25+2 amateur race format - who’s in?

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10/31/2021 7:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/31/2021 7:41 PM

Who would be in for a 25+2 race format on the east coast? Probably budds or tomahawk.

4 classes.
A,b,c,d - each gets 2x 25+2 Moto.

If any of the classes have over 40 riders just split the class and have for example C(1) and C(2)

This format could handle 7 total classes so 3 classes could be split total, and still get done in a timely fashion and get everyone a hell of a race day.


I want full gates and long motos. Who would be in? I’ll pitch it to the owners if there’s some support.


There won’t be a class hand drawn and designed for every single rider ever.


But with full gates and enter the actual best class for yourself you’re bound to have 10-15 guys to battle with!

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10/31/2021 9:28 PM

they do this at michigan vintage races. my dad who is 70 plus loves it. you get one sight lap and one moto.

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11/1/2021 4:59 AM

I'd be down for Tomahawk for sure

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Mediocre Film Guy

11/1/2021 5:25 AM

I would be highly interested in this at either location.

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11/1/2021 5:34 AM

How about a small series up and down the east coast, Southwick, budds, tomahawk, Silver dollar, Fast Farms for example. No Mx Sports needed

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11/1/2021 5:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/1/2021 5:52 AM

Oleary465 wrote:

How about a small series up and down the east coast, Southwick, budds, tomahawk, Silver dollar, Fast Farms for example. No Mx ...more

I’m in for any of this.

I want a real race - with large gates and minimal classes - so that it forces large gates.

Long motos - full gates - where starts , fitness, race iq, all matters

As opposed to a 4 lap race against 4 people in your class.


And this is what motocross is supposed to be. Anything less is something else.

The emx series do 25+2s at the pro tracks on pro weekends at the world stage.

We can handle it.

4 lap races are over. Let’s make motocross great again.

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11/1/2021 5:57 AM

Oleary465 wrote:

How about a small series up and down the east coast, Southwick, budds, tomahawk, Silver dollar, Fast Farms for example. No Mx ...more

yz133rider wrote:

I’m in for any of this.

I want a real race - with large gates and minimal classes - so that it forces large gates.

Long ...more

Sounds like just what you Americans need.

If you did 20+2 you should be able to get 3 races in. Wouldn’t that be better?

25+2 is a long old moto for an amateur. Remember the emx class is pretty much semi-pro/pros anyway.

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11/1/2021 5:59 AM

Some friends and I were kicking around the idea of something similar down here, but we were going to make it vet focused. Four classes (+30 / +40 / + 50 / +60), we just wanted legit 15 minute motos. The idea being practice at 9, first motos at 10, second motos at 11, awards by 12:30. Based on turnout, two of those classes would most likely run together, and with the compressed format you would only race one class. Get in, get out, get on with your day!!

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11/1/2021 6:00 AM

Oleary465 wrote:

How about a small series up and down the east coast, Southwick, budds, tomahawk, Silver dollar, Fast Farms for example. No Mx ...more

yz133rider wrote:

I’m in for any of this.

I want a real race - with large gates and minimal classes - so that it forces large gates.

Long ...more

luke11 wrote:

Sounds like just what you Americans need.

If you did 20+2 you should be able to get 3 races in. Wouldn’t that be better?

...more

I played out the math for a while and 25+2 can handle 7 separate classes - essentially 7 hours of racing total plus track work and any delays should fit in a day well.

I don’t want to cut it down any further because then it gets closer and closer to what it is already. Long motos. 2 per class. Done.

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11/1/2021 6:13 AM

mark_swart wrote:

Some friends and I were kicking around the idea of something similar down here, but we were going to make it vet focused. Four ...more

I think we need to lay off the age groups - and just go by class.

Age makes it too much like everyone gets their own class to me anyway.

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11/1/2021 6:36 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/1/2021 6:38 AM

mark_swart wrote:

Some friends and I were kicking around the idea of something similar down here, but we were going to make it vet focused. Four ...more

yz133rider wrote:

I think we need to lay off the age groups - and just go by class.

Age makes it too much like everyone gets their own class to ...more

The Masters series here already has that. I like your idea, run it by Jeff Yentzer too. He's always down to try new things at Doublin Gap. Also, check with Happy Ramblers, they could run it in conjunction with their flat track races. Let me know if you need contact numbers for them.

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11/1/2021 6:56 AM

yz133rider wrote:

Who would be in for a 25+2 race format on the east coast? Probably budds or tomahawk.

4 classes.
A,b,c,d - each gets 2x 25+2 ...more

That format on a natural terrain track would get me back on a moto start gate…

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11/1/2021 6:59 AM

yz133rider wrote:

Who would be in for a 25+2 race format on the east coast? Probably budds or tomahawk.

4 classes.
A,b,c,d - each gets 2x 25+2 ...more

Titan1 wrote:

That format on a natural terrain track would get me back on a moto start gate…

Tomahawk is as close to natural terrain as a track I’ve seen in many years. Massive track with maybe 8 total jumps. The hills, bumps, soil, and corners are the challenge there not the jumps.

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11/1/2021 7:01 AM

mark_swart wrote:

Some friends and I were kicking around the idea of something similar down here, but we were going to make it vet focused. Four ...more

yz133rider wrote:

I think we need to lay off the age groups - and just go by class.

Age makes it too much like everyone gets their own class to ...more

JBlain619 wrote:

The Masters series here already has that. I like your idea, run it by Jeff Yentzer too. He's always down to try new things at ...more

That’s the series I race, and I race with them because they do 6 laps which is at least a start compared to 4 lap races.

But still they have too many classes in my opinion and many of the gates have less than half full even with multiple classes on the same gate drop.


Having so many classes is entirely a joke.

The masters series is the closest I’ve found so far but still could be trimmed way down in my view.

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11/1/2021 7:05 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/1/2021 7:05 AM

yz133rider wrote:

That’s the series I race, and I race with them because they do 6 laps which is at least a start compared to 4 lap races.

But ...more

I agree, I don't know why they started adding so many classes. It took away from what was good about that series several years ago. Used to be able to run 4; 8 lap motos and be home before dinner!

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11/1/2021 7:08 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/1/2021 7:09 AM

Great idea… I raced an NESC 250/Pro class this summer at Southwick, just for the long motos! I”m 54 and still like to train and ride long motos….the 4 lap Vet motos are just a hole shot & hold on…. Sometimes I don’t even get into a groove until the 10-15 minute mark….

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11/1/2021 7:12 AM

sandman768 wrote:

Great idea… I raced an NESC 250/Pro class this summer at Southwick, just for the long motos! I”m 54 and still like to train ...more

That sounds awesome but I’m currently about 25 seconds per lap slower than a pro at tomahawk 2:05 for me and 1:40 for Stepek on the same day.

So lining up for a pro class for me is kind of not possible lol.

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11/1/2021 7:13 AM

sandman768 wrote:

Great idea… I raced an NESC 250/Pro class this summer at Southwick, just for the long motos! I”m 54 and still like to train ...more

I race NESC as well the problem is they do not use the leaders for the 20 minutes they use towards the back to ensure everyone is off track within the 20 mins. So Canning may be only on the track for 17 mins bc 20th place finishes the same amount of laps in 20 mins.

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11/1/2021 7:19 AM

Oleary465 wrote:

I race NESC as well the problem is they do not use the leaders for the 20 minutes they use towards the back to ensure everyone ...more

Still better than 4 laps….

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11/1/2021 7:20 AM

yz133rider wrote:

That sounds awesome but I’m currently about 25 seconds per lap slower than a pro at tomahawk 2:05 for me and 1:40 for Stepek ...more

I wouldn’t do that on a Hugh jump infested track. I stayed out of everyone’s way & got lapped at some point by the leaders…. Just like I did in 1995😂

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11/1/2021 10:13 AM

yz133rider wrote:

Who would be in for a 25+2 race format on the east coast? Probably budds or tomahawk.

4 classes.
A,b,c,d - each gets 2x 25+2 ...more

Titan1 wrote:

That format on a natural terrain track would get me back on a moto start gate…

yz133rider wrote:

Tomahawk is as close to natural terrain as a track I’ve seen in many years. Massive track with maybe 8 total jumps. The hills, ...more

I'd be in for anything at Tomahawk!

I wish more tracks were like Tomahawk with respect to terrain. I hate a track littered with jumps all over the place.

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'21 FC250
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'19 TC125

11/1/2021 12:03 PM

yz133rider wrote:

I think we need to lay off the age groups - and just go by class.

Age makes it too much like everyone gets their own class to ...more

I dunno, lots of Vet guys (myself included) have Zero desire to be on a track with the young guns.

I can still run Intermediate speed but I don't wanna be doing it with some 19 y/o kid who still believes he's the next Tomac and will break my leg for a 3rd place trophy to add to his resume to get 30% off from his graphics company next year.

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11/1/2021 12:09 PM

LungButter wrote:

I dunno, lots of Vet guys (myself included) have Zero desire to be on a track with the young guns.

I can still run ...more

I get what you’re saying but as soon as you start going down that rabbit hole isn’t that how we arrive at the current 1000 class and 4 lap format with 4 riders in each class?

I want to line up with 40 riders who are somewhat similar in speed and have an actual race. That isn’t going to happen if we give everyone their own hand crafted class that meets every individual criteria.

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11/1/2021 12:16 PM

yz133rider wrote:

I get what you’re saying but as soon as you start going down that rabbit hole isn’t that how we arrive at the current 1000 ...more

It's a slippery slope for sure.

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11/1/2021 12:26 PM

Why not race jday? Genuine question, aren’t they two 30’s? Their events look awesome, wish we had that caliber of event in the west but maybe more Offroad then you’re wanting?

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11/1/2021 12:33 PM

suspensionguy wrote:

Why not race jday? Genuine question, aren’t they two 30’s? Their events look awesome, wish we had that caliber of event in the ...more

We have NORCS, people seem to like their races/formats as they get 500+ guys per round....more than all but the biggest regional moto events in the NW.

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11/1/2021 12:34 PM

suspensionguy wrote:

Why not race jday? Genuine question, aren’t they two 30’s? Their events look awesome, wish we had that caliber of event in the ...more

A bit more off-road than I want. I want to race motocross and it sure seems motocross is supposed to be in the 30 minute Moto range - so just trying to make that happen.

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11/1/2021 3:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/1/2021 3:45 PM

It's a great idea in theory.
But 4 classes times 40 riders is 160 entries. Not near enough to make much money for the promoter, with the same amount of work and expenses. And with less entries, that means less people paying to get in the gate. Even with 7 classes of 40 thats only 280. And thats assuming you get full gates

LTM in Casey Illinois regularly gets 500 plus entries every race. Now add on the gate fees.

As I've said before in other posts about this, less classes and more laps is a great goal. Achieving that goal is very hard, almost impossible to do.

We let this genie (more classes) out of the bottle many years ago. Putting it back in is not going to be without pain for someone.

We've been at this a longtime. I pay the bills, so I know what is doable financially for the promoter.

But I also ride, and I hate the long race days and all the different classes as much as anyone.

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11/1/2021 3:50 PM

Indy mxer wrote:

It's a great idea in theory.
But 4 classes times 40 riders is 160 entries. Not near enough to make much money for the ...more

Using your example of 7 classes with 40 each at 280 that’s a solid turnout id think for the area I’m in.

Also I’d pay 2x the normal class rate for this format since it’s easily double the time on the track and wouldn’t need to race 2 or 3 classes just to feel like you’ve done something.


Racing 25+2 twice is plenty!

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11/1/2021 4:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/1/2021 4:25 PM

suspensionguy wrote:

Why not race jday? Genuine question, aren’t they two 30’s? Their events look awesome, wish we had that caliber of event in the ...more

LungButter wrote:

We have NORCS, people seem to like their races/formats as they get 500+ guys per round....more than all but the biggest ...more

I race all over the west, I’m familiar with NORCS and have raced them. Watch some Jday videos, their courses look fast and fun plus they do two 30 minute motos, actually washougal did this year but it conflicted with races that weekend. No series in the west does that, our racing scene is pretty bland and limited IMO. Maybe they just market the Jday racing well, looks great to me, maybe I can hit one when I drive out to race the Ironman gncc next year and maybe hit one of these 25+’s too, I like where yz133’s heads at.

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