mint. Brakes and some fit and finish items are much better, but handling and motor wise, I'd say it's almost a draw.

As some others mentioned, buy a KTM SX250, buy a spare 18 inch wheel, 300kit and a pipe, pretty hard combo to beat. I personally have 18 and 19 setup for my YZ now, and FWW/X CDI, and it's plenty to haul me around MX tracks to train and to race enduros.

If you plan on really racing, I'd go 450. Minimal maintenance, better for starts, all of them good right out of the box.
JWACK
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1/22/2018 4:56pm
If you want a bike you can putt around on and still have fun buy the 450.
If you want a bike that will challenge you to ride it and thrill you, buy the 250.

Or man up and buy a 500 two stroke.!
1/22/2018 5:09pm
Motofinne wrote:
The 2017 and 2018 SX 250 is an amazing machine. I got to ride the 2018 SX 250 at a demo day last summer and it...
The 2017 and 2018 SX 250 is an amazing machine. I got to ride the 2018 SX 250 at a demo day last summer and it was the most fun that i have ever had on a MX track.

But it's still a competitive bike against the 450s. Yeah you will suffer on the starts but other than that, you should be able to keep up with 450s without problems on most tracks.

I would pick a SX or TC over a YZ any day.

My next bike will be a SX 250.
No offense, but I highly disagree that a 250 2T is not at a disadvantage anywhere but the start. Put the same rider on both bikes and he will be faster on the 450 unless there is something wrong with him. Also more power to get you out of tough situations or make up for mistakes. It is simply the better racing machine in current form. I was a 2 stroke hold out racing pro class in early 00's until I was getting passed down straights and couldn't turn the throttle any further. I wish the four strokes never took over, but I certainly have no desire to go back to a 2 stroke for as long as I am racing. If you just ride for fun, then who cares.

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