250 in the 450 class

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5/7/2018 2:37 PM

Are you allowed to ride a 250f in the 450f class in supercross? Seems like many of these dominant 250 riders like Webb etc would kill it on a 250. I know it wouldn’t happen because teams need riders for the 450 class but curious if even allowed.

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5/7/2018 2:44 PM

Yes

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5/7/2018 2:46 PM

Yes you can, no they wouldn't.

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5/7/2018 2:50 PM

They would get destroyed on the start. Especially if it was a longer start.

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5/7/2018 2:53 PM

Helder wrote:

Yes you can, no they wouldn't.

False. Someone did it this year; trying to remember who... Pretty sure it was a 250 West guy that ran the 450 class in one of the East races...

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Positively, absolutely 110% obsessed with anything MOTO.

5/7/2018 2:54 PM

I can't remember his name but one guy made a main event this year on his 250.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

5/7/2018 2:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/7/2018 2:56 PM

OH! It was Justin Starling at Tampa. Finished 18th

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Positively, absolutely 110% obsessed with anything MOTO.

5/7/2018 3:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/7/2018 3:20 PM

You can set a fast lap time in a 250, but trying to cut underneath a 450 and still hit the triple is another story. That's the reason a lot of the guys who tested 350s and loved them ended up switching back to a 450. Gotta have that 450 grunt to make moves with other 450s on the track.

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5/7/2018 3:28 PM

I don’t know. It’s a lighter bike and short starts in many instances. I bet some of these kids could kill it on a 250 in 450 class. I know they would. You can see with lap times. It’s so odd to see how bad some struggle on a 450 but tear it up on a 250f.

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5/7/2018 4:23 PM

level wrote:

I don’t know. It’s a lighter bike and short starts in many instances. I bet some of these kids could kill it on a 250 in 450 class. I know they would. You can see with lap times. It’s so odd to see how bad some struggle on a 450 but tear it up on a 250f.

whistling
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Ed Johnson

5/7/2018 4:27 PM

level wrote:

I don’t know. It’s a lighter bike and short starts in many instances. I bet some of these kids could kill it on a 250 in 450 class. I know they would. You can see with lap times. It’s so odd to see how bad some struggle on a 450 but tear it up on a 250f.

lostboy819 wrote: whistling

"I know they would" referring to killing it in the 450 class on a 250. How do you KNOW that? And what is your definition of "killing it"?? You have to remember these kids on 250's are only racing SX against half the field. Now they are going up to 450's where they have to race EVERY one EVERY week. Sure sometimes a 250 rider will have a faster lap but they qualify and race before the 450's so the track is normally easier for them. I don't see very many if any 250 riders moving up and killing it against the top guys on 450's lap after lap for a whole race.

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5/7/2018 5:03 PM

level wrote:

I don’t know. It’s a lighter bike and short starts in many instances. I bet some of these kids could kill it on a 250 in 450 class. I know they would. You can see with lap times. It’s so odd to see how bad some struggle on a 450 but tear it up on a 250f.

250s csn already do that in the 250 class why cant they vs 450s?

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5/7/2018 7:41 PM

What’s there to debate? It’s simple math. Lap times = indisputable evidence the top 250 guys would smoke all but the very best 450 guys. Rider skill> Bike.

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5/8/2018 10:33 AM

250 East/West riders have been racing the 450 class on the opposite coast for many years.

Starling lines up on the inside and gets good starts on his 250

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5/9/2018 2:51 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/9/2018 2:59 PM

In the outdoor series where a 250f might do even better due to being more manageable over the longer race distance, the 450 class four stroke displacement limits are set at 251cc-450cc and bore must be the same as the homologated model. So no 250f's in the 450 class. Things that make you go hmmm.

Edit: Reading the 2016 rulebook for MX, cylinder overbores for homologated models were allowed to bring them up to the displacement limits for the class with approved "kits". So large overbored 250f's would be allowed. This allowance went away in the 2017 rules. Don't see the 2018 rulebook yet on AMA Pro's website yet.

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5/9/2018 2:59 PM

OldYZRider1 wrote:

In the outdoor series where a 250f might do even better due to being more manageable over the longer race distance, the 450 class four stroke displacement limits are set at 251cc-450cc and bore must be the same as the homologated model. So no 250f's in the 450 class. Things that make you go hmmm.

Edit: Reading the 2016 rulebook for MX, cylinder overbores for homologated models were allowed to bring them up to the displacement limits for the class with approved "kits". So large overbored 250f's would be allowed. This allowance went away in the 2017 rules. Don't see the 2018 rulebook yet on AMA Pro's website yet.

I would say the 250 would be at a bigger disadvantage outdoors where more of the 450 power can be used. The only place I could see them on equal footing or even tip in favour of the 250 would be arena cross.

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5/9/2018 3:47 PM

OldYZRider1 wrote:

In the outdoor series where a 250f might do even better due to being more manageable over the longer race distance, the 450 class four stroke displacement limits are set at 251cc-450cc and bore must be the same as the homologated model. So no 250f's in the 450 class. Things that make you go hmmm.

Edit: Reading the 2016 rulebook for MX, cylinder overbores for homologated models were allowed to bring them up to the displacement limits for the class with approved "kits". So large overbored 250f's would be allowed. This allowance went away in the 2017 rules. Don't see the 2018 rulebook yet on AMA Pro's website yet.

Andy_Greenney wrote:

I would say the 250 would be at a bigger disadvantage outdoors where more of the 450 power can be used. The only place I could see them on equal footing or even tip in favour of the 250 would be arena cross.

I did some looking at total race times between the two classes to compare them. It's difficult to compare as they're not racing the track at the same time and don't always run the same number of laps in the moto but at some tracks there's very little difference between the classes times and as to be expected second moto times can be very similar. I feel that some of the fast 250 guys, if given the opportunity to ride a 250, could definitely get podiums at some rounds. I definitely think some guys could place higher in the standings campaigning a 250 and possibly earn more money than taking the existing 450 route which we've seen destroy too many really good racers careers and bodies.

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5/9/2018 7:29 PM

I dont see why its allowed
Isn't the whole point to see who can go the fastest
On a 450
And who can go the fastest on a 250 ?
If they had done this in the old 500
Class the 250 would have smoked it
But the point was to see who was fastest on the 500 no ,?

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5/10/2018 2:31 AM

Andy_Greenney wrote:

I would say the 250 would be at a bigger disadvantage outdoors where more of the 450 power can be used. The only place I could see them on equal footing or even tip in favour of the 250 would be arena cross.

Tell that to RV

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5/10/2018 2:38 AM

Helder wrote:

Yes you can, no they wouldn't.

F150Motocrosser wrote:

False. Someone did it this year; trying to remember who... Pretty sure it was a 250 West guy that ran the 450 class in one of the East races...

What dominant 250 rider like Webb etc. run a 250 in the 450 class?

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5/10/2018 7:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/10/2018 7:49 AM

Helder wrote:

Yes you can, no they wouldn't.

F150Motocrosser wrote:

False. Someone did it this year; trying to remember who... Pretty sure it was a 250 West guy that ran the 450 class in one of the East races...

Helder wrote:

What dominant 250 rider like Webb etc. run a 250 in the 450 class?

Webb ect are 450 riders.

Financially top 250 RIDERS do not need to race the opposite coast. Privateers are trying to make a living and opposite coast 450 class pays a LOT MORE.

Some races need to have all 40 gates in the night show filled so the AMA/Feld appreciate it when a good 250 rider fills the gate.

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