250F blow ups at Nationals

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6/5/2018 1:08 AM

I wonder why the Pro Circuit Kawasaki bikes are the mostly the ones who seem to always have engine blow up issues at Nationals...happened a few times last year and happening again this year. Seems to be rarely anything happening to the Star Yamahas, Geico Hondas, Rockstar Huskies, JGR Suzukis or TLD KTMs....are the KXF250F's just not strong enough to handle additional power despite probably having stronger aftermarket internals?

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

6/5/2018 1:10 AM

Its hard to say without knowing what broke. For all we know it could have been an assembly error.

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6/5/2018 1:34 AM

Yeah I admit it is kinda strange that these last two seasons PC Kawi has started out with bike malfunctions but if you remember 2016 it was the Star Yamahas that had bike troubles when both Martins had smoking bikes for more than one race and we all remember Moosecans KTM seized at Ironman when he was fighting for the championship.

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6/5/2018 1:38 AM

If you watched the GPs on the weekend TKO bike expired both motos....

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6/5/2018 1:42 AM

Did nt RJ Hampshire have 4 engines let go on him last year on geico . Tbh with the HP and especially the revs the 250 f teams are using to get the HP .I am surprised there is nt alot more bike s failing . it's such a fine margin .between not enough power Vs being 100 % reliable.

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6/5/2018 1:44 AM

brycepdh wrote:

If you watched the GPs on the weekend TKO bike expired both motos....

And Beaton's had a loud pop off the take off when he crashed.

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6/5/2018 1:44 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah I admit it is kinda strange that these last two seasons PC Kawi has started out with bike malfunctions but if you remember 2016 it was the Star Yamahas that had bike troubles when both Martins had smoking bikes for more than one race and we all remember Moosecans KTM seized at Ironman when he was fighting for the championship.

Plus zacko had 3 or 4 bike dnf s that year .I am nearly sure

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6/5/2018 1:47 AM

brycepdh wrote:

If you watched the GPs on the weekend TKO bike expired both motos....

DoubleA wrote:

And Beaton's had a loud pop off the take off when he crashed.

If you go on the Beaton thread you will see that I got confirmation from his close circle that something wrong went with his bike to make him endo mid air but another poster has said that the team has said on instagram there were nothing wrong with the bike and no technical issues. Which is weird because everyone trackside said there was a loud pop.

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6/5/2018 2:05 AM

brycepdh wrote:

If you go on the Beaton thread you will see that I got confirmation from his close circle that something wrong went with his bike to make him endo mid air but another poster has said that the team has said on instagram there were nothing wrong with the bike and no technical issues. Which is weird because everyone trackside said there was a loud pop.

It for sure went pop no idea what from though, maybe it was something silly they missed and are incredibly embarrassed from it?

Or maybe false neutral and it backfired?


Found the comment the Team put on instagram.
Photo

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6/5/2018 2:09 AM

DoubleA wrote:

And Beaton's had a loud pop off the take off when he crashed.

brycepdh wrote:

If you go on the Beaton thread you will see that I got confirmation from his close circle that something wrong went with his bike to make him endo mid air but another poster has said that the team has said on instagram there were nothing wrong with the bike and no technical issues. Which is weird because everyone trackside said there was a loud pop.

DoubleA wrote:

It for sure went pop no idea what from though, maybe it was something silly they missed and are incredibly embarrassed from it?

Or maybe false neutral and it backfired?


Found the comment the Team put on instagram.
Photo

I'm not saying you're wrong but i can't see a false neutral happening on that jump. They are wide open through that sweeper before the jump and its a really long take off so he would wide open in a high gear already.

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6/5/2018 2:13 AM

brimx153 wrote:

Did nt RJ Hampshire have 4 engines let go on him last year on geico . Tbh with the HP and especially the revs the 250 f teams are using to get the HP .I am surprised there is nt alot more bike s failing . it's such a fine margin .between not enough power Vs being 100 % reliable.

J Mart lost a motor or 2 last year as well,

PC have always pushed the limit, and this happens sometimes,

Most teams have had a bad run, Team HOnda lost a heap of motors at southwick one year,

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6/5/2018 9:30 AM

Osborne in 2016 had quite a few mechanicals on his Husky too. And yes, 2017 Geico had a lot of engine failures. It happens, they are all trying to ring out the max HP on those bikes.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

6/5/2018 9:36 AM

I think the kawi is showing its age. In order to be competitive they are having to push it really far. That motor is the same since when 2010 essentially?

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6/5/2018 9:38 AM

yz133rider wrote:

I think the kawi is showing its age. In order to be competitive they are having to push it really far. That motor is the same since when 2010 essentially?

250 & 450 both have had the same motors for 8-9 years. Pretty incredible actually.

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6/5/2018 10:50 AM

Photo
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Take it to the limit, one more time!

6/5/2018 11:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/5/2018 11:29 AM

yz133rider wrote:

I think the kawi is showing its age. In order to be competitive they are having to push it really far. That motor is the same since when 2010 essentially?

the kawi was new in 17, cases and all, (and the 450 in 16, with again being new for 19)
apart from last weekend, i dont think they have had a failure all year, but did have a few last year, early in the season,

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6/5/2018 11:45 AM

scott_nz wrote:

the kawi was new in 17, cases and all, (and the 450 in 16, with again being new for 19)
apart from last weekend, i dont think they have had a failure all year, but did have a few last year, early in the season,

True and a lot of the PC Kawi failures in recent years were traced back to electrical problems, which is a little different than blowing an engine.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

6/5/2018 11:52 AM

hamncheeze wrote:

True and a lot of the PC Kawi failures in recent years were traced back to electrical problems, which is a little different than blowing an engine.

Sarcasm maybe? Didn't you know, it's always an electrical problem.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

6/5/2018 12:17 PM

I think it was 2011 or 2012, where Factory Honda was doing complete motor swaps after practice and between motos just to be sure it would last.

It's crazy to think of the modifications and how are those motors are ridden. I look at my stock 450 and see 84 hours on the meter and think "It'll be good to the 100 mark no problem" and factory teams are replacing after 45 minutes. haha

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6/5/2018 12:21 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I wonder why the Pro Circuit Kawasaki bikes are the mostly the ones who seem to always have engine blow up issues at Nationals...happened a few times last year and happening again this year. Seems to be rarely anything happening to the Star Yamahas, Geico Hondas, Rockstar Huskies, JGR Suzukis or TLD KTMs....are the KXF250F's just not strong enough to handle additional power despite probably having stronger aftermarket internals?

i think of all teams Mitch pushes the limits on all the parts in the bikes to get them to the highest level. unfortunately i think the KX motor is in a simliar group of the RMZ where they are struggling for power to keep up with the YZ and KTM.

KTM does it with higher rpm and YZ does it with the reversed engine

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"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti

6/5/2018 12:57 PM

You can do endless hours of testing, but sometimes you can't replicate certain scenarios. Rider misses a shift, bangs off the revlimiter for just a split too long, overrevs too much in the air, etc.

You can pour all the money you want it, sometimes things just happen. PC issues last year were a supplier issue, so could have easily been that again. GEICO engine issues last year were worrisome, but again, we're pumping nearly 50+ hp from a 250F at high RPMs, things are bound to get fragile at some point.

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6/5/2018 1:03 PM

The worst was when they first switched from 125’s to 250F’s...those things were lucky to make it from the truck to staging without grenading, lol...

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6/5/2018 1:37 PM

well there's one case *for* the 450 class.

the dang 250 four bangers can't even hold the motor together for a full moto

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6/5/2018 6:29 PM

yz133rider wrote:

I think the kawi is showing its age. In order to be competitive they are having to push it really far. That motor is the same since when 2010 essentially?

kb228 wrote:

250 & 450 both have had the same motors for 8-9 years. Pretty incredible actually.

Woah really?! Jeez...

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6/5/2018 7:43 PM

Calm down... Privateers have plenty of engine failures as well. Consider how hard the factory riders are pushing these bikes, and how deep the tracks are groomed and watered.

I remember hearing about Anderson and Osborne doing burnouts at Vegas this year, and only the 450 expired.

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6/5/2018 8:16 PM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah I admit it is kinda strange that these last two seasons PC Kawi has started out with bike malfunctions but if you remember 2016 it was the Star Yamahas that had bike troubles when both Martins had smoking bikes for more than one race and we all remember Moosecans KTM seized at Ironman when he was fighting for the championship.

Yes, it was highpoint. I was there.

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6/6/2018 7:45 AM

The Pro Circuit slogan is "We race" not "we go out there to back it down a notch".

Many manufacturers bikes pop. As mentioned, double pop for TKO last weekend. Husqpoppa.

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6/6/2018 7:51 AM

I know of a factory rider who went through 7 motors in one week. Come to find out , they had a bad batch of main bearings that came through. Sometimes a team can have something like this happen , and it's kind of out of their hands until they figure out what the culprit is.

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6/6/2018 9:12 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah I admit it is kinda strange that these last two seasons PC Kawi has started out with bike malfunctions but if you remember 2016 it was the Star Yamahas that had bike troubles when both Martins had smoking bikes for more than one race and we all remember Moosecans KTM seized at Ironman when he was fighting for the championship.

RJMX834 wrote:

Yes, it was highpoint. I was there.

I thought Mooscan had a fuel pump quit?

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

6/7/2018 10:06 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/7/2018 10:07 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I wonder why the Pro Circuit Kawasaki bikes are the mostly the ones who seem to always have engine blow up issues at Nationals...happened a few times last year and happening again this year. Seems to be rarely anything happening to the Star Yamahas, Geico Hondas, Rockstar Huskies, JGR Suzukis or TLD KTMs....are the KXF250F's just not strong enough to handle additional power despite probably having stronger aftermarket internals?

Jeremy Martin last year 250 honda the year before Jermey Martin 250 yamaha along with a TLD KTM. The 250s are pushed so hard.

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